A comment on ground physics

[ZachariasX]

I have been babbeling for some time in other threads about how to do real world appoach and landings with tail draggers, and what not to do. This time, I took the time to do something I usually reserve for other simulators, namely practise crosswind landings. Most missions on MP servers feature such benign weather, that you can you can throw your crate on the ground as you like (should one make it back in the first place).

 

There are for instance the infamous Mig-3 or the I-16 that seem to give a lot of people headache, as landing them without buckling some wood seems difficult. So what I did is just set 10 m/s crosswind conditions and do some pattern flying. Lo and behold, in all cases, as long as you keep the nose exactly in line with the runway with the rudder and tilt the aircraft toward the wind with ailerons it works out fine, as it should! You can flair out and land the Mig3 on one wheel, almost up to the point where you think the lower wingtip will strike the ground (definitely the limit of allowable crosswind). It will go straight when rolling. As soon as it settled, you keep it straight with determined use of rudder and brakes, but if you're quick enough that works well.

 

Any approach keeping wings level and sit down crabwise results in disaster. As it should! We really have a sim here that depicts taildraggers with their real quirks! You even flip a Piper Cub when you settle it crabwise. It is really bad in most other sims that you can put taildraggers down such planes like a Cessna 172 (or airliners, where such is constant malpractise), where almost any arrival in one piece is sort of an acceptable landing.

 

A huge thumbs up for the devs!!!

[kramer]

With WWI kites it should be even bigger fun

[ZachariasX]

Even less margin for error. However, there's a reason that most airfields of the tome were square or roundish patches of grass to always enable takeoff and landing straight into the wind.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

TAW has had a couple gnarly crosswinds. They are a lot of fun.

 

As I've never landed a taildragger thanks for the heads up that the FM feels "right". Love this game.  

[Bremspropeller]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 2:45 AM, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

TAW has had a couple gnarly crosswinds. They are a lot of fun.

 

As I've never landed a taildragger thanks for the heads up that the FM feels "right". Love this game.  

 

You should give it a try if you can.

 

I felt like a complete idiot for two hours doing patterns in 8-9kts crosswind (and some turbulence rolling off a line of trees adjacent to the runway) in a BC-12D of 1946 vintage.

It's much easier when the wind blows down the runway, though.

[Cpt_Siddy]

Is there any noticeable ground effect modeled in your opinion, ZachariasX? 

 

Sometimes i feel it is lacking completely from some FM's, and sometimes it feels like you got infinite energy on landing and never bleed speed or wing stall...

[ZachariasX]

13 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Is there any noticeable ground effect modeled in your opinion, ZachariasX? 

 

Sometimes i feel it is lacking completely from some FM's, and sometimes it feels like you got infinite energy on landing and never bleed speed or wing stall...

I don‘t think ground effect is really there. I‘ve tried it on Kuban maps where you can take off a cliff, meaning ground effect is gone suddenly, but I feel no difference. This is just my impression. But I find ground effect in sims generally harder to notice, because you don‘t feel the aircraft.

 

Ground effect is something that IMHO takes a lot of practise to deal with, or at least a good feeling for the aircraft. Especially in cases like short field take off, where you lift the AC off the ground in in ground effect (like in case of a wet grass runway) and let it accellerate in ground effect until it really flies. I have not been able to reproduce such in this sim. The AC usually flies (when I try such) at the same IAS, wether one foot of the ground or 1 km up.

 

I would think though that in the real world, landing gear dampens the oscillations (jumping) more than in the sim, making the sim less forgiving for not doing things the proper way.

[THERION]

Well, there is one ground effect that is actually good modeled:

 

Take off, climb a let's say 1000 meters, then dive with 90° angle until you hit the ground - now, that's a ground effect!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. Sorry again...

 

Cheers

[ZachariasX]

Just now, -IRRE-Therion said:

Well, there is one ground effect that is actually good modeled:

 

Take off, climb a let's say 1000 meters, then dive with 90° angle until you hit the ground - now, that's a ground effect!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. Sorry again...

 

Cheers

True. That one is particularly badly modelled in P3D. Which of course totally ruins that game.

[E69_geramos109]

On 7/27/2018 at 2:26 PM, ZachariasX said:

True. That one is particularly badly modelled in P3D. Which of course totally ruins that game.

Even that is bad modelled. I saw planes hitting the ground at 600km/h and pilot surviving.

[Cpt_Siddy]

47 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Even that is bad modelled. I saw planes hitting the ground at 600km/h and pilot surviving.

 

All the IL-2's going down, ramming a tree and "im OK"  

[SCG_motoadve]

Definitely ground effect is not modelled in BOS, here in the video, look at the take off, to hold ground effect I needed to really push the yoke down  with more force as the airplane accelerates, because the airplane just wants to fly away.

With that said IL2 BOS is better than any other sim in their flying physics department, much better sensation of flying, more realistic.

Great lesson for civilians sims to improve on.

Well done team.