Need Combat Critique:

[GridiroN]

Hello Gentlemen, 

 

I took some time off IL2 to work on some XPlane vids instead. In that time I've found lots of people have gotten significantly better. I have not ? I'm asking for some help in combat analysis. I already have some ideas what I need to work on, but I'm interested in getting some outside feedback. I've uploaded 2 clips, with 3 labels (labelled 1, 2, 3). The first 2 are showcasing a maneuver I find many pilots tend to execute now that I'm unsure how to counter/avoid. The 2nd/3rd clip is actually one 6min long confrontation between myself in a FW190 and LiquidSnake in a Yak-1B. It ends with me having my wings too shredded to fly, but I felt I was at the disadvantage the entire confrontation and I'm not sure how I could have handled it better. 

 

 

[3./JG15_Kampf]

Wingman

[GridiroN]

57 minutes ago, 3./JG15_Kampf said:

Wingman

 

Lol

[Trooper117]

He's right, lol!

 

[3./JG15_Kampf]

12 hours ago, GridiroN said:

Lol

Actually I understood what you asked. I also feel frustrated with the Fw190 in the Bos (very different from the fw190 of the old il2 1946). These situations are classic in MP and in fact there is not much to do flying the fw190 alone. Fw190 needs a wingman.
In MP the Fw190 works well in:
-Furballs (straight strides and hold speed)
- Dive, shoot and run
- Drag and bag (wingman)
- If you are alone and the enemy has seen you, you need to anticipate and shoot your trajectory (deflection). I think the instantaneous curve of the FW190 is very weak.
  In the end, fw190 does not tolerate errors and added to the agility of the enemies (even at high speeds) you are dead meat if you make mistakes. even for an energy-disadvantaged enemy the fw190 does not seem to worry
 

[SCG_Wulfe]

From what I saw in the first two clips. Your best move would be to abort the pass the second you realize that the enemy has spotted you and turned. Your speed being as high as it is in the dive, you cannot hope to follow his turn. All you will accomplish is loosing the energy advantage you had when you entered the fight. 

Again, the best thing when they spot you is to abort the pass and extend/climb (climb if your energy state is such that you can safely climb out of their gun range quickly). Then if the situation allows, you can re-engage and continue this until their energy state is such that they cannot effectively move fast enough to get out of your guns. 

 

I realize this can be easier said then done... in the heat of the moment when you get target fixated and think just one more inch and you will have guns on him. It takes a lot of self control to hold back for the perfect pass.

Edited July 16, 2018 by SCG_Wulfe

[Velxra]

Best advice I have learned is to avoid turn fighting at all costs. The moment you go more then partly into a turn you will lost most if not all your energy. This leaves you at a level playing field with the Russian planes. I'm really a novice at fighters but this was the most insightful thing I have learned from others. So in short always have an eye on the enemy and keep speed to go up above them.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Geronimo553

[Finkeren]

As has been said: When you are diving at your target and they spot you and start turning, don't follow the turn, instead extend away and preserve your energy advantage for another attack. They are slower than you and therefor have a smaller turn radius, so you'll never-ever get a proper shooting solution. 

 

That goes the other way around as well. If it was a Yak-1b diving at a Fw 190, you shouldn't follow the turn either, though your chances of actually getting a shot in would be moderately better.

[GridiroN]

11 hours ago, 3./JG15_Kampf said:

Actually I understood what you asked. I also feel frustrated with the Fw190 in the Bos (very different from the fw190 of the old il2 1946). These situations are classic in MP and in fact there is not much to do flying the fw190 alone. Fw190 needs a wingman.
In MP the Fw190 works well in:
-Furballs (straight strides and hold speed)
- Dive, shoot and run
- Drag and bag (wingman)
- If you are alone and the enemy has seen you, you need to anticipate and shoot your trajectory (deflection). I think the instantaneous curve of the FW190 is very weak.
  In the end, fw190 does not tolerate errors and added to the agility of the enemies (even at high speeds) you are dead meat if you make mistakes. even for an energy-disadvantaged enemy the fw190 does not seem to worry
 

 

I wasn't trying to be rude. Wingman is a catch-all solution for almost everything of course. Unforunately, I can't use mic/comms until I move to a new location!

 

Yes, the 190 seems a rather difficult craft to fight with. I've noticed the flyers who are typically Russian seem to have developed quite a successful meta around the 190. Some months ago when I only flew German, the Russians didn't handle the 190 in quite the same way. 

 

8 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

From what I saw in the first two clips. Your best move would be to abort the pass the second you realize that the enemy has spotted you and turned. Your speed being as high as it is in the dive, you cannot hope to follow his turn. All you will accomplish is loosing the energy advantage you had when you entered the fight. 

Again, the best thing when they spot you is to abort the pass and extend/climb (climb if your energy state is such that you can safely climb out of their gun range quickly). Then if the situation allows, you can re-engage and continue this until their energy state is such that they cannot effectively move fast enough to get out of your guns. 

 

I realize this can be easier said then done... in the heat of the moment when you get target fixated and think just one more inch and you will have guns on him. It takes a lot of self control to hold back for the perfect pass.

 

Thanks. This was very insightful. The frustrating thing is when I fly Russian, I often feel Germans do this and get rewarded. Hard to remember it's still foolish. 

 

8 hours ago, Geronimo553 said:

Best advice I have learned is to avoid turn fighting at all costs. The moment you go more then partly into a turn you will lost most if not all your energy. This leaves you at a level playing field with the Russian planes. I'm really a novice at fighters but this was the most insightful thing I have learned from others. So in short always have an eye on the enemy and keep speed to go up above them.

 

Even a novice can provide interesting insight. Of course I should know this by now. Easier said than done, heh. 

 

8 hours ago, Finkeren said:

As has been said: When you are diving at your target and they spot you and start turning, don't follow the turn, instead extend away and preserve your energy advantage for another attack. They are slower than you and therefor have a smaller turn radius, so you'll never-ever get a proper shooting solution. 

 

That goes the other way around as well. If it was a Yak-1b diving at a Fw 190, you shouldn't follow the turn either, though your chances of actually getting a shot in would be moderately better.

 

Ill try this out in the next few days. Thanks Fink!

[3./JG15_Kampf]

 

 

23 minutes ago, GridiroN said:

 Yes, the 190 seems a rather difficult craft to fight with. I've noticed the flyers who are typically Russian seem to have developed quite a successful meta around the 190. Some months ago when I only flew German, the Russians didn't handle the 190 in quite the same way. 

Yes this is true

Edited July 17, 2018 by 3./JG15_Kampf