Sturmgewehre StG 44 in Syria

[Uufflakke]

 

A wide variety of  WWII weapons pop up during the war in Syria. Like the MP 40 and the StG 44.

Do these guys actually realize they have a fortune in their hands?

At auction prices are between $ 20,000 - $ 30,000 for a fully functional original StG 44.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/58/571/german-stg-44

 

Not to mention Syrian rebels captured about 5,000 of them years ago.

(I hope we can leave political points of view out here... )

 

I stumbled into this while searching for a demilitarized one for myself.

I can forget about it  because price range is between $ 3,000 - $ 5,000.

 

 

 

 

[Danziger]

You can't beat the classics I guess.

[Feathered_IV]

They need to sell them on ebay and settle down.

[LukeFF]

Most of those MP44s don't see much use, since ammo for them is very hard to come by.

[unreasonable]

Well they certainly suit the Syrian rebels!   BTW, what is the point of a demilitarized assault rifle? Sounds about as useful as a stripper you cannot touch.  

[=FEW=Hauggy]

I can imagine the description "Original STG 44 in good shape, only dropped twice" xD

[Cybermat47]

5 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Most of those MP44s don't see much use, since ammo for them is very hard to come by.

 

Wait, they're getting weapons that they can't even use?

 

 

5 hours ago, unreasonable said:

BTW, what is the point of a demilitarized assault rifle? Sounds about as useful as a stripper you cannot touch.  

 

It's something you have to just look at and appreciate. Something for visitors to look at and go "huh, that's neat."

 

No idea why anyone would want a demilitarised assault rifle though.

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

Wait, they're getting weapons that they can't even use?

 

The Middle East has long been a dumping ground for weapons other nations no longer want. Practically brand-new East German AKs (a prized weapon among collectors) ended up in Iraq in the 90s, for instance.

[Finkeren]

To be quite honest: Even a rifle that isn’t loaded or maybe can’t even be shot at all can still serve its function for a soldier on guard duty or doing crowd control.

[DD_Arthur]

6 hours ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

 Something for visitors to look at and go "huh, that's neat."

 

As a visitor, I'm pretty sure thats not what would go through my head.

[unreasonable]

45 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

To be quite honest: Even a rifle that isn’t loaded or maybe can’t even be shot at all can still serve its function for a soldier on guard duty or doing crowd control.

 

No, it really cannot. 

[Finkeren]

6 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

 

No, it really cannot. 

 

Sure it can. Its primary function in these situations is intimidation and deterrence, and it can do that just fine.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, Finkeren said:

Sure it can. Its primary function in these situations is intimidation and deterrence, and it can do that just fine.

 

You have an odd concept of what intimidation and deterrence is. Might as well stand there with just an angry scowl, since it would have the same effect.

[Velxra]

The weapons most likely, are by products left from other countries that copied the german arms after the war. I believe a handful of countries copied WW2 German arms for a decade or two, Spain and Croatia come to mind. With that said I completely agree with the OP, those items could easily be sold for much more money. Either way its a horrible waste of historic weapons to be lost in such a way even if this was in 2012. Atleast they're not being melted down. 

 

 

Though if you want a STG44 clone then this is your best bet at $1,800. Personally I look forward to buying a pair of 7.62x39 variants someday. ?

https://www.hmgunworks.com/product/hmg-sturmgewehr-stg-n/

Edited July 16, 2018 by Geronimo553

[Finkeren]

1 minute ago, LukeFF said:

 

You have an odd concept of what intimidation and deterrence is. Might as well stand there with just an angry scowl, since it would have the same effect.

 

So you're saying, that if I pointed an assault rifle at you, that only I knew was unloaded, it would have the same effect as if I scowled at you? 

 

You are either incredibly brave or the exact opposite.

[LukeFF]

11 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

The weapons most likely, are by products left from other countries that copied the german arms after the war. I believe a handful of countries copied WW2 German arms for a decade or two, Spain and Croatia come to mind.

 

They are German originals, not copies. There's a really good article about where all those weapons went after the war, here: https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com

 

8 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

So you're saying, that if I pointed an assault rifle at you, that only I knew was unloaded, it would have the same effect as if I scowled at you? 

 

You are either incredibly brave or the exact opposite.

 

I presume you have never stood guard duty in a hostile country? I have, and suffice it to say our chambers weren't empty. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by LukeFF

[Velxra]

6 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

They are German originals, not copies. There's a really good article about where all those weapons went after the war, here: https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com

 

Yes many were just crated up in the factories and sent to other nations. Its crazy that the Germans had STGs to send to soldiers in the war. But they had no way to get them to their soldiers by that time. I remember seeing a photo of an underground factory just filled with them.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Geronimo553

[Finkeren]

17 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Unlike you, I have actually stood guard duty in a hostile country. Suffice it to say our chambers weren't empty. 

 

Of course not, but you probably weren't short on functioning weaponry either.

 

(btw: I appreciate you changing the wording of your comment, but you are absolutely right - I have never served in the military or otherwise carried a loaded gun as part of my work)

Edited July 16, 2018 by Finkeren

[Velxra]

Sorta a separate topic but at the same time it's not. This thread really reminded me of this video. I'm glad they didnt melt it down. Though I'm sad the police department sold it and kept the money instead of giving it to her.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Geronimo553

[ZachariasX]

If you promise to restrain yourself much rather than crowds, here you can buy ammo four your antiques:

Spoiler

http://www.prvipartizan.com/rifle_ammo.php

 

As Luke said

25 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

I presume you have never stood guard duty in a hostile country? I have, and suffice it to say our chambers weren't empty. 

assuming that in hostile places chambers are empty I also consider a tad on the optimistic side.

 

But I do somehow like the thought of a war with no ammo.

[Uufflakke]

41 minutes ago, Geronimo553 said:

Though if you want a STG44 clone then this is your best bet at $1,800. Personally I look forward to buying a pair of 7.62x39 variants someday. ?

https://www.hmgunworks.com/product/hmg-sturmgewehr-stg-n/

 

 

I am aware of the HMG version of the  Stg 44.

I don't know which country you live in but getting one here will be somewhat difficult.

Because of the Dutch rules and regulations and all the paperwork before being allowed to own ánd use one.

It already took me about 14 months before I finally got my gun license and revolver.

The possession of a semi automatic will take two more years. As far as I recall.

 

There is another version of the StG 44 available from GSG (German Sport Guns) but only in a .22LR version.

Besides the small caliber my main objection is that the GSG magazine is made from... plastic.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Uufflakke

[Ghost666]

Sorry LukeFF  I have to go with Finkeren on this one.

Little story here. Was doing a weapons display at a mall for city wide police and military day. Had a fire team there with the only loaded weapon being a S&W .38 revolver. A riot broke out (remember Rodney King) and the police left us.  Then a mob of some 300-500 (OK maybe 100-200) rioters decided to loot the mall. There we stood holding empty M-16s and a M-60.  They approached us, said some colorful things and left. We saved the mall.

 

So yes empty weapons can be effective. 

BTW after they left so did we, with all due hast.

And yes I have stood guard in hostile country, I have even seen (was not one of them) U.S. military standing guard with empty weapons over seas.

?

[Feathered_IV]

Even without bullets or bayonet, the muzzle or butt of one of those assault rifles could be wielded with enough casual force to alter somebody’s life forever.  

[unreasonable]

1 hour ago, Ghost666 said:

Sorry LukeFF  I have to go with Finkeren on this one.

Little story here. Was doing a weapons display at a mall for city wide police and military day. Had a fire team there with the only loaded weapon being a S&W .38 revolver. A riot broke out (remember Rodney King) and the police left us.  Then a mob of some 300-500 (OK maybe 100-200) rioters decided to loot the mall. There we stood holding empty M-16s and a M-60.  They approached us, said some colorful things and left. We saved the mall.

 

So yes empty weapons can be effective. 

BTW after they left so did we, with all due hast.

And yes I have stood guard in hostile country, I have even seen (was not one of them) U.S. military standing guard with empty weapons over seas.

?

 

You would not want to do that too often. Clearly this was an unusual situation: you were in a group, and the mob that entered the mall were not expecting you to be there. TBH you just got lucky. As for soldiers in an operational area carrying empty weapons: that is just poor leadership or a logistic screw-up: should never happen.

 

Bluff is not an effective long term strategy,  threats of force need to be credible since you only need a few people in a riot, for instance, motivated enough to test your boundaries.   

 

If the fact that guards at sensitive sites are sometimes without ammunition becomes public knowledge, then every guard is at risk of being at best ignored or at worst attacked by people who are no longer intimidated by the sight of the weapons, and a likely outcome is that the weapons are stolen, and the soldiers beaten up or killed.  If something is being guarded that is sufficiently important, in an area with sufficient threat, to require guards with firearms - as opposed to night-sticks, dogs, etc - then the guards need the ability to escalate to warning shots and then deadly force. 

 

  

[Finkeren]

Just to be clear: I’m not saying, that standing guard with an unloaded/unusable firearm is preferable in any way. What I’m saying is, that if you are desperately short on firearms or ammunition, but have a bunch of unusable assault rifles in stock, you might want to bring them to use for people on guard duty, where they are least likely to actually needing to be fired - maybe with a loaded pistol as backup.

 

If you have access to enough usable firearms, you should of course give loaded guns to guards as well.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Finkeren

[InProgress]

On 7/16/2018 at 1:59 PM, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

No idea why anyone would want a demilitarised assault rifle though.

Because world is something more than usa  and most countries don't allow for guns. I have few pistols and kar98, some "demilitarized" bullets for it too. It's just something that looks cool and is nice part of history to have. Yea, would prefer real rifle but if I can't, that one is just perfect.

Edited July 17, 2018 by InProgress

[unreasonable]

4 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Because world is something more than usa  and most countries don't allow for guns. I have few pistols and kar98, some "demilitarized" bullets for it too. It's just something that looks cool and is nice part of history to have. Yea, would prefer real rifle but if I can't, that one is just perfect.

 

I think people are misunderstanding Cybermat47's comment, which I think has to be read in the context of the other object of desire.....

[Uufflakke]

On 7/16/2018 at 1:59 PM, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

It's something you have to just look at and appreciate. Something for visitors to look at and go "huh, that's neat."

 

No idea why anyone would want a demilitarised assault rifle though.

 

Same as for wanting a Chinese vase, a koi fish in your pond, a piece of art on the wall, first edition of the cookbook by masterchef Escoffier, a signed football shirt by Ronaldo.  Et cetera.

 

You can not do much with it , just fascination, appreciation.

 

 

[unreasonable]

Oh dear - I knew I should not be trying to explain a joke.....

 

 

 

[Bremspropeller]

I wonder if the odd FG 42 can be found there, too.

[InProgress]

9 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

I wonder if the odd FG 42 can be found there, too.

Doubt, it was rare during ww2, real one is probably worth now millions ?

[Legioneod]

Unfortunately those types of prices are for guns that actually work. It would be impossible to sell these in the United States though due to the current unconstitutional laws in place.

[Brano]

StG 44 was in use of many postwar armies, seized as spoils of war, like Czechoslovakia (paratroopers) ,Yugoslavia (thats why Prvi Partizan munition factory continued to produce ammo, although today just for civilian market as it is too expensive) East Germany ( Volkspolizei and Grenztruppen units till 1960s). For example our army had in 1950 still around 20000 of them. They were sold later to our new "eastern block" arab allies including Syria. I would not wonder if Serbia sold some stocks of ammo to middle east "customers" after collapse of Yugoslavia following civil war. Paradise for shady gun dealers...