Spitfire takeoff stick deflection

[SchniX]

Hi, as i know, in real life the takeoff in the Spitfires requires to deflect the control column to the right to compensate the propeller effects, you can see it on YouTube. but in this sim it seems there is no need for this, you can leave the stick in neutral position because there is no left roll tendency at all, which feels unrealistic.

What do you say about that guy?

Thx

[303_Kwiatek]

I think it all depend of wind not propeller effect. For propeller actions  you need to use rudder during take off run.

Edited July 19, 2018 by 303_Kwiatek

[ACG_Smokejumper]

Well, it could be incorrect. Torque is not us much of an issue compared to Cliffs of Dover Spits 1s. The elevator is also not in the correct position during level flight. Not sure if graphical representations are FM related but if they are the Spitfire needs some attention.

[bzc3lk]

On 7/19/2018 at 4:55 PM, 303_Kwiatek said:

I think it all depend of wind not propeller effect. For propeller actions  you need to use rudder during take off run.

 

First picture shows left aileron down indicating right stick application even though the wind is coming from the left hand side of the aircraft (full cross wind take off).

 

The second picture shows the cross wind component from the left hand side of the aircraft (check windsock).

 

The third picture shows the same as the first , left hand aileron down with right stick application except this pilot has more aileron deflection probably due to less side wind component. After looking at these clips I tend to agree with the Op concerning the in game Spitfire take off idiosyncrasies where stick deflection seems to be a requirement on the full size examples.

[Guest deleted@50488]

On 7/19/2018 at 4:47 PM, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

Well, it could be incorrect. Torque is not us much of an issue compared to Cliffs of Dover Spits 1s. The elevator is also not in the correct position during level flight. Not sure if graphical representations are FM related but if they are the Spitfire needs some attention.

 

I also miss the "down deflection" of the elevator under most circumstances, in level flight, compared to many RW videos and pictures.

 

Regarding the deflection of the aileron on the above extracts from the video, while it's true that is it useless at the beginning of the takeoff run, it will help as soon as airflow over the controls is effective, and this way the pilot will not "forget" to add it later ?

[kalbuth]

Isn't there also some kind of relation to gyroscopic effect due to the tail coming up during the takeoff run, thus having a force downward applied on the propeller rotation axis, which in turns creates a force to the left on the propeller (if it turns clockwise), due to moment of inertia? Or am I mixing things up?

Edited August 9, 2018 by kalbuth

[Guest deleted@50488]

14 hours ago, kalbuth said:

Isn't there also some kind of relation to gyroscopic effect due to the tail coming up during the takeoff run, thus having a force downward applied on the propeller rotation axis, which in turns creates a force to the left on the propeller (if it turns clockwise), due to moment of inertia? Or am I mixing things up?

 

Yes, pretty much all of the four "torque" contributors:

 

.) Engine / propeller torque

.) Slipstream hitting various areas of the fuselage, wings and stabilizers

.) P-Factor

.) Gyroscopic effect as the tail lifts off the ground in a taildragger

 

all sum up to create the left yawing tendency in a CW rotating prop aircraft.

 

Anyway, in IL-2 the Spitfires are modeled in a rather awkward, unexpected way regarding torque..

We can perfectly takeoff, even setting the rudder trim tab to it's neutral position, climb at the highest possible slope angle, and it's suprising to find that initially it even appears to "want" to roll right after leaving the ground, and then you simply don't have to add any stick ( right stick ) to level your wings ??????????????

 

Tried it at various fuel & amno configurations, clipped wing version too, and it's the same... You can get to extreme AoAs, and just a tad before stalling does some Anti-Clockwise rotation start to develop ?

 

Given that I have IL-2 GB on a high mark regarding flight dynamics, I would like to be told this is the correct behaviour, because at least common sense tells me it is plain wrong...

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Von-Target

[ZachariasX]

Looking at at other pictures of Spitfires on take off, aileron deflection is usually very subtle. I don’t find any other likr that. Maybe the Spit in this vid experienced a „bump“ from the grass runway that the pilot had to correct for.

[bzc3lk]

21 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Looking at at other pictures of Spitfires on take off, aileron deflection is usually very subtle. I don’t find any other likr that. Maybe the Spit in this vid experienced a „bump“ from the grass runway that the pilot had to correct for.

 

Concrete Runway example.

 

 

[ZachariasX]

42 minutes ago, bzc3lk said:

Concrete Runway example.

 

In your example, he seems to release aileron deflection as he picks up meaningful speed.

Spoiler

 

Another example:

 

What is interesting, you have always strong aileron deflection when you have strong rudder deflection. Same as your post.