Long term plan - the future of BoS?

[LLv44_Mprhead]

One theatre I would like to see, even though I don't have high hopes I will, is East African Campaign 1940 - 41. It would be different setting and have interesting plane set, Gladiator, Hurricane, Hart, Vickers Wellesleys, CR.42, CR.32, SM.79 and SM.81.

 

But then again, I would like to see them all... Let's just hope that BoS will be commercial success and also do what we can to achieve that, then maybe we will see many more theatres.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 I would like to see anything else first than ETO. It has been done to oblivion and back. Would be nice to see other theatres that also played an important part in WW2.

[ll./JG77_JadeBandit]

Landing on a carrier? Amazing!

 

Holycow! I just got to the point where I can land the lag maybe half of the time without crashing. I can't even imagine how difficult it would be to land on a carrier in this game, would be amazing.

[SCG_Neun]

Kursk was such an important turning point and the last time, perhaps..... that the Luftwaffe would make such a significant contribution on the Eastern Front. 

[72sq_Savinio]

I would say this: BANZAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!

[bigd0311]

Personally, I would love to see a New Georgia/Solomon Islands campaign. I was a huge fan of the Black Sheep television show, as well as being a former U.S. Marine so I'm biased. I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the battle over "The Slot" has ever been covered in a combat flight sim. Being able to fly with "Pappy" Boyington would make my lifetime.

[Capt_Hook]

I don't really want to start a discussion about it, but I cringe every time someone mentions the "more comercially viable US plane set". I personally feel much less enthusiastic about yet another run of US planes we've seen a million times before, and I know I'm not alone.

 

 

Sure you're not alone. But you're likely in the minority. Battle of Britain, Eastern front and PTO are the commercial staples where developers know they can make money as the planes appeal to a lot of people. With the current environment where flight simmers want more realism, better graphics, etc. there's probably less risk appetite on developers' side than previously so they need to be more sure that the sim will sell well. For every 1 who wants to fly some obscure Italian plane there's lots more who want to fly the Spit IX, 190D-9, etc. If you want to fly the plane set modelled less often you're likely going to have to put up with a rehash of stuff you've seen before in order that the developer has the spare cash to put into less profitable planes.

 

This.  Plus I'm trying to figure out when we've seen these planes 'a million times before'.  If I'm missing a modern sim, please, for the love of God, tell me!  I'll pull my wallet out so fast it'll break the sound barrier.  The last time we saw 'popular' US/German/British planes was IL2:1946, that was nearly EIGHT YEARS AGO. 

 

I've literally put thousands of hours into 1946.  Countless missions on Warclouds, Warbirds, Greater Green... the list goes on.  Online wars, coops... you name it.  But the base engine of that software package came out back in 2001.  I want those awesome battles over the skies of Europe in 1944 with a modern simulation engine, delivering state of the art flight models, damage models, and graphics. 

 

Just because I got to fly a P-51 on Chuck Yeager's Air Combat on 5 1/4" floppies doesn't mean we've exhausted it's possibilities.  I even enjoyed the DCS P-51... briefly.  If I can't shoot at someone, I lose interest fast. 

 

 

well, but what PTO scenario.....and one where the japanese side is not totaly outclassed - that is always bad for online play IMO.

 

Any late-war PTO scenario that includes the Frank will usually draw calls of one side being outclassed... but not the side you're thinking of. 

Edited January 31, 2014 by NervousEnergy

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I'm trying to figure out when we've seen these planes 'a million times before'.

 

Yep. And at least I feel that the old IL-2 covered Eastern Front rather well and West was more of an afterthought. Okey, there has been other sims before IL-2, but I didn't get to try them, so for me they don't count.

 

About what is commercially viable, there seems to be rather big market for flight sims in Russia and I assume that what sells in there is not necesserily the same that in US. What is sure though is that Fiat CR.42 (even if I would like to have it) is not going to attract as many people than Spitfire mk.IX or P-51.

 

As for my personal preference for BoS, I hope that it will move on to Mediterranean rather soon, maybe after one expansion module for the Eastern Front, and after that Pacific would be nice. I don't see any reason why one particular theatre would have to be covered totally before moving on to next. Mediterranean module could use more or less all the axis planes from BoS and also lend lease aircraft like P-40 or P-39 and Pacific module could use allied planes from Med, so previous work would not go into waste anayway.

[Feathered_IV]

The Mediterranean would certainly be a change of scene. The war lasted an awful long time there, and a specific period would need to be focused on to prevent a half arsed effort. Personally I think Malta would be the best scenario. Interesting planeset, carrier ops, night ops, anti shipping, seaplanes and some of the fastest and most brutal raids of the war. Throw in a pilotable high speed launch or MTB and its got the lot.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

This.  Plus I'm trying to figure out when we've seen these planes 'a million times before'.  If I'm missing a modern sim, please, for the love of God, tell me!  I'll pull my wallet out so fast it'll break the sound barrier.  The last time we saw 'popular' US/German/British planes was IL2:1946, that was nearly EIGHT YEARS AGO.   I've literally put thousands of hours into 1946.  Countless missions on Warclouds, Warbirds, Greater Green... the list goes on.  Online wars, coops... you name it.  But the base engine of that software package came out back in 2001.  I want those awesome battles over the skies of Europe in 1944 with a modern simulation engine, delivering state of the art flight models, damage models, and graphics.  Just because I got to fly a P-51 on Chuck Yeager's Air Combat on 5 1/4" floppies doesn't mean we've exhausted it's possibilities.  I even enjoyed the DCS P-51... briefly.  If I can't shoot at someone, I lose interest fast.   Any late-war PTO scenario that includes the Frank will usually draw calls of one side being outclassed... but not the side you're thinking of. 

in 'Gendas Blades' they are talking about that a F6F is catching a Ki-84 in a low level run IIRC.

Somtimes we should forgett our IL2'46 FM experiences

the Ki-84 was sure superiour over the most other japanese fighters, but i doubt a well flown, high octan rated P-51/-47 and F4U/ F6F was outclasses by it.

 

If PTO perhaps realy Midway would be the best FIRST step into it. A limited planeset without beeing totaly out of balance IMO.

The battle is realy limited :D , but could bring interresting features like carrieroperations, torpedoattacks ( if not introduced earlier in a possible Kuban scenario) and a flyable PBY ( Felixstowe experience ).

 

Malta, not one of my MTO favorites, it lacks the groundaction of a Cyreneika scenario.....

[FlatSpinMan]

Well, if Malta lacks the ground action you like, then I hate to break it to you but Midway is going to be even less fun, isn't it?

[Trooper117]

Not really interested in the eastern front at all to be honest... I'm only supporting the devs and bought the game hoping it will expand to other theatres. If it stays on the eastern front I'm not sure I'll buy any further expansions.

I did the eastern front to death with the original IL2... been there, done that!

[LLv44_Mprhead]

For Med my favorite is Tunisian Campaign. Time period would be close to Battle of Stalingrad, landscape would offer variation and plenty of interesting and also popular planes on both sides. Also more or less the last time Luftwaffe was able to meet USAAF and RAF on somewhat equal footing (at the beginning, not so much in the end of the campaign.)

[BeastyBaiter]

I wouldn't go with Midway for PTO, it's just so limited. It was what? A 1-3 sortie battle depending on who you were? That's exceptionally brief and it was almost purely naval. There are far more prolonged battles to choose from with a wider variety of planes. My vote would be Guadalcanal or New Guinea. I would prefer to see Crimea/Kuban first and then North Africa before PTO however. The reason is it has a better flow to it from lend-lease planes and Italy being thrown in.  We get a much broader plane set that's relevant to all maps included. North Africa would necessarily have the C.202, but the C.202 also fought in large numbers around Stalingrad. I think the C.200 and G.50 also made a significant appearance. North Africa would of course require Hurricanes, P-40's and P-39's, but these fought in large numbers in Kuban as well.

 

What I like is a broad plane set that represents a particular time period and place. Having a patchwork of planes from different era's and theaters isn't very interesting to me. That type of setup ultimate devolves into Spitfires vs 109's and other such MP fights, completely ignoring the dozens of other plane types used in that period. Very boring imho.

[BSS_Mudcat]

Did I mention Guadalcanal covers almost exactly the same time frame. Battle of Stalingrad (August 23, 1942 – February 2, 1943),  Guadalcanal Campaign (7 August 1942 - 9 February 1943).  Land and sea (battle of santa cruz for example would be fun) 

Edited January 31, 2014 by Mudcat

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

Well, if Malta lacks the ground action you like, then I hate to break it to you but Midway is going to be even less fun, isn't it?

totaly true

but isnt that the case of almost evry PTO scenario, at least rhe ones wich would be 'playable' online.

Ship- and Airfieldattacks.......that was the PTO.

 

When the US planes supported their landing operations the japanese planes where not seen much, beside suicide attacks IIRC.

 

777 could call this thing simple "Carriers".

With

A6M2

B5N

D3A

F4F-3/-4

TBD

TBF

SBD

they could make the planeset for 4 of the 5 big carrier vs carrier battles of the WWII !

Two maps, one with Midway, one wirh only water :D and add a PBY ( for Midway ) and go. Sure , they would need to make some ships:

two different carriers , one CA, one DD and a fleet tanker for each side. 10 ships, still a lot of work!

 

anyway, future will tell....

[Dennis_Nedry]

Did I mention Guadalcanal covers almost exactly the same time frame. Battle of Stalingrad (August 23, 1942 – February 2, 1943),  Guadalcanal Campaign (7 August 1942 - 9 February 1943).  Land and sea (battle of santa cruz for example would be fun) 

Good point!

 

I'm going to have go with Guadalcanal as well for the next non Eastern Front campaign IMO.  I think sticking with the more important turning point kind of battles is probably the best way to go and Guadalcanal would be a great one with lots of options.

[Volkoff]

All of the theatres mentioned in this thread sound interesting. If BOS is a big hit, maybe we will see them all. It would be neat, in a decade or so, to be able to get on multiplayer and see the maps rotate from Moscow,  to Stalingrad, to Kursk, to Tunisia, to Guadalcanal, to Malta, to Midway, etc. That would be magnificent.   MJ

Edited February 9, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[Bassly]

All of the theatres mentioned in this thread sound interesting. If BOS is a big hit, maybe we will see them all. It would be neat, in a decade or so, to be able to get on multiplayer and see the maps rotate from Moscow,  to Stalingrad, to Kursk, to Tunisia, to Guadalcanal, to Malta, to Midway, etc. That would be magnificent.   MJ

 

The day when the title IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad changes to IL-2 Sturmovik. 

[Capt_Hook]

in 'Gendas Blades' they are talking about that a F6F is catching a Ki-84 in a low level run IIRC.

Somtimes we should forgett our IL2'46 FM experiences

the Ki-84 was sure superiour over the most other japanese fighters, but i doubt a well flown, high octan rated P-51/-47 and F4U/ F6F was outclasses by it.

 

If PTO perhaps realy Midway would be the best FIRST step into it. A limited planeset without beeing totaly out of balance IMO.

The battle is realy limited :D , but could bring interresting features like carrieroperations, torpedoattacks ( if not introduced earlier in a possible Kuban scenario) and a flyable PBY ( Felixstowe experience ).

 

Malta, not one of my MTO favorites, it lacks the groundaction of a Cyreneika scenario.....

Oh sure... I don't disagree, and I don't think the Ki-84 was much faster (if it was faster at all...) than the F6F in IL2:1946.  My point was that the Japanese side, with Franks, wasn't "totally outclassed" in online play, and the way even objectives-based online servers with high populations tend to devolve into spiraling dogfights over the targets meant the Japanese side usually had most of the points.  Especially all those players that flocked to the Corsair, not realizing that you simply didn't dogfight in that big, heavy plane.  The Franks ate them for lunch. 

 

Smart players in Hellcats and Corsairs will put up an even fight to the Franks, but they sure won't be running away with it.  The Ki-84 gets short shrift in the history of WWII air combat, but that's entirely down to the fact that most of the experienced IJN pilots were in graves at that point, and that shortages and quality issues meant poor mechanical reliability.  Neither, obviously, are modeled in an online war. 

 

Carrier ops with a modern engine would be amazing, but I wonder how much work they'd be to make.  The polygon count of something like the Lexington would dwarf any airfield or set of airfields, no matter how busy, if you tried to model the Lex to the same degree the planes are.  The carriers in IL2:PF were always the weak link in the sim, by far.  They looked very cartoonish compared to anything else, and were way off scale. 

[Solty]

I hope the expasion to other areas of the war time would become available at some point. I wish for 1944 with this baby

 

[Wind]

With the "watery maps", like malta & pacific carrier ops the biggest obstacle is the terrain...or the lack of it...imho.

 

I mean, hundreds of miles of open sea with some (moving) dots of action. I shudder at the thought of flying a single player

campaign with AI team mates for hours, missing my torpedo run and then heading back alone as the AI planes have been shot

down wondering where the hell I am and where the hell are my carrier... And I know that even if there are freaks players that dig that kind

of stuff, the game developers might steer away from that kind of as most of the players are might not be interested in buying that

kind of titles..

 

In that sense the africa campaign would really make blow my socks of : a long timeperiod (1940-1943) with relatively even opponents, sea+air+land targets,

iconic airplanes, variable missions... I can only imagine what it would look like to do low level ground runs with a-20 in the dusk, dusty desert with burning

tanks as a backdrop. Or twisting & turning in a spit, glistering med below me with sinking ships bellowing smoke as a backdrop...

 

Money.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I hope the expasion to other areas of the war time would become available at some point. I wish for 1944 with this baby

 

You are of course talking about the Citation in the background, right? 

[sturmkraehe]

Carrier ops always were a hell of fun in IL2 1946 so I would like to get this eventually. If MTO comes first fine with me too. Like it also much. SpitVc and Hurri IIc or the Tomahawk :D

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I did this as an OP back in July of 2013 and I stand by it today.

 

Progression balancing plane sets, theatres, and commercial considerations. Finkeren will shortly complain about the US planesets but I love and respect him.

 

1. Stalingrad (summer or autumn)
2. Kuban
3. North Africa
4. Battle of Britain
5. War on the Periphery - AVG/Malta/Finland/Crete and maybe BoF or Spanish Civil War.
6. Mediterranean
7. Early Pacific - Pearl Harbor/Wake Island/Midway
8. Bomber Offensive '42-43 - including night ops. I need me some Lancasters and night fighters.
9. Kursk* (per 352nd Oscar)
10. Pacific Push for the Home Islands - New Guinea to the Atomic Age (Maybe break this up into 2?)
11. End of the Reich '44-45
12. Secret Weapons of the (wait that's trademarked)
13. Korea

[Trident_109]

I think it was brought up a few months ago that if BoS is a commercial success then there are other theatres that could form the basis of an on-going WW2 flight sim theme.

So the operative words there being 'commercial success' which I'm sure it will be assuming the resident detractors of this sim don't put off prospective buyers with their selfish whining.

Saying that the "selfish whining from detractors" has anything to do with the success or failure of BoS is like saying that the "selfish whining of the detractors of CoD" had anything to do with it's failure. BoS will succeed on it's own merit just as CoD failed on it's own.

 

.....frankly the level of whining on this forum is a whisper compared to what was on the banana forum prior to CoD's release.

[Gambit21]

Guadalcanal/Solomons "Slot" Map.

It can even be scaled down somewhat - still works.

 

Henderson airlfield, Zeke vs Wildcats - Betties - carrier ops - Oh My.

That's my dream with this engine. It was always the most fun I had with the old IL2.

[StarLightSong]

Where"s that FW190

[ShamrockOneFive]

I wouldn't go with Midway for PTO, it's just so limited. It was what? A 1-3 sortie battle depending on who you were? That's exceptionally brief and it was almost purely naval. There are far more prolonged battles to choose from with a wider variety of planes. My vote would be Guadalcanal or New Guinea. I would prefer to see Crimea/Kuban first and then North Africa before PTO however. The reason is it has a better flow to it from lend-lease planes and Italy being thrown in.  We get a much broader plane set that's relevant to all maps included. North Africa would necessarily have the C.202, but the C.202 also fought in large numbers around Stalingrad. I think the C.200 and G.50 also made a significant appearance. North Africa would of course require Hurricanes, P-40's and P-39's, but these fought in large numbers in Kuban as well.

 

What I like is a broad plane set that represents a particular time period and place. Having a patchwork of planes from different era's and theaters isn't very interesting to me. That type of setup ultimate devolves into Spitfires vs 109's and other such MP fights, completely ignoring the dozens of other plane types used in that period. Very boring imho.

 

All of that sounds very reasonable and logical to me. Everyone focuses on Midway and yes it was a decisive battle but no it doesn't make for an expansive PTO scenario. The upside is that if they were to ever to a PTO scenario then aiming for a Guadalcanal and The Slot would put Midway and Coral Sea in easy reach seeing as one was just a battle over water and the other was a battle over water and a tiny dot in the middle of the map.

 

All that said, I also agree with you that North Africa would be much more interesting to do. If they want to venture into the West, why not do something that has never been featured in a significant way in any commercial flight sim product to the best of my knowledge. North Africa would offer a lot of the great and iconic planes from elsewhere on the Western Front but in a setting and scenario we just haven't seen as much of. The aircraft possibilities would vary quite a bit for both sides.

 

I'll be honest tho... they could put just about any WWII theatre into a follow on product and I'd be extremely interested. I love it all.

[Felix58]

Carrier ops with a modern engine would be amazing, but I wonder how much work they'd be to make.  The polygon count of something like the Lexington would dwarf any airfield or set of airfields, no matter how busy, if you tried to model the Lex to the same degree the planes are.  The carriers in IL2:PF were always the weak link in the sim, by far.  They looked very cartoonish compared to anything else, and were way off scale. 

+1

[Nage]

It only depends on game success.

Which depends on how the devs are paying atention to FMs and performance issues. How they communicate and how theyr dealing with their own promises. We all know some of the stuff mentioned already almost burried the other ww2 sim and some stuff mentioned almost made their other product sim  less popular in MP.

Edited June 5, 2014 by tikvic

[Gambit21]

Relax, you're not on the banana forum and this isn't Oleg you're dealing with.

[Nage]

Relax, you're not on the banana forum and this isn't Oleg you're dealing with.

haha

This forum is not different from banana forum and thers no devs in the world you can trust 100%.

[Frequent_Flyer]

The PTO or Med. make the most sense from a business model. The diversity in aircraft, combatants , scenery and mission difficulty is on another scale vs. the Eastern front. Landing/take off from a carrier , navigation, fuel management, attacking capital ships, trying to locate your carrier assuming its still afloat and you can get there before nightfall in horrendous weather conditions. The necessary piloting skills and the intensity of the PTO were unmatched in the East.I think the developers are doing an outstanding job bringing life to the monotonous scenery and drudgery of the low altitude, short range, small scale air combat in the East. Historically there is nothing you can do with the planeset. The small slow, underarmed,low altitude, short range aircraft are it.

[Frequent_Flyer]

I don't really want to start a discussion about it, but I cringe every time someone mentions the "more comercially viable US plane set". I personally feel much less enthusiastic about yet another run of US planes we've seen a million times before, and I know I'm not alone.

You fear the more sophisticated, higher performance aircraft or are you afraid of heights ? Maybe crowds aren't your thing or you can't swim ? There is whole new world beyond the end of the run way and above the weeds when your not puttering along in your 109 or Lagg.