Pacific?

[Stryker07]

I am all about the Pacific, and I know Midway is where Jason wants to go, but I can't help but think that something like New Guinea or the Solomons would be a better place to start. We've already got the P-40 and P-39, the P-38 (a later model then was used early on in PNG I know) is coming with BoBP. Throw in the WIldcat, early F4U, make the AI B-25 flyable, and an SBD and we would have things pretty well covered. And having some Destroyers and Heavy/Light Cruisers to sail down the slot will really test the engine for heavy AA usage as we would certainly see in any kind of CV battle. Just my $0.02, things will go the way they go.

[303_Bies]

4 minutes ago, Stryker07 said:

We've already got the P-40 and P-39, the P-38 (a later model then was used early on in PNG I know) is coming with BoBP. Throw in the WIldcat, early F4U, make the AI B-25 flyable, and an SBD and we would have things pretty well covered.

Pretty well covered when it comes to allied side.  Japanese planes are the problem of Pacific game - not allied.

Check what Jason said about postponing Pacific.

Edited July 20, 2018 by bies

[Stryker07]

LoL, yes of course, this is assuming we're going to the Pacific next if it's Midway or somewhere else. I was only making the argument for not doing Midway, but another Pacific battle space. 

[CountZero]

I hope its Midway or early war, mid or late is to unbalanced no one would fly on Axis side, Midway is realy balanced regarding airplanes my only coincerne with is number of ships and their flaks, airplanes are spot o for some good fun, p-38 vs zero or ki61 no thanks to mutch like we have now with 109s vs lags

[RedKestrel]

Its pretty clear that some of the work in BoBp (i.e. the P-38, new mapping tech, possible B-25 fuel systems, etc.) is a stepping stone to the Pacific. Get that work done and paid for under another title, opening up more development time to wrangling Japanese planes and gathering research. 

I'd like to see carrier battles but Midway offers a fairly limited playing style and time for, say, the career. The battle itself lasted for a matter of what, a couple days?

What would be awesome would be a release of Midway together with an island map (Guadalcanal?), so we could get carrier-to-carrier combat as well as land-based combat. Considering the new map tech they are rolling out that makes generating maps easier/quicker, it might be possible to launch a Pacific title with multiple maps.

 

[smink1701]

Two years for sure

[=27=Davesteu]

41 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

What would be awesome would be a release of Midway together with an island map (Guadalcanal?), so we could get carrier-to-carrier combat as well as land-based combat.

Just Guadalcanal would be of little use unfortunately. If you want to do the Solomon Campaign right, especially the early Guadalcanal part, you have to include everything up to and including Rabaul.

Do I personally need carrier battles at all? No, I'd prefer taking a look at the many other scenarios. Most of those, especially New Guinea, Burma and China, aren't that far off the tactical air war IL2 excels at. If it has to serve stereotypes: Solomon Islands.

Edited July 20, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[Bremspropeller]

Anybody in for the Aleutians?

[DD_Crash]

Isnt it a bit cold and foggy?

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, Bremspropeller said:

Anybody in for the Aleutians?

 

Eh - no.

Given the resources available, creating an Aleutians map would be stepping over quarters to pick up nickes.

[Bremspropeller]

I thought you like cold and foggy...

[Gambit21]

2 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

I thought you like cold and foggy...

 

Ha - don't get me wrong, an Aleutians map would be cool.

Even a third party map maker would most likely have or be given other priorities though.

[=27=Davesteu]

I don't know how to share a topic the fancy way with thumbnail, but there is already a thread on the Aleutians.

[Gambit21]

Aleutian task force never turns back (what if) scenario, I feel ya Brems.

[Livai]

Did Jason not said something about hunting "MOBY DICK"?

Looks like he was talking about the 320th

 

[Uufflakke]

5 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Anybody in for the Aleutians?

 

I am in!

How can I - as a Dutchman - say no to a place called 'Dutch Harbor'?

https://historycollection.co/51-photographs-japanese-occupation-campaign-recover-alaskan-aleutian-islands/

 

God, your nickname brings me back to the old Ubidays...

That is quite some time ago.

[BlitzPig_EL]

As a Dutchman, I would think you would be all in for Java, and all the cool aircraft the ML-KNIL flew, add P40s and the B17s (one can dream) that came to try to defend the NEI and you have the basis of one of the great "forgotten battles".

 

[gn728]

Oh - it'd be a blast - but yah, way left field, 3rd party etc...

 

 

[Bremspropeller]

It's amazing how some names have stuck and somehow also make me think of the good ole days.

 

El, the KNIL had some cool airplanes. Especially the Fokker XXI. God, I loved that "crap plane" (TM) back then!

 

The Aleutians have some key Points of interest for me:

- early Lightnings (I just love those early, sleek engine-nacelles!)

- a very interesting theatre of operations (vast amounts of ocean, very treacherous weather)

- it hasn't been done before

 

Of Course, a New Guinea map would probably the most sensible - no carrier ops (and all the complicated coding associated with that), but still lots of interesting airplanes.

 

 

[Jack_McTroll]

A pacific theater for this game would be Absolutely amazing. and yes with all the carriers and ships ( where you could jump in as gunner! ) OMG!

[sonicapollo]

They could practice with an Italian theater with seafires. 

[=27=Davesteu]

I don't want to spoil your fun, but there were no Fokker D.XXI with the KNIL. Buffalo and Hawk 75 make up for it, I think. We shall not forget about the true star of the show though, the most sophisticated CW-21:

...loved it in stock first Gen. IL2

 

It's cool to know some of you guys would be interested in such commonly little acknowledged scenarios. Unfortunately I can't see anything like this ever happening.
Even Burma would surprise me (very positively) which is quite unfortunate given the many highly interesting aircraft and scenarios besides the omnipresent Navy aircraft and scenarios of the POA.

Edited July 21, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[Uufflakke]

10 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

As a Dutchman, I would think you would be all in for Java, and all the cool aircraft the ML-KNIL flew, add P40s and the B17s (one can dream) that came to try to defend the NEI and you have the basis of one of the great "forgotten battles".

 

 

To be honest I have never been so much interested in the Pacific. Despite the fact that the East Indies were a Dutch colony.

Aleutians are the exception though.

That Jason's Pacific dream has to be postponed is not such a big deal to me.

In old IL2:1946 when starting up a PTO quick mission I often selected a floatplane or hunted them. I loved to see a H8K flying boat in flames.

So yeah, floatplanes will make a difference to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sharpe43]

I do still have an interest in the Pacific war, but that's mainly because of some of the stuff my grandfather was apparently involved in as a PBY (and Do24) pilot. I've recently started to find his name in some of the books I own about the war in the Dutch East Indies...but I wont hold my breath about that stuff ever appearing as a game scenario...besides, I live in the general area of the Bodenplatte map, that I find more interesting..

[InProgress]

Yea, Dutch East Indies would be really cool, it had everything, naval invasions, air battles, sea battles, I think even paradrop of Japanese but I am not 100% sure now, also remember mention of sea plane landing during battle with troops and some equipment. That would be really great, especially flying sea planes!

 

[Bremspropeller]

12 hours ago, =27=Davesteu said:

I don't want to spoil your fun, but there were no Fokker D.XXI with the KNIL. 

 

Coming to think of it, you're right...

 

It was designed with KNIL-service in mind, though.

[=27=Davesteu]

Yep, the Japanese conducted three operations involving paratroopers in the NEI. The Army one and the Navy two.

A KNIL Do 24 even sunk a Japanese Destroyer, but there is a general problem with flying boats:
If maps could be produced much larger they would likely still be too small.

Map size is a general problem of nearly all scenarios based in the Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre. Hopefully they can be made larger as much of the areas are either covered by water or forest.

 

My money is still on New Guinea.
It offers a unique(!) combination of naval and ground targets, RAAF, USAAF and major involvement of both(!), Japanese Navy & Army Air Services.

Edited July 21, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[Royal_Flight]

Didn’t know any of that about the NEI. There’s so much space to explore in a Pacific setting. 

 

Most of the Pacific aviation action can be broadly divided into carrier-based naval air and land-based army air. 

 

Land-based would be relatively straightforward as it doesn’t need any new game mechanics, just new aircraft and assets. New Guinea would be a great start for reasons outlined above. 

The naval aviation side of things will take more work from a game design side of things, but once there’s a carrier ops system built into BoX (e.g. Midway) then we’ve got the core mechanics of both strands of any Pacific release done.

Now there’s a third-party dev team at work 

 

Then we just need a few more aircraft/asset packs which could even be collector planes, for later-war carrier aircraft, CBI theatre, RAAF/RNZAF or Netherlands aircraft, with fighters, bombers, attackers and seaplanes, plus some new skins or maybe mods for aircraft we’ll have by then, and we’ll have a huge Pacific theatre with loads of options. 

 

I’m still holding out for the Pacific sooner or later. If BoBo brings in the cash then I hope the Pacific - anywhere - is next. 

[ACG_KaiLae]

On 7/19/2018 at 6:10 PM, castrum8 said:

Free Japanese translator here if the devs are reading this

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by No.615_Kai_Lae

[Chief_Mouser]

I would plump for New Guinea every time (after Midway). The problem is that it's so blooming big! Even splitting the area into several different time periods doesn't really help. One of the real problems with land-based Pacific scenarios is that the Japanese planes were all designed with tremendous ranges -  Zero 3000km, Betty 2800 km, Sally 2400km etc (all ranges approximate, before I'm jumped on!) - so the Japanese bases tended to be a long distance away off the map. The maps have to be really big and all-encompassing but then no-one will want to spend all day just getting to the target area.  Just look at Singapore/Malaya; the Japanese bombers were coming from Indochina - a 2250 km round trip. Lae to Port Moresby? 300km one way. It'll be hard to create a realistic campaign on New Guinea, but it still makes far more sense than Okinawa .

[InProgress]

1 hour ago, 216th_Cat said:

The maps have to be really big and all-encompassing but then no-one will want to spend all day just getting to the target area. 

I would I play silent hunter in real time xD

 

You can simply spawn in air, problem solved. But I would like to see it more realistic and have small part of land to take off from and fly to taget area few hundred km. After all it's just bunch of water, so I assume maps can be huge. I was even thinking if it would be possible to combine maps and get midway, okinawa etc as one map, just separated by huge water.

[=27=Davesteu]

3 hours ago, Royal_Flight said:

There’s so much space to explore in a Pacific setting. 

Absolutely!

 

This is the very reason I sincerely hope they won't do a "Pacific Fighters" rehearsal of some sort.
Not only because I'd like to see some "Forgotten Battles" (), but also because I always disliked the official maps and campaigns in first Gen - incoherent and jumping years.
Some very famous battles were fought in the Pacific Ocean Areas but nearly none of those have any Flight-Sim-potential - "Pacific Fighters" depicted exactly those.

 

 

1 hour ago, 216th_Cat said:

The problem is that it's so blooming big! Even splitting the area into several different time periods doesn't really help. One of the real problems with land-based Pacific scenarios is that the Japanese planes were all designed with tremendous ranges [...] The maps have to be really big and all-encompassing but then no-one will want to spend all day just getting to the target area. [...]Lae to Port Moresby? 300km one way.

Port Moresby - Lae wouldn't really be sufficient enough.
Certainly, Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre maps, including Midway(!), have to be much larger. The same would be true for most Western Front and Mediterranean scenarios as well. Fortunately the game allows to accelerate time for those not into long distance flights. Most DF-server missions tend to be semi-historical at the most anyways, so no problem either.
Few populated areas, no season maps needed*, much water and forest, even only few airfields* compared to the upcoming BoBP map for example -  I hope maps can be larger.

*: Depending on the time period(s) depicted, several maps would be needed depicting the rapidly changing (number of) airfields.

 

1 hour ago, 216th_Cat said:

Betty 2800 km (all ranges approximate, before I'm jumped on!)

One-way that is.  

Edited July 22, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[Poochnboo]

1 hour ago, =27=Davesteu said:

One-way that is.

One way trips in the Betty were quite common. As far as the Pacific goes,  they could make a few Japanese airplanes and I'd be happy to use them on the Kuban map. There are several real, authentic Zeros still flying. So info on the airplane is certainly available. A flyable Zero, an AI Betty, and I'd be happy for a while. Me and my P-38.

[danielprates]

If PTO comes alive, and featuring naval planes,  won't grumman's objections be a problem?  There was a problem like that with the previous IL2,  grumman didn't like having their planes depicted and claimed infringment to their intelectual property over their planes.

 

It would be hard to imagine a PTO IL2 without,  at the very least,  the wildcat.

[MiloMorai]

15 minutes ago, danielprates said:

If PTO comes alive, and featuring naval planes,  won't grumman's objections be a problem?  There was a problem like that with the previous IL2,  grumman didn't like having their planes depicted and claimed infringment to their intelectual property over their planes.

 

It would be hard to imagine a PTO IL2 without,  at the very least,  the wildcat.

 

Wasn't that because 'Grumman' was used in the a/c description?

[danielprates]

14 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

 

Wasn't that because 'Grumman' was used in the a/c description?

 

 I think they objected the depiction of the actual planes as copyright infringement.

[Gambit21]

Oleg didn’t handle it correctly and it bit him in the ass. There is no Grumman issue.

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

If I recall, Pacific Fighters was Ilya’s baby.  

[Gambit21]

23 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

If I recall, Pacific Fighters was Ilya’s baby.  

 

Oleg was still the producer of the project and ultimately responsible.

[=27=Davesteu]

8 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

There are several real, authentic Zeros still flying. So info on the airplane is certainly available. A flyable Zero, an AI Betty, and I'd be happy for a while. Me and my P-38.

The Zero shouldn't be a problem really. I prefer IJAAF aircraft though - please one Ki-43, 44 or 61 for me.  

 

8 hours ago, danielprates said:

[...]won't grumman's objections be a problem?
[...]
It would be hard to imagine a PTO IL2 without,  at the very least,  the wildcat. 

It was all about the unlicensed usage of the brand name "Grumman" on the cover. Nothing wrong about simply calling them F4F, F6F or TBF.
Don't restrict yourself to the Pacific Ocean Areas if you want to imagine the Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre without Grumman aircraft.