Pacific?

[Lusekofte]

Has I missed any information concerning Pacific?

I get it about the Boob funding and  development time, but after Flying Circus and Tank crew . Is Pacific still on track?

Is there a genuine ambition to go to that theatre of war?

Because I kind of keep buying stuff just to get there, I really do not see myself active and using the stuff I buy until that happens.

And please remember, I just want to know if there are any new info on this matter, there is no political agenda nor criticism intended. 

Because in my mind Pacific has been quiet down

[Livai]

I wondering, too

Since RoF planes comes to IL-2 were historical documents about WWI planes performance probably non expisting but they made them. But Pacific was pushed back because of the lack of historical documents about plane performance and japanese language.....................Really confused

[Mauf]

From what I remember: Pacific is still a thing and a personal interest of Jason, hence I don't think it's been quietly dropped.

 

Holdups were/still are? : Documentation on Japanese stuff, engine tech that handles carrier ops and the high sea beacon navigation

BoBP and the two side-shows FC and TC are interim projects that keep the money flow going without having the high research&dev requirements (and are partially already contributing to the Pacific theatre like the P38, P51 and P47).

 

And yes, I'm also eager to see the Battles of Midway/Guadalcanal/Okinawa become a thing:)

Edited July 19, 2018 by Mauf

[Ribbon]

Since FC and TC are being made by  another studios under 777/1C lead and BoBp are well on the way with it's release next year i guess in a few months (november/december) Jason will provide us with more info on future plans.

I believe to Jason PTO is being his il2 dream as he stated so i think and hope it's next on schedule, there is an old thread dating from 2014 about il2 fav planes and battles where Jason clearly made PTO his personal priority and wish.

That comment made me believe PTO will come more than ever!

[Finkeren]

To my knowledge there has been no mention of any project beyond the three currently in production.

[ShamrockOneFive]

35 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Has I missed any information concerning Pacific?

I get it about the Boob funding and  development time, but after Flying Circus and Tank crew . Is Pacific still on track?

Is there a genuine ambition to go to that theatre of war?

Because I kind of keep buying stuff just to get there, I really do not see myself active and using the stuff I buy until that happens.

And please remember, I just want to know if there are any new info on this matter, there is no political agenda nor criticism intended. 

Because in my mind Pacific has been quiet down

 

Not since Jason's post about the delay in going to the Pacific. It comes down to a fairly simple issue: research. Getting details on American, German and Russian aircraft is fairly straightforward but getting sufficient details on Japanese aircraft is much harder. There's language issues, data availability issues, stuff was destroyed after the war, and its taken the team a longer time to get done than they wanted.

 

Midway was supposed to come after Battle of Kuban but they couldn't do it then so they made the next best decision and that was to do Bodenplatte. A change of scenery and front but still something the team could achieve. That and the efforts to bring Tank Crew and Flying Circus to market will hopefully give 1CGS the resources and the time necessary to build Midway the way we want to see them do it.

 

I really want to see this too. We'll have to have patience and a little bit of hope that they can get what they need to make Midway happen and hopefully some other settings in the Pacific theatre after that too.

[303_Bies]

One day you will laugh at it. From Zeke or Wildcat cockpit

[Herne]

BoBP is expected to be released sometime around fall of 2019. So my own expectation right or wrong, is that we will not get news of the following project, until a few months before the current one is likely to be finished.

[Finkeren]

4 minutes ago, =FEW=Herne said:

BoBP is expected to be released sometime around fall of 2019. So my own expectation right or wrong, is that we will not get news of the following project, until a few months before the current one is likely to be finished.

 

Fall 2019? That sounds pretty late to be honest. We already have 3 aircraft out and the map well underway. The idea behind BoBP was to create a somewhat simpler, more marketable title to generate revenue for a future Pacific project. I would expect it to be done by late spring.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Finkeren

[Feathered_IV]

Considering the workload needed to nurse Bodenplatte, Tank Crew and Flying Circus through the early stages and develop them into something more than just a dropdown list in QMB - I would not expect to see a Pacific addon any time within the next three to five years.

[Lusekofte]

1 minute ago, Feathered_IV said:

Pacific addon any time within the next three to five years.

Well I have been doing this since first release of old IL 2 and those arcadish ones since 1996 . IL 2 had its latest patch 17 years later so I got time, I am in this for the duration. 

I accept waiting for it 3 to 5 years, but I would like to know if there is a genuine ambition to go there , or they have abandoned it. So I know what one can hope for

[Herne]

1 minute ago, Finkeren said:

 

Fall 2019? That sounds pretty late to be honest. We already have 3 aircraft out and the map well underway. The idea behind BoBP was to create a somewhat simpler, more marketable title to generate revenue for a future Pacific project. I would expect it to be done by late spring.

 

Well you might be right, I was just paraphrasing Jasons Q&A from November last year. 

I think they are using new tech for the maps which may speed things up, but I imagine there is still a lot of work to do all the hand crafted bits. 

[303_Bies]

12 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

Fall 2019? That sounds pretty late to be honest. We already have 3 aircraft out and the map well underway. The idea behind BoBP was to create a somewhat simpler, more marketable title to generate revenue for a future Pacific project. I would expect it to be done by late spring.

Planes are not the hardest task. We have received 3 planes out of 10 in just 2-3 months. 

 

Fuel system overhaul, high speed flight physics, turbochargers, jet engines etc. are the most important things which takes time.

 

I would expect pacific early access in early 2020.

I have listened 3 hours Q&A with Jason and he is determined to go to Pacific - but quality Pacific.

Edited July 19, 2018 by bies

[Finkeren]

1 minute ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

Well you might be right, I was just paraphrasing Jasons Q&A from November last year. 

I think they are using new tech for the maps which may speed things up, but I imagine there is still a lot of work to do all the hand crafted bits. 

 

I don’t expect BoBP to take significantly shorter to complete compared to previous titles, though the lack of multi-crew aircraft means that they cut down on the workload to model the planes. 

 

But BoBP has been in development since well before Jason’s November announcement, meaning that if it was to be done by fall 2019, it would have been in production for over two years, longer than the incredible ambitious BoK.

[=27=Davesteu]

The Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre is what I'm most interested in!

I just hope it won't be a rehearsal of "Pacific Fighters" scenario-wise.
Unfortunately most people equate "Pacific War/Theatre" solely with the Pacific Ocean Areas, popularly called "PTO", and carrier warfare.

Those scenarios are very limiting in terms of a PC Simulator Game!

I'd prefer, in that order, Papua New Guinea, Burma, China, Solomon Islands, Philippines.
Not primarily because I'm personally more interested in those, but because they offer many more possibilities!

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to anything related to the Asiatic-Pacific-Theatre.

Just don't I expect any news soon...

Edited May 29, 2019 by =27=Davesteu

[Lusekofte]

4 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

I'd prefer, in that order, Papua New Guinea, Burma, China, Solomon Islands, Philippines.

As do I, but I can't expect them to do something they haven't mentioned doing. Battle of Midway was a start, the Okinawa as next was a leap to long for me, I am all for New Guinea and some Beufighter/ G 20 action there

[Feathered_IV]

15 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

Unfortunately most people equate "Pacific War/Theatre" solely with the Pacific Ocean Areas, popularly called "PTO", and carrier warfare.

Those scenarios are very limiting in terms of a PC Simulator Game!

 

 

 

Very true.  Imagine by comparison the length and scope of a career that could center around the defence or encirclement of Rabaul.  That scenario could run for years!

[Voidhunger]

24 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

I don’t expect BoBP to take significantly shorter to complete compared to previous titles, though the lack of multi-crew aircraft means that they cut down on the workload to model the planes. 

 

But BoBP has been in development since well before Jason’s November announcement, meaning that if it was to be done by fall 2019, it would have been in production for over two years, longer than the incredible ambitious BoK.

 

Quite the opposite, if i remember it correctly jason said that kuban was in developement before announcement. Bobp just started and blacksix said they are working simultaneously on 3 maps. Bobp map is far away imo.

24 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

I don’t expect BoBP to take significantly shorter to complete compared to previous titles, though the lack of multi-crew aircraft means that they cut down on the workload to model the planes. 

 

But BoBP has been in development since well before Jason’s November announcement, meaning that if it was to be done by fall 2019, it would have been in production for over two years, longer than the incredible ambitious BoK.

 

Quite the opposite, if i remember it correctly jason said that kuban was in developement before announcement. Bobp just started and blacksix said they are working simultaneously on 3 maps. Bobp map is far away imo.

[DetCord12B]

41 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

It comes down to a fairly simple issue: research. Getting details on American, German and Russian aircraft is fairly straightforward but getting sufficient details on Japanese aircraft is much harder. There's language issues, data availability issues, stuff was destroyed after the war, and its taken the team a longer time to get done than they wanted.

 

I did a bit of research and it turns out there really isn't much available. For example, projects have been ongoing for decades just to find and preserve historical reference materials for the Zero. The Zero, man. A plane so iconic and mass-produced that its somewhat inconceivable to think very little survived. To me, that's just so...odd. I mean you would think that plenty of data would be available as it is for the Soviet Union, Germany, the UK, the US etc. It turns out not to be the case.

 

It's like post-war Japan chose not to maintain a great deal of their historical records.

[Lusekofte]

 There where data for the Zero based on a refurbished crashed Zero i Aleutians  and countless Docu´s telling about it. Finding them might be another issue.

I however is satisfied by making it as authentic as it possible could be based on informations available. 

I think this should not be the thing tipping it over

[danielprates]

14 minutes ago, DetCord12B said:

 

I did a bit of research and it turns out there really isn't much available. For example, projects have been ongoing for decades just to find and preserve historical reference materials for the Zero. The Zero, man. A plane so iconic and mass-produced that its somewhat inconceivable to think very little survived. To me, that's just so...odd. I mean you would think that plenty of data would be available as it is for the Soviet Union, Germany, the UK, the US etc. It turns out not to be the case.

 

It's like post-war Japan chose not to maintain a great deal of their historical records.

 

Its amazing really. But if you think of it, it makes sense. Something that just went out of production (think of cars, for instance) will be coveted as relics within 50 years or so, but right now is merely 'crap' and is treated like it! I imagine what immediate post-war japan's (or germany's for that matter) mood was relating saving and preserving what seemed at the time useless tech, and in those particular cases, war materials that were forbidden by a winning foe. I checked wikipedia for the surviving Zekes (they always have some good info on surviving planes), and it seems to me that most are airframes, made from bits and pieces found here and there, and lots of new material. Only one airworthy plane has an original japanese engine! In other words, no "as built" zero is to be found anywhere! And that is talking about airframes alone: when it comes to internal equipment, say instruments, nav radios, optical equipment etc., it is to be assumed that they are extinct or in pretty bad shape. Now we have a problem: if the developer is to make something better than just a good looking zero, but an unrealistic one as related to engine performance and management etc., we would fall short of the standard maintained so far. 

 

This is considering the zero alone. I imagine the nightmare it would be to go after proper info on the  Val, the Kate, the Oscar etc. 

[=27=Davesteu]

51 minutes ago, DetCord12B said:

I did a bit of research and it turns out there really isn't much available. For example, projects have been ongoing for decades just to find and preserve historical reference materials for the Zero. The Zero, man. A plane so iconic and mass-produced that its somewhat inconceivable to think very little survived. To me, that's just so...odd. I mean you would think that plenty of data would be available as it is for the Soviet Union, Germany, the UK, the US etc. It turns out not to be the case. 

It depends. The Zero is quite well researched at least in terms of Japanese literature. Same is true for other popular, mainly Navy, fighter aircraft.
 

51 minutes ago, DetCord12B said:

It's like post-war Japan chose not to maintain a great deal of their historical records. 

Considerable amounts were destroyed by bombing and due to common Japanese mentality back then. They choose to destroy many files rather than surrender them.
Nonetheless, modern Japanese archives are filled - just aren't those files easily legible for even most native speakers.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, LuseKofte said:

I can't expect them to do something they haven't mentioned doing. Battle of Midway was a start

Not a personal first choice but I would be ok with Midway. It's by far the best option for a carrier battle scenario. All others are either one-sided or don't feature any (important) involvement of land based aviation and/or targets.
Just do I hope they skip on the 5-5 aircraft setup. Everything else than the A6M2-21, B5N2 & D3A1 overstretches the Japanese planeset while skimping on the US one.

 

1 hour ago, LuseKofte said:

the Okinawa as next was a leap to long for me

Okinawa simply would be a bad choice!

If it had to be late-war they should rather take a look at the Philippines or even China.

Edited July 19, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[InProgress]

From what i remember, they have documents but it's all in japanese and they have to pay for translation and they said it turned out to be quite expensieve. I think it was in some Q&A on YT. I think there is lots of documents but it's all in japan written in japanese so that was problematic.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

4 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

 

I did a bit of research and it turns out there really isn't much available. For example, projects have been ongoing for decades just to find and preserve historical reference materials for the Zero. The Zero, man. A plane so iconic and mass-produced that its somewhat inconceivable to think very little survived. To me, that's just so...odd. I mean you would think that plenty of data would be available as it is for the Soviet Union, Germany, the UK, the US etc. It turns out not to be the case.

 

It's like post-war Japan chose not to maintain a great deal of their historical records.

Did you only try online search on popular websites or tried to look for documents in museums, archives and other facilities ? I can assure you that documents that provide sufficient level of information for this sim (but less for DCS which somehow gets into much greater detail, not always to its benefit as P-47 shows) are in existence and many of them are available in English, due to efforts of Allied intelligence and translators of JICPOA, ATIS, etc. 

For the mentioned Zero, there are in existance all primary and secondary sources regarding its performance, flying characteristics, airframe, systems and maintnance. Some are original, others not. But a large collection of documents and blueprints is available at the Nagoya Aerospace Systems facility of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, they even have original blueprints and documentation for A7M Reppu (Zero successor). 

Original documentation was used for preservation and restoration of Planes of Fame A6M5 Zero and few other Zeros. You can even see some of it in documentaries:

 

Post war Japan did not choose anything since it was under occupation. Large number of documents was taken to America, only to be returned years later. Efforts are now made to preserve as many of them and digitalize - many are available for free online in Japan Center for Asian Historical Records and few similar "places". It's U.S. that did more damage since many documents that were not returned, got destroyed in 60s and 70s when there was little interest in them.

[Porkins]

I hope a Pacific option is still in the plans, but I wonder how they can simulate Pacific carrier battles with this engine? Particularly in single player, the engine only supports 15-20 aircraft on screen at a time. It wouldn't be unusual for a carrier battle in the Pacific to involve 50-150 planes swarming in the air at once, along with the carrier and all her escorts, and all of their AA guns operating independently.

 

This is why I've always been skeptical of how realistic a battle of Midway would be in Il-2. You're talking about a battle that involved 7 aircraft carriers in the same battle all at once, with over 600 planes.  I'm not saying a game would have to simulate all the planes involved, but I think it would have to be able to render at least 50 at a time to give the game anywhere near a "realistic" feel to it. Attacking the Kido Butai with 8 dive bombers while 8 Zeros move to intercept just won't cut it. 

 

But I'm still hopeful! I wonder if the development of a Mediterranean game from the CloD guys will be the stepping stone to a Pacific game? That theater involved a ton of air to naval warfare, including carrier ops. 

[Gambit21]

Pacific is still next - that has not changed. 

Jason is on it - relax.

[Danziger]

Yeah Jason made it pretty clear Pacific is a big deal for him personally. Still I think a "State of the Pacific" address from the devs every few months would be awesome.

[Porkins]

2 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Pacific is still next - that has not changed. 

Jason is on it - relax.

I'm just curious on what your opinion is, as I know you are a big proponent of a Pacific game. How do you think the devs will handle the engine limitations when it comes to number of aircraft rendered? 

[Daff]

3 hours ago, Danziger said:

Still I think a "State of the Pacific" address from the devs every few months would be awesome.

 

This would be cool.

[sniperton]

1 hour ago, Porkins said:

I'm just curious on what your opinion is, as I know you are a big proponent of a Pacific game. How do you think the devs will handle the engine limitations when it comes to number of aircraft rendered? 

If you ask me (and I'm aware you are not asking me), I hope that behind the scenes serious work is being done on optimizing the game engine and ironing out the obvious obstacles. This is our only hope.

[THERION]

2 minutes ago, sniperton said:

If you ask me (and I'm aware you are not asking me), I hope that behind the scenes serious work is being done on optimizing the game engine and ironing out the obvious obstacles. This is our only hope.

 

Well, mate, I hope your dream will come true. But as from my side I have some doubts, because the bug list is growing regularly and old bugs still persist - so I think the iron and

iron board is still in the attic and needs some dusting off...

[sniperton]

My (our) hope should be understood as a 'nudge' in a very polite form.

[Jade_Monkey]

Its just too far ahead. I believe it's still the plan though.

 

But the announcements are focused on more near term releases.

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, Porkins said:

I'm just curious on what your opinion is, as I know you are a big proponent of a Pacific game. How do you think the devs will handle the engine limitations when it comes to number of aircraft rendered? 

 

Hey Porkins...

 

Yep, PTO is my thing (9th AF Europe is my second favorite...so win)

 

Anyway, I don't have any special insight here with regard to their career plans in the context you mention. I do know that Jason and Han are always looking at ways to improve things - so as usual that's good enough for me.

 

 

That said, as ever missions must be built according to the limitations of the engine. Without getting into the nitty gritty of things I've determined while testing, I don't see aircraft

as the main obstacle. Rather, other 'under the hood' logic stuff that I don't have the ability to track down and probably shouldn't talk about anyway.

 

The main obstacle from where I sit is programmer resources and AI. This  is due to the unique dynamic between the Zeke and Wildcat.

I'd rather have 10 Wildcats fighting 10 Zekes with the Wildcats using proper tactics (get high, stay fast, BnZ, disengage) than 30 Wildcats and 30 Zekes with the Wildcats trying to turn with them, ending up low and slow and getting decimated every time. This would make creating a scripted campaign based on either aircraft a non-starter. So this is what I'll be watching much more closely than how many Dauntless' or AI Betties I can get away with.

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Gambit21

[C130castrum8]

Free Japanese translator here if the devs are reading this

[Gambit21]

3 minutes ago, castrum8 said:

Free Japanese translator here if the devs are reading this

 

I may need you as a voice actor down the road, if you're willing.

If so, pm me. Early days, but I like to plan ahead for these things.

[sevenless]

Ahh Pacific...Had a great time with Aces of the Pacific back then...Would be great to see something alike again. Then there was also Aces over Europe, wouldn´t mind to have that also within this game engine. So many possibilities to make us happy...

[Gambit21]

Good times ahead sevenless.

[Jade_Monkey]

17 minutes ago, castrum8 said:

Free Japanese translator here if the devs are reading this

 

 

Check this out:

 

 

[Ribbon]

12 hours ago, castrum8 said:

Free Japanese translator here if the devs are reading this

You're my hero!

17 hours ago, Porkins said:

I hope a Pacific option is still in the plans, but I wonder how they can simulate Pacific carrier battles with this engine? Particularly in single player, the engine only supports 15-20 aircraft on screen at a time. It wouldn't be unusual for a carrier battle in the Pacific to involve 50-150 planes swarming in the air at once, along with the carrier and all her escorts, and all of their AA guns operating independently.

 

This is why I've always been skeptical of how realistic a battle of Midway would be in Il-2. You're talking about a battle that involved 7 aircraft carriers in the same battle all at once, with over 600 planes.  I'm not saying a game would have to simulate all the planes involved, but I think it would have to be able to render at least 50 at a time to give the game anywhere near a "realistic" feel to it. Attacking the Kido Butai with 8 dive bombers while 8 Zeros move to intercept just won't cut it. 

 

But I'm still hopeful! I wonder if the development of a Mediterranean game from the CloD guys will be the stepping stone to a Pacific game? That theater involved a ton of air to naval warfare, including carrier ops. 

I'll be happy with current number of planes for a start and after they release PTO they can polish engine!

Let's think a bit, it's better to add all the complexity to the game and than adjust/polish engine according to it.