Playing with no Tracking device...

[unreasonable]

7 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

It's not "a matter of preference" .... but whatever... It's like I'm speaking some kind of non english...

Fine gents, think I'm lying or whatever, and for whatever convoluted reason I would do so....

Case in point, it's better and made me a better virtual pilot. Period. you don't want to believe that specific point, your loss, not mine.

 

You do not have a writing problem, you have a comprehension problem.   Preference just means what you want.  Some of us do not want 1:1 head tracking. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp.

 

1:1 head movement is not necessarily "better": that entirely depends on what you want from your tracking device. I want to be able to change the pov with the minimum of physical effort  while being able to see my keyboard, throttles and notebook, clock, telephone and coffee cup. I imagine that you want to do it in a way that matches RL and in game pov movement and provides a greater illusion of being there, immersion or whatever.  Different preferences, different assessment of what is "better".

 

If it is better for you, bully for you, I could not care less:  just stop appointing yourself the judge of other people's choices.

 

 

[kalbuth]

And that's the point I was making that you missed : it is better in VR because your brain and body is just acting naturally, and that simple facts trumps anything else in terms of what you instinctively understand of the situation. That's NOT a matter of preference. That's a simple result of "being in it" that changes absolutely everything of your comprehension of the environment. Maybe I'm not clear enough, in which case you need to experience it first hand to understand it, I don't know, but it's just that. And I don't know why someone stating "being in VR in a 1:1 environment makes your brain and body immediately understand the situation you are in" hurts you so much I repeat, it's not just a preference, it's you being in a situation your brain has been since you are born, with everything visually reacting accordingly to what has been your natural experience.

 

You can not want it, whatever. I am just having an advantage because of this 1:1 VR immersion. There are other cons to VR, this specific thing isn't a con, it's a pro. And a big one. And I repeat, I'm not laughing at you for not wanting it. I'm just honest in what has been my experience after years of tracking then VR. I have been wondering for some weeks how the hell many things were just so easier and more precise in VR (esp. defensive flying) , then realised it was exactly that specific point.

Edited July 14, 2018 by kalbuth

[angus26]

24 minutes ago, kalbuth said:

And that's the point I was making that you missed : it is better in VR because your brain and body is just acting naturally, and that simple facts trumps anything else in terms of what you instinctively understand of the situation. That's NOT a matter of preference. That's a simple result of "being in it" that changes absolutely everything of your comprehension of the environment. Maybe I'm not clear enough, in which case you need to experience it first hand to understand it, I don't know, but it's just that. And I don't know why someone stating "being in VR in a 1:1 environment makes your brain and body immediately understand the situation you are in" hurts you so much I repeat, it's not just a preference, it's you being in a situation your brain has been since you are born, with everything visually reacting accordingly to what has been your natural experience.

 

You can not want it, whatever. I am just having an advantage because of this 1:1 VR immersion. There are other cons to VR, this specific thing isn't a con, it's a pro. And a big one. And I repeat, I'm not laughing at you for not wanting it. I'm just honest in what has been my experience after years of tracking then VR. I have been wondering for some weeks how the hell many things were just so easier and more precise in VR (esp. defensive flying) , then realised it was exactly that specific point.

I have tried vr, yes it feels more natural, but tir is what others feel is more natural, or at minimum, more convinient. Preference is someone’s own opinion, not what you want it to be. While you have “an advantage” others might call it “straining their neck”. Just because you think vr is superior doesn’t mean it is, I’m sure that quite a few can attest to it being absolute crap. 

 

Edit: some may not be in the financial situation you are in, and might not meet the requirements, or can’t afford a new pc and vr headset. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by angus26

[JonRedcorn]

2 hours ago, angus26 said:

I have tried vr, yes it feels more natural, but tir is what others feel is more natural, or at minimum, more convinient. Preference is someone’s own opinion, not what you want it to be. While you have “an advantage” others might call it “straining their neck”. Just because you think vr is superior doesn’t mean it is, I’m sure that quite a few can attest to it being absolute crap. 

 

Edit: some may not be in the financial situation you are in, and might not meet the requirements, or can’t afford a new pc and vr headset. 

I agree for the most part but people that haven't tried it, like the ones complaining about people enjoying VR over trackir need to stop commenting about it. You cannot possibly form a reasonable opinion on something that you have not personally tried when it comes to something like VR. You can read science articles and make a reasonable judgement about something but you cannot read about VR and then make a reasonable judgement on it. So pretty much what I am saying is if you haven't actually tried it don't comment on what's better. Considering I have both and can try both right now, I can safely say VR is hands down the best way to enjoy Il2.

10 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

It is either a bonus or a liability depending on whether you prefer to have to look over you actual shoulder, or have another way to signal to the game pilot. So I am not wrong, wrong, wrong, about VR any more than I am wrong, wrong, wrong for not wanting to have to use 50lbs of force to roll my virtual aircraft at speed.

 

I agree that by replicating the head movement 1:1, VR would be more intuitive, and that TiR can take a while to learn how to use effectively: it took me a few weeks before I could fly in a complex dogfight without losing track and having to reset, for instance, but now I usually only have to do it once at the beginning of the mission and then just "look around" never having to move my head more than a couple of inches.  And of course you do not know the state of plane by feel in VR - you do not have feel, any more than I do using TiR,  since neither of us experience the actual G forces, what you are experiencing is an illusion of "feel", an illusion other people can get satisfactorily using TiR.

 

Your post is typical of the kind of thing to which I mildly object.  While I am happy that you are happy, the evangelism is tiresome. We do not all wish to be converted to the cult of VR. We can all try it and decide whether we prefer it, just like we did with the Wii.   

 

 

This is totally incorrect. Go to any racing sim forum and ask VR users if VR made them a much better driver. They all say yes. You can judge DEPTH in VR, something that you absolutely cannot do on a 2d screen. So yes, you actually get a better feeling for the in game environment. You can just naturally judge things FAR better than with a screen. You would understand this if you've ever tried it but it's pretty clear you haven't.

[sniperton]

I guess a point was missed here.

Some people fly for the victories. I can easily believe that VR can make one a more successful virtual pilot. Others don't give it a f@ck, they want to enjoy themselves in a way they enjoy themselves. Whether they enjoy themselves with or without VR, is their choice, no-one else can dispute their decision. You can say it's more effective to fly with VR (or TiR), it doesn't matter, as it only affects success, not the fun involved. You can say it's more fun to fly with VR (or TiR), it doesn't matter, as it only affects your fun, not theirs.

[JonRedcorn]

5 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

It is for me: that is my whole point. I no more want to have to look over my own shoulder to see what is behind me when I play an aeroplane game, than I want to have to wave heavy objects around when I play an RPG with sword and board combat like the Witcher or Mount and Blade. 

 

I do not care what you prefer: but I am sick of being told that I am wrong to have the preferences that I have by someone who has become enamored of the latest gaming fad. 

And there it is, the true reason you have been attacking any VR talk in this thread, you just do not like VR and think it's a gimmick. It all makes sense now. Move along people. What I think is funny is that you started the argument by assuming ANYONE in this thread was telling you that you are wrong, nobody was saying that. We were just talking about how great VR is and like clockwork the "it's a fad" crowd rears its ugly head and so the last page and half was you assuming people were attacking you when that wasn't even close to reality. I am TIRED of YOU people coming into our VR subforum and saying it's a joke and waste of time, if you don't like it than surely just moving along and not causing two pages of argument would have been preferable, but obviously it really irks you that people are enjoying something else than your ancient tech that's dying out. You surely live up to your username.

Edited July 14, 2018 by JonRedcorn

[Guest deleted@50488]

Well,

 

TIR5 confirmed dead ?

 

I had some nice support from the support team at NaturalPoint. Wasn't expecting it to work so well but sent them an email the first day, and after that exchanged a few messages with the guy that helped me testing all possibilities. The final test was conclusive though, and now I know for sure the camera is really broken.

 

Anyway, I've been spending some more time reading, trying to keep up-2-date on stuff I was long accumulating on my Aviation PDF folder ?

 

IL-2 is certainly not unplayable without any tracking device, that's for sure. Upgrading to VR is out of question for me given the investment that would include my PC upgd since it's still the same 2012 built i5 2500 ( not K ) ... Also, while I believe TIR 5 contributed to some heck pain that developed with time, I believe VR could bring more problems, specially for vision, and at my age and having to use glasses for close vision, I don't think that's a good option... Maybe one day if I taste it I will fall in love for VR... After all who would tell I would fall in love for a Combat Flight simulation game like IL-2 BoX some 10 yrs ago, and actually still consider it ( albeit all limitations/simplification  it still presents regarding aircraft systems interaction / modeling ) the closest to reality feel of "being there" ?

Edited July 15, 2018 by jcomm-in-combat

[Ribbon]

Started without tracking device, than i bought TIR5 and now i'm very happy VR user.

I tried to switch back to tir5 just to see the difference........it's huge, there is no going back from VR.

[dburne]

38 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

Started without tracking device, than i bought TIR5 and now i'm very happy VR user.

I tried to switch back to tir5 just to see the difference........it's huge, there is no going back from VR.

 

Same here, my TIR 5 has been retired since Jan 2017.

Love that 1:1 tracking.

[Ropalcz]

I can't use tracking device or VR, because I would get motion sickness.

 

Using mouse to look around, works well even in online battles 

 

[DD_Perfesser]

You won't likely get vertigo with a head tracker unless the monitor is huge. As long as your peripheral vision has a stable background you'll be fine.  When the signals from your eyes(BFM) and inner ear(sitting in chair) don't match up that you get nausea.

Edited July 15, 2018 by DD_Perfesser

[-TBC-AeroAce]

On 7/15/2018 at 12:59 PM, Ropalcz said:

I can't use tracking device or VR, because I would get motion sickness.

 

Using mouse to look around, works well even in online battles 

 

 

I would get motion sickness using a mouse tbh.

[dburne]

I get motion sickness very easily.

Due to a disability I can no longer drive a car, so my wife drives everywhere we go. I get motion sickness even on short trips, and long trips I have to take Dramamine and try to sleep through some of it.

 

Track IR never really bothered me much. I was very concerned when I first ordered my Oculus Rift.

For the first few days, I did get some motion sickness. After a couple weeks though, I got acclimated and now it hardly bothers me at all.

 

I think it is highly dependent on the individual. For those that do get motion sickness easily, may still be worth trying it out and see how you adjust - whether it is Track IR or VR.  I would not write either of them off without at least trying.

Never know, it might be you get adjusted to it just fine as I did.

[J2_Jakob]

I get motion sickness when the cinematic camera effect is on.

[Gambit21]

On 7/14/2018 at 11:12 AM, kalbuth said:

It's not "a matter of preference" ....

 

Yes it is - get a grip.

[unreasonable]

On 7/15/2018 at 4:55 AM, JonRedcorn said:

And there it is, the true reason you have been attacking any VR talk in this thread, you just do not like VR and think it's a gimmick. It all makes sense now. Move along people. What I think is funny is that you started the argument by assuming ANYONE in this thread was telling you that you are wrong, nobody was saying that. We were just talking about how great VR is and like clockwork the "it's a fad" crowd rears its ugly head and so the last page and half was you assuming people were attacking you when that wasn't even close to reality. I am TIRED of YOU people coming into our VR subforum and saying it's a joke and waste of time, if you don't like it than surely just moving along and not causing two pages of argument would have been preferable, but obviously it really irks you that people are enjoying something else than your ancient tech that's dying out. You surely live up to your username.

 

Absurd. I am not "attacking VR" - people can play with whatever they want, I could not care less.  I am simply pointing out that it has disadvantages, and 1:1 movement is one of them in some contexts, for some (I would bet many) people who do not want playing a flight sim to become hard work. Then you have other people who prefer mouseview.  They make their choices according to their preferences and budget. VR is not better for me: that is the end of it.  

 

The argument - and my irritation - derives from being told that my preferences are "wrong". How can a preference be "wrong" - that is simply nonsensical. 

 

The thread is entitled playing with no tracking device: it is not specifically about VR and is in General discussion - not some obscure VR sub-forum, just look at the top of the page. 

 

 

[LeeHarvey]

I've been using the hat switch since the old IL-2 Fighter Battles days. I make do, but that's not to say I would turn away a tracking setup.

[6./ZG26_Loke]

I use the mouse. 

I do have Tir 3, but never really been pleased with it. 

[unreasonable]

10 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Loke said:

I use the mouse. 

I do have Tir 3, but never really been pleased with it. 

 

TiR can undoubtedly be hard to use. In theory, because you move your head to move your pov on screen, it should be intuitive, but in practice it is not at least initially. You have to learn to keep your head very still and find a profile that works. The roll function, for instance, is useless and should be off.  Some people use backwards and forwards head movement for zoom, but I found that undesirable since it is so hard to keep any intermediate position still. So I just use rotate and X-Y and a pair of keys for zoom.

 

In addition to this, you have to find a place for the camera and organize your room so that other reflections do not become a problem. I find the hat reflectors work much better than the electronic gizmo.  All in all it takes a considerable amount of time before you can play and use it without thinking about it, but once it works you have one set of controls that are hands free while still enabling you to answer the phone, see your buttons etc.  

 

The other advantage that both mouse and TiR share over VR is that users of the former run less risk of suffering from horrible brain or eye cancers after years of use. No-one really knows the long term health implications of having screens a few inches from your eyes, but they are probably dire.   

[Cybermat47]

Never been able to afford any of the headtracking stuff. I get by just fine with the stick in one hand and the mouse in the other.

[Dakpilot]

1 hour ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

Never been able to afford any of the headtracking stuff. I get by just fine with the stick in one hand and the mouse in the other.

 

Try and borrow or buy a cheap secondhand trackball mouse, it can be a big change up from normal mouse, if you like it there are many new quality options for comparitivly small money

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[Guest deleted@50488]

Really have to give a go at a trackball mouse....but I start to miss so much my TIR5 :-( 

Any specific model you might suggest Dakpilot ?

 

Thx !

[-TBC-AeroAce]

3 hours ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

Never been able to afford any of the headtracking stuff. I get by just fine with the stick in one hand and the mouse in the other.

 

Honestly with a little bit of work you can make a head tracker for very cheap.

[Guest deleted@50488]

True, and a friend from India actually built he's own using an arduino, and accelerometer kits.

 

Problem is the refresh rate of the TIR camera compared, for instance, to a PS3 one in the case of optical solutions like the one you're wearing on your avatar. I read that it really feels laggy compared to the TIR5 170Hz resolution ( ? )

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by jcomm-in-combat

[-TBC-AeroAce]

31 minutes ago, jcomm-in-combat said:

True, and a friend from India actually built he's own using an arduino, and accelerometer kits.

 

Problem is the refresh rate of the TIR camera compared, for instance, to a PS3 one in the case of optical solutions like the one you're wearing on your avatar. I read that it really feels laggy compared to the TIR5 170Hz resolution ( ? )

 

 

 Like

 

The Ps3 cam has a high refresh rate 120 fps which is going to be quicker than most people's screen refresh rate. Honestly you will not notice a difference in that regard.  The only real problem is that the free track software is not as easy to set up especially in regards to things like translation when looking behind but with a little bit of extra tweaking you can make it work really well and although not quite as good as TIR it is 100 times better than having no head tracking.

 

 

If anyone is in the uk I can post them all the required components because I bulk bought them. All you would need is a soldering iron and a hat.

Edited July 18, 2018 by AeroAce

[Guest deleted@50488]

I thought I could use the TIR GUI with some of the track-clip / hat alternatives too ?

[-TBC-AeroAce]

13 minutes ago, jcomm-in-combat said:

I thought I could use the TIR GUI with some of the track-clip / hat alternatives too ?

 

You can. The alternatives are much better quality. 

 

After looking on eBay you can find moded ps3 cam and track clips for very cheap. There should be no cost issues really.

Edited July 18, 2018 by AeroAce

[sniperton]

1 hour ago, AeroAce said:

The Ps3 cam has a high refresh rate 120 fps which is going to be quicker than most people's screen refresh rate. Honestly you will not notice a difference in that regard.  The only real problem is that the free track software is not as easy to set up especially in regards to things like translation when looking behind but with a little bit of extra tweaking you can make it work really well and although not quite as good as TIR it is 100 times better than having no head tracking.

Exactly. The total costs for such a DIY head-tracker amount to ca. EUR 30 (including cam, cap, IR leds, wires, batteries). You don't need higher refresh rate than what your rig can maintain while playing the game. Not even 60 fps feels laggy, and your virtual head movement is actually faster than what you are capable of in real life physically.

 

 

[JonRedcorn]

6 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

TiR can undoubtedly be hard to use. In theory, because you move your head to move your pov on screen, it should be intuitive, but in practice it is not at least initially. You have to learn to keep your head very still and find a profile that works. The roll function, for instance, is useless and should be off.  Some people use backwards and forwards head movement for zoom, but I found that undesirable since it is so hard to keep any intermediate position still. So I just use rotate and X-Y and a pair of keys for zoom.

 

In addition to this, you have to find a place for the camera and organize your room so that other reflections do not become a problem. I find the hat reflectors work much better than the electronic gizmo.  All in all it takes a considerable amount of time before you can play and use it without thinking about it, but once it works you have one set of controls that are hands free while still enabling you to answer the phone, see your buttons etc.  

 

The other advantage that both mouse and TiR share over VR is that users of the former run less risk of suffering from horrible brain or eye cancers after years of use. No-one really knows the long term health implications of having screens a few inches from your eyes, but they are probably dire.   

Do you read the stuff you post or are you just completely oblivious to reality?

[Guest deleted@50488]

1 hour ago, AeroAce said:

 

You can. The alternatives are much better quality. 

 

After looking on eBay you can find moded ps3 cam and track clips for very cheap. There should be no cost issues really.

 

Just to make sure: even when not using the TIR5 camera ?  I've seen, for instance, Frooglesim's Delan clip review, but I assume he used the clip with the TIR camera.

Can I still use the TIR5 GUI software even if the camera is the PS3, or only with the TIR camera also attached to an USB port ?  That wouldn't really be a problem in my case because so far the camera is still correctly identified by my Win 10, although it doesn't work...

Edited July 18, 2018 by jcomm-in-combat

[unreasonable]

54 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

Do you read the stuff you post or are you just completely oblivious to reality?

 

Anyone who thinks that sitting with devices emitting an EM field a few inches from their eyes for hours a day is certain to be safe is oblivious to reality. Possibly because they prefer to live in VR rather than R.    The fact is that the long term impacts on health are unknown, since the things have not been around long enough to do long term controlled studies.  But fry away, it is your brain, what little appears to be left of it. 

 

But the manufacturers know that there are health issues even in the short term; Here is an extract from the Samsung Gear VR manual:

 

Precautions Ensure that you have read the warnings below carefully before using the Gear VR to reduce the risk of personal injury, discomfort, or property damage. • The Gear VR should not be used by children under the age of 13. Watching videos or playing games with the Gear VR may affect the visual development of children. • When children, age 13 or older, use the Gear VR, adults should limit their usage time and ensure they take frequent breaks. Adults should monitor children closely after using the Gear VR if children feel discomfort. Before Using the Gear VR Headset • The Gear VR should be adjusted for each individual user, and calibrated by using the configuration software (if available) before starting a virtual reality experience. Failure to follow this instruction may increase the risk of discomfort. • People who are prone to motion sickness in the real world also have a heightened risk of experiencing discomfort while using the Gear VR. Such individuals should take extra care to read and follow these warnings carefully. • We recommend consulting with a doctor before using the Gear VR if you are pregnant, elderly, have psychiatric disorders, suffer from a heart condition, have pre-existing binocular vision abnormalities or suffer from a heart condition or other serious medical condition. 7 • Do not use the Gear VR if you have symptoms of squint, amblyopia, or anisometropia. Using the Gear VR may aggravate these symptoms. • Do not use the Gear VR when the attached mobile device is hot as this may cause mild burns. To prevent any injuries, take frequent breaks when using the Gear VR. • Make sure the Gear VR is level and secured comfortably on your head, and that you see a single, clear image. If you wear the Gear VR tilted to one side, you may feel discomfort. • Just as with the symptoms people can experience after they disembark a cruise ship, symptoms of virtual reality exposure can persist and become more apparent hours after use. These post-use symptoms can include the symptoms above, as well as excessive drowsiness and decreased ability to multi-task. These symptoms may put you at an increased risk of injury when engaging in normal activities in the real world. About the Gear VR The Samsung Gear VR Innovator Edition powered by Oculus™ (also referred to as Gear VR) is a headmounted, virtual reality device that provides an immersive experience for a wide range of users.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Long term effects are unknown does not mean its bad for you ?

But then again i know people who think microwaves give off harmful radiation and mutate your food giving you cancer.
The same people think planes drop chemtrails ? and aliens are running the government ?


 

[-TBC-AeroAce]

@jcomm-in-combat you can buy any clip and use it with free track but you need to tell free track what the messurments of what ever clip you are using is. Obviously if you are using free tract you will also need a moded cam that has the IR filter removed. I once built a rig for free track using standard LEDS and it worked well with an un-moded cam as free track has a software light filter but the room has to be resonably dark for that.

[D3adCZE]

If you want full immersion just strap a pound of TNT to your head and make it explode when your virtual pilot gets killed.

Get a firearm mounted behind you aiming at your chest and make it shoot you if your virtual pilot gets wounded.

 

This is a simulation game, not 1:1 simulator. Until there is simulator where gamer's life is at stake, nobody will behave like real pilot, where the death threat forced you to fly safely. Not to mention G tolerances.

[Dakpilot]

5 hours ago, jcomm-in-combat said:

Really have to give a go at a trackball mouse....but I start to miss so much my TIR5 ?

Any specific model you might suggest Dakpilot ?

 

Thx !

 

I have only used the larger wireless logitec "thumb" trackball mouse with the blue ball. 

(oops! Does not sound good) although it has had a very long and hard life trackball still work fine but the mouse click buttons are now playing up (common well reported problem with cheap logitec microswitches) 

 

Am looking at replacement with higher end Kensington wireless

 

https://www.kensington.com/en/za/4493/trackballs

 

or an Elecom (Japanese manufacture) in the near future. 

 

https://www.trackballmouse.org/elecom-trackball-range-explained/

 

 

Although I was very happy with the logitec for a long time, I think a larger size trackball centrally mounted (ambidextrous) would be better, even though I had little trouble using the logitec with left hand, even though it is designed for right handed use. 

 

Personally I now find trackball easier for most things and particularly useful in F sims.

 

Prices can vary hugely so best to shop around 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[RedKestrel]

4 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

Anyone who thinks that sitting with devices emitting an EM field a few inches from their eyes for hours a day is certain to be safe is oblivious to reality. Possibly because they prefer to live in VR rather than R.    The fact is that the long term impacts on health are unknown, since the things have not been around long enough to do long term controlled studies.  But fry away, it is your brain, what little appears to be left of it. 

 

But the manufacturers know that there are health issues even in the short term; Here is an extract from the Samsung Gear VR manual:

 

Precautions Ensure that you have read the warnings below carefully before using the Gear VR to reduce the risk of personal injury, discomfort, or property damage. • The Gear VR should not be used by children under the age of 13. Watching videos or playing games with the Gear VR may affect the visual development of children. • When children, age 13 or older, use the Gear VR, adults should limit their usage time and ensure they take frequent breaks. Adults should monitor children closely after using the Gear VR if children feel discomfort. Before Using the Gear VR Headset • The Gear VR should be adjusted for each individual user, and calibrated by using the configuration software (if available) before starting a virtual reality experience. Failure to follow this instruction may increase the risk of discomfort. • People who are prone to motion sickness in the real world also have a heightened risk of experiencing discomfort while using the Gear VR. Such individuals should take extra care to read and follow these warnings carefully. • We recommend consulting with a doctor before using the Gear VR if you are pregnant, elderly, have psychiatric disorders, suffer from a heart condition, have pre-existing binocular vision abnormalities or suffer from a heart condition or other serious medical condition. 7 • Do not use the Gear VR if you have symptoms of squint, amblyopia, or anisometropia. Using the Gear VR may aggravate these symptoms. • Do not use the Gear VR when the attached mobile device is hot as this may cause mild burns. To prevent any injuries, take frequent breaks when using the Gear VR. • Make sure the Gear VR is level and secured comfortably on your head, and that you see a single, clear image. If you wear the Gear VR tilted to one side, you may feel discomfort. • Just as with the symptoms people can experience after they disembark a cruise ship, symptoms of virtual reality exposure can persist and become more apparent hours after use. These post-use symptoms can include the symptoms above, as well as excessive drowsiness and decreased ability to multi-task. These symptoms may put you at an increased risk of injury when engaging in normal activities in the real world. About the Gear VR The Samsung Gear VR Innovator Edition powered by Oculus™ (also referred to as Gear VR) is a headmounted, virtual reality device that provides an immersive experience for a wide range of users.

I mean, I can see there being as-yet undocumented effects of VR headsets, up to and including certain cancers. I mean, radiation can be bad? Though I do feel that its not that different from the way many people use their phones so whether it eventually produces a measurable increase in cancer against the baseline might be tricky.

And as for warnings like that...you see things like that on everything, precisely because they have to cover all their bases because they don't know. Like a lot of the 'may cause cancer' warnings, the actual reasonable risk is pretty low for a lot of things.

But what's really got me scratching my head is your initial post saying that TrackIR could give you cancer due to radiation? TIR is largely passive, just a couple IR LEDS and a camera. There's no significant source of radiation that you don't already get from your lightbulbs. What's the logic there?

[unreasonable]

6 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I mean, I can see there being as-yet undocumented effects of VR headsets, up to and including certain cancers. I mean, radiation can be bad? Though I do feel that its not that different from the way many people use their phones so whether it eventually produces a measurable increase in cancer against the baseline might be tricky.

And as for warnings like that...you see things like that on everything, precisely because they have to cover all their bases because they don't know. Like a lot of the 'may cause cancer' warnings, the actual reasonable risk is pretty low for a lot of things.

But what's really got me scratching my head is your initial post saying that TrackIR could give you cancer due to radiation? TIR is largely passive, just a couple IR LEDS and a camera. There's no significant source of radiation that you don't already get from your lightbulbs. What's the logic there?

 

I think you misunderstood what I said:  "The other advantage that both mouse and TiR share over VR is that users of the former [edit: by which I meant mouse and TiR] run less risk of suffering from horrible brain or eye cancers after years of use. No-one really knows the long term health implications of having screens a few inches from your eyes, but they are probably dire.  "

 

So I meant mouse and TiR certainly low risk, (just as you say) VR almost certainly much higher risk. How much higher we do not know: but even aside from possible long term cancer/radiation effects, VR has already been shown to cause balance and vision problems in children.   People praise the binocular depth of field in VR  despite the fact that it is almost useless in flight sims since at the distances between aircraft, depth of field in RR comes from parallax, knowledge and contrast, not binocular vision. Ironically use of VR leads to reduced depth of field in RR.  The longer you use it, the more your brain is going to be rewired. 

 

As to the other points raised in the manual: apart from being old and cranky, I have both mild amblyopia and anisometropia, so I certainly have no desire to make them worse just so that I can crick my neck looking over my shoulder.  

 

But it is up to the individual to decide his own risks: it is not as though the planet has a shortage of people.  

[Gambit21]

4 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Long term effects are unknown does not mean its bad for you ?

 

I’ll buy you a Collector plane if, upon further reflection, you can properly point out the ignorance/unintentional irony of your post.

 

I think my money is safe.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Gambit21

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

4 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

-snip-

 

and aliens are running the government ?

 

Woooooow... How presumptuous of you... If you're gonna spout conspiratorial nonsense at least get the facts straight... They are bipedal lizards in Armani suits.

 

Just ask Raaaid... He can see them in 7D.

[JonRedcorn]

6 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

Anyone who thinks that sitting with devices emitting an EM field a few inches from their eyes for hours a day is certain to be safe is oblivious to reality. Possibly because they prefer to live in VR rather than R.    The fact is that the long term impacts on health are unknown, since the things have not been around long enough to do long term controlled studies.  But fry away, it is your brain, what little appears to be left of it. 

 

But the manufacturers know that there are health issues even in the short term; Here is an extract from the Samsung Gear VR manual:

 

Precautions Ensure that you have read the warnings below carefully before using the Gear VR to reduce the risk of personal injury, discomfort, or property damage. • The Gear VR should not be used by children under the age of 13. Watching videos or playing games with the Gear VR may affect the visual development of children. • When children, age 13 or older, use the Gear VR, adults should limit their usage time and ensure they take frequent breaks. Adults should monitor children closely after using the Gear VR if children feel discomfort. Before Using the Gear VR Headset • The Gear VR should be adjusted for each individual user, and calibrated by using the configuration software (if available) before starting a virtual reality experience. Failure to follow this instruction may increase the risk of discomfort. • People who are prone to motion sickness in the real world also have a heightened risk of experiencing discomfort while using the Gear VR. Such individuals should take extra care to read and follow these warnings carefully. • We recommend consulting with a doctor before using the Gear VR if you are pregnant, elderly, have psychiatric disorders, suffer from a heart condition, have pre-existing binocular vision abnormalities or suffer from a heart condition or other serious medical condition. 7 • Do not use the Gear VR if you have symptoms of squint, amblyopia, or anisometropia. Using the Gear VR may aggravate these symptoms. • Do not use the Gear VR when the attached mobile device is hot as this may cause mild burns. To prevent any injuries, take frequent breaks when using the Gear VR. • Make sure the Gear VR is level and secured comfortably on your head, and that you see a single, clear image. If you wear the Gear VR tilted to one side, you may feel discomfort. • Just as with the symptoms people can experience after they disembark a cruise ship, symptoms of virtual reality exposure can persist and become more apparent hours after use. These post-use symptoms can include the symptoms above, as well as excessive drowsiness and decreased ability to multi-task. These symptoms may put you at an increased risk of injury when engaging in normal activities in the real world. About the Gear VR The Samsung Gear VR Innovator Edition powered by Oculus™ (also referred to as Gear VR) is a headmounted, virtual reality device that provides an immersive experience for a wide range of users.

Never seen somebody so angry over people enjoying technology. Good grief. It's perplexing really. You say you don't like people telling you your mode of headtracking isn't good, yet you've spent literally this entire thread talking shit about VR. It's incredible the lack of self awareness one must require to continue to make themselves look this foolish. By all means continue to use whatever it is you like. But I think you've made your point, you are old and don't like new things, I get it.

5 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Long term effects are unknown does not mean its bad for you ?

But then again i know people who think microwaves give off harmful radiation and mutate your food giving you cancer.
The same people think planes drop chemtrails ? and aliens are running the government ?


 

I've got a buddy who is like this. Keeps his tiny microwave in a closet just in case. Yet he has his apple phone in his pocket 24/7... You can't win with these people. I bet that dude smokes cigarettes.

Edited July 18, 2018 by JonRedcorn