Another one of those little details

[Finkeren]

This is a sim where you are just constantly reminded of how detailed the modeling work is and how little is actually scripted.

 

I knew of course, that the control surfaces are subject to the forces that act upon the airframe, and that they are affected by gravity and the setting of  trim tabs etc. However, until today it never really occurred to me, what this can actually do. When you lose a control rod, the affected control surface doesn't just stop working, it dynamically moves depending on your angle of attack. When the aircraft turns, pulls up or otherwise increases angle of attack, the controls surface rises, and when you level out or go into a dive, it falls. The effect is even more pronounced when flying inverted, because gravity starts working with the rising motion and not against it (This obviously doesn't apply to inverted level flight, where the AoA is negavite).

 

In this picture I had lost the control rod for the right aileron. Notice how it rises in this high AoA situation and how I have to match its movements with the intact left aileron to keep the aircraft steady:

 

Just a cool little detail I never noticed before.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Finkeren

[Stryker07]

I had something similar happen in the 110G in a quick mission a little while ago. I lost the right aileron control rod, which was no giant issue as I was killing A-20s. When it became a problem was when I began to slow down for landing. The slower I got, the more the right aileron began to droop. The aircraft started to roll to the left and it got the point where I almost couldn't cope. After a bit of flight testing, I decided I just need to land hot with no flaps, and everything worked out. It was interesting to say the least, and great for immersion IMO.

[ShamrockOneFive]

I hadn't noticed that before but I love that this is a feature!

[Nil]

One more neat detail! 

Again , I am amazed by the many details in this sim!

[angus26]

The attention to detail in IL2 is absolutely stunning.

[Finkeren]

5 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I hadn't noticed that before but I love that this is a feature!

 

The thing is: It’s not even really a feature, I don’t think anyone sat down and programmed any of these movements. It is simply a function of the calculated forces acting on the aircraft applied to the free-moving control surface.

8 hours ago, Stryker07 said:

I had something similar happen in the 110G in a quick mission a little while ago. I lost the right aileron control rod, which was no giant issue as I was killing A-20s. When it became a problem was when I began to slow down for landing. The slower I got, the more the right aileron began to droop. The aircraft started to roll to the left and it got the point where I almost couldn't cope. After a bit of flight testing, I decided I just need to land hot with no flaps, and everything worked out. It was interesting to say the least, and great for immersion IMO.

 

Great example of how it actually affects your flight controls. When you lose control of one of your control surfaces, you tend to just assume, that it stops working and just flutters in the airflow without contributing anything, but no. In high AoA situations it rises and has to be countered to keep steady, and at lower airspeed gravity starts becoming a bigger factor and starts pulling it downwards which has to be countered in the opposite direction. In many ways it is actually better to have the control surface completely shot off, at least you don’t have to fight against it then.

 

I kinda see, why earlier sims modeled control surface damage simply by having it fall off. It is far easier to model.

[unreasonable]

An interesting case. Just noticed one thing that I suppose is scripted but still a neat effect: having just shot up an Il-2 and flying close through some very thick, black smoke, I noticed my oily windscreen. Thinking I have exceeded the engine limits I headed off to base: but after a minute or so the oil film cleared.  Most impressive.

 

Looking forwards to oily goggles in FC. 

[Haza]

Just now, unreasonable said:

An interesting case. Just noticed one thing that I suppose is scripted but still a neat effect: having just shot up an Il-2 and flying close through some very thick, black smoke, I noticed my oily windscreen. Thinking I have exceeded the engine limits I headed off to base: but after a minute or so the oil film cleared.  Most impressive.

 

Looking forwards to oily goggles in FC. 

 

Just oily goggles I hope, mate!! ?

[Finkeren]

6 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

An interesting case. Just noticed one thing that I suppose is scripted but still a neat effect: having just shot up an Il-2 and flying close through some very thick, black smoke, I noticed my oily windscreen. Thinking I have exceeded the engine limits I headed off to base: but after a minute or so the oil film cleared.  Most impressive.

 

Looking forwards to oily goggles in FC. 

 

Dang! I have never seen that. Thst sounds cool!

[unreasonable]

1 hour ago, Finkeren said:

 

Dang! I have never seen that. Thst sounds cool!

 

You would have to actually shoot someone down to see that.  

 

1 hour ago, Haza said:

 

Just oily goggles I hope, mate!! ?

 

Water based lubricants much better for other areas. 

[pilotpierre]

Well after all these years with the original and then BoX I just realised today (flying the La 5 in the career mode that):

 

While flying around in a circle protecting a river crossing that the sight was ever so slightly off to one side (about half a graduation on the horizontal sight bar) as was my position in the cockpit. No matter how many time I centralised TiR it remained the same until I straightened up and flew straight. By experimenting I found it was centrifugal force involuntarily forcing the head to one side while flying in a circle.

[Finkeren]

17 minutes ago, pilotpierre said:

Well after all these years with the original and then BoX I just realised today (flying the La 5 in the career mode that):

 

While flying around in a circle protecting a river crossing that the sight was ever so slightly off to one side (about half a graduation on the horizontal sight bar) as was my position in the cockpit. No matter how many time I centralised TiR it remained the same until I straightened up and flew straight. By experimenting I found it was centrifugal force involuntarily forcing the head to one side while flying in a circle.

 

Not trying to be rude, but surely you must have noticed this, when taking a shot at an enemy during a turn. When in a banked turn the reticle shifts downward on the sight very noticably, making it even harder to see the target when doing deflection shooting - especially annoying in the La-5. It’s the exact same force that shifts your head position right or left.

[pilotpierre]

Yes Fink I had noticed it during dog fights where turns are sudden and all over the place and I had noticed it before in the LaGG3 I think. However today was a gentle curving circle. Also you could never be rude as long as you retain your gorgeous avatar.  

[Porkins]

On 7/6/2018 at 1:06 AM, unreasonable said:

An interesting case. Just noticed one thing that I suppose is scripted but still a neat effect: having just shot up an Il-2 and flying close through some very thick, black smoke, I noticed my oily windscreen. Thinking I have exceeded the engine limits I headed off to base: but after a minute or so the oil film cleared.  Most impressive.

 

Looking forwards to oily goggles in FC. 

I just plan on having an open can of oil next to my computer when I play. I can then just splash it in my face when appropriate for ultimate immersion! 

[Voidhunger]

On 7/6/2018 at 8:06 AM, unreasonable said:

An interesting case. Just noticed one thing that I suppose is scripted but still a neat effect: having just shot up an Il-2 and flying close through some very thick, black smoke, I noticed my oily windscreen. Thinking I have exceeded the engine limits I headed off to base: but after a minute or so the oil film cleared.  Most impressive.

 

Looking forwards to oily goggles in FC. 

Hmm i have never seen that before, need to try it.

[unreasonable]

On 7/10/2018 at 2:52 PM, Voidhunger said:

Hmm i have never seen that before, need to try it.

 

It is even possible that this was simply a lighting effect: one thing that is true is that the 109's flat cockpit glass has a variety of very slight staining on it, which is only visible under certain lighting. Flying out from a low position beneath a cloud into a sunnier area can make those stains disappear, so it is possible that I was under lighting where the stains were most obviously visible shortly after shooting down the IL-2 and then flew into an area where they were not.

 

I used to record all my sorties, but now I am on 4K this is impossible since the 500GB limit comes along in a few minutes, so I cannot be sure. So victim oil or just greasy rag stain,  either way, the lighting effects are still quite wonderful!

[NiiranenVR]

Well , a little funny- maybe - I was flying my FW and another FW hit me and my cockpit were gone ?

[migmadmarine]

Just had a interesting bit of damage, Tail of a PE-2 I was attacking nicked my wing and bent it. Seemed pretty intact, didn't wiggle when I rolled, aileron still worked, but my flaps were jammed. I jettisoned my canopy just in case, flew back to base, and attempted to land. The spar failed as I flared for touchdown, I survived unharmed, but didn't save the aircraft unfortunately. 

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Well it’s not a little detail, but the odd shooting off a canopy is pretty exciting...

 

was as flying in the bubble yak and while flying cover over our tanks a few enemy fighters entered our airspace...  one of our mates were in trouble so I got on the tail of the 109....

once a firing solution was aquired I opened up and after a few hits around the cockpit the canopy blew off and in amazement I said “whoa!”  Then banked over as I noticed it was in my flight path...

 

just knocking of it parts of aircraft in a fight is crazy, especially when they continue to have aerodynamic principles flipping through the air...

 

 

[F/JG300_Gruber]

I noticed recently that there is a bird hidden somewhere in the hangar on the main menu screen...

Can't see it but I can definitely hear it.

 

[peregrine7]

On 7/18/2018 at 12:09 AM, spartan85 said:

Well it’s not a little detail, but the odd shooting off a canopy is pretty exciting...

 

was as flying in the bubble yak and while flying cover over our tanks a few enemy fighters entered our airspace...  one of our mates were in trouble so I got on the tail of the 109....

once a firing solution was aquired I opened up and after a few hits around the cockpit the canopy blew off and in amazement I said “whoa!”  Then banked over as I noticed it was in my flight path...

 

just knocking of it parts of aircraft in a fight is crazy, especially when they continue to have aerodynamic principles flipping through the air...

 

 

 

One of the videos I was going to make featured me blowing off a guy's canopy, thinking he was out of the fight I left him be. 5 minutes later (or more?) he came back and shot me down! 

Alas replays seem broken so it may just end up being a highlights reel of the videos I've already taken, but I think I have it saved as an mp4 already.

EDIT: Actually it happened in my first video as well

Edited July 27, 2018 by peregrine7

[RedeyeStorm]

I believe the 109 E7 is quite prone to loosing it's canopy. Had mine shot off a couple times in a row in career-mode.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I was surprised when my head was shake up from near by explosion of enemy aircraft.

 

[LukeFF]

The radio operator's seat in the Ju 88 moves left and right when using the MGs.

[kestrel79]

I'm going through each plane remapping my controls on my new PC. Tonight I'm flying around in the A-20 for the first time in a long time and decide to map a key to the "formation lights" and wondered what they were I've never mapped those before. To my amazement I turn them on and they are these cool little blue/white lights that must of been used for forming up back in the day.

 

Very cool I had no clue WW2 planes had stuff like this. There's also a white light in the back of the plane with the bomb bay opens up, and a little red light when you drop the bombs. My guess this was for large formation bombings? I'm not sure but someone here does  How cool! No other sim has this kinda stuff, thank you for all the little details I love it.

[C6_lefuneste]

1 hour ago, kestrel79 said:

There's also a white light in the back of the plane with the bomb bay opens up

 

Very useful when you are defending a target against A20 : you can see them farther and you know that they are lining up for their bombing run.

[NiiranenVR]

A little one , I have No Photo or film - but one Day in Berloga I Saw a plane with a parachute round it's tail and it was following the plane 

I never come so close so I could see that man hang there 

[LP1888]

One thing I noticed is the waves from the water coming up the shore simple Nice touch.

[EAF19_Marsh]

This sim really is a work of art (with beautifully scientific underpinnings).

[jaygee485]

I was really amazed by the incredibly detailed damage model when my Spit Mk IX wingtip hit a tree near the river bank.

I'd got a bit too enthusiastic strafing a train at low speed, struck the tree when I pulled up too late, causing the plane to spin into the ground, breaking up, skidding and splashing into the river.

The wing had ripped off, and the individual ribs and spars in the wing were beautifully detailed, as the wing and fuselage bobbed in the sparkling water and slowly sank.

 

13 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

This sim really is a work of art (with beautifully scientific underpinnings).

 

Yeah, - what he said 

[spitfirejoe]

just try to fly as low as you can over water.......with any plane.

You will be amazed how the water from the prop wash hits your Cockpit Windows.

 

MANY MANY small amazing Details in IL-2, Love it.

[kestrel79]

P-39 has these formation lights too. Anyone know how they were used in real life? Do other planes in sim have these lights and I've just been living under a rock?

[LukeFF]

24 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

P-39 has these formation lights too. Anyone know how they were used in real life? Do other planes in sim have these lights and I've just been living under a rock?

 

The Spitfires, A-20, P-47, and P-39 all have it. As for real-world usage, they were used to help get aircraft into formation and as a means of communication - the lights could be flashed on and off with a pushbutton on the switchbox. So, it's kinda like a form of visual Morse Code. 

 

Side note: I have an original P-47N recognition light switchbox that I'm in the process of converting into a USB controller. ?

[Rjel]

The P-47D we already have obliviously has them. The upcoming P-51 will too. They must have been pretty bright in real life as the pilot manual for the P-51 warns about their use as below - 

 

[56RAF_Roblex]

 

Yet for all this, there are still things that were present in very old flight sims that we do not have now.     

In 'Fighter Squadron: Screaming Demons Over Europe', released in 1999,  I remember accidently clipping another plane with my prop and it took half his tailplane off & bent my prop which caused the engine to vibrate and over the next 5 minutes the vibration got worse & worse and the engine started to leak oil until finally it failed.  In BoX you can bend your props but it just causes the engine to stop instantly or you can hit something without bending the props and it flies on without any problems.

In that same game I remember making a very heavy landing and a wheel breaking off and after sliding to a halt I was amazed to see that loose wheel rolling in front of me on the runway in a diminishing spiral until it fell over just as a rolling wheel does in real life.

 

Way back in 1994 '1942: Pacific Air War' came out and if you shot a wing off an enemy it first flew off wildly tumbling mainly along its long axis then sometimes it would settle into something more like a sycamore seeds helicopter-like motion as it spiralled down. That was 25 years ago!
 

On the whole most of these games had very detailed damage models with damage being shown where it happened and getting worse where appropriate.  Even in IL 1946 you would see He111s engines being set on fire then the fire spreading inwards until it set off the fuel tanks in the wing root and blew the wing off which was known to be an issue in real life; if the engine caught fire you bailed as quickly as you could!.  You don't see that in BoX.

I think that game designers at some point decided to switch all their attention and available CPU power to making the graphics the best they could and now struggle to have enough CPU left to handle fine details in DM & Physics.    Even in other types of games there was a shift in the first part of the Millenium away from good gameplay & adequate graphics to great eye candy & shallow gameplay though I believe we are now getting better gameplay again.

[lightbulbjim]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:06 PM, unreasonable said:

An interesting case. Just noticed one thing that I suppose is scripted but still a neat effect: having just shot up an Il-2 and flying close through some very thick, black smoke, I noticed my oily windscreen. Thinking I have exceeded the engine limits I headed off to base: but after a minute or so the oil film cleared.  Most impressive.

 

Looking forwards to oily goggles in FC. 

Ha. I play in VR, and once my engine was badly damaged with oil spewing everywhere. My windscreen was so covered that it was difficult to see for landing. No problem, I thought; I opened the canopy and stuck my head out the side to see, only to immediately have oil splattered all over my "goggles". Now I couldn't see anything anywhere!

[Rjel]

21 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

Yet for all this, there are still things that were present in very old flight sims that we do not have now.     

In 'Fighter Squadron: Screaming Demons Over Europe', released in 1999,  I remember accidently clipping another plane with my prop and it took half his tailplane off & bent my prop which caused the engine to vibrate and over the next 5 minutes the vibration got worse & worse and the engine started to leak oil until finally it failed.  In BoX you can bend your props but it just causes the engine to stop instantly or you can hit something without bending the props and it flies on without any problems.

In that same game I remember making a very heavy landing and a wheel breaking off and after sliding to a halt I was amazed to see that loose wheel rolling in front of me on the runway in a diminishing spiral until it fell over just as a rolling wheel does in real life.

 

Way back in 1994 '1942: Pacific Air War' came out and if you shot a wing off an enemy it first flew off wildly tumbling mainly along its long axis then sometimes it would settle into something more like a sycamore seeds helicopter-like motion as it spiralled down. That was 25 years ago!
 

On the whole most of these games had very detailed damage models with damage being shown where it happened and getting worse where appropriate.  Even in IL 1946 you would see He111s engines being set on fire then the fire spreading inwards until it set off the fuel tanks in the wing root and blew the wing off which was known to be an issue in real life; if the engine caught fire you bailed as quickly as you could!.  You don't see that in BoX.

I think that game designers at some point decided to switch all their attention and available CPU power to making the graphics the best they could and now struggle to have enough CPU left to handle fine details in DM & Physics.    Even in other types of games there was a shift in the first part of the Millenium away from good gameplay & adequate graphics to great eye candy & shallow gameplay though I believe we are now getting better gameplay again.

Some of what you mention, such as engine failure after a prop strike, happens in the P-47. Both ways. I've had the engine die immediately and also spew oil, shake and die a little time later. Same with the burning fuel tanks as you mentioned. I thought that was a rather common occurrence in BoX. I think in many ways the damage model is rather more subtle in its effects than is given credit. Last night I was doing some ground skimming in my P-47 following railroad tracks. I dragged the wingtip, hearing it scrape on the ground and skewing the plane a little sideways. No damage though. I've done similar things in other planes and cracked the wing then flew on til it failed. I have the track should anyone want to see it.

[JonRedcorn]

2 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

Yet for all this, there are still things that were present in very old flight sims that we do not have now.     

In 'Fighter Squadron: Screaming Demons Over Europe', released in 1999,  I remember accidently clipping another plane with my prop and it took half his tailplane off & bent my prop which caused the engine to vibrate and over the next 5 minutes the vibration got worse & worse and the engine started to leak oil until finally it failed.  In BoX you can bend your props but it just causes the engine to stop instantly or you can hit something without bending the props and it flies on without any problems.

In that same game I remember making a very heavy landing and a wheel breaking off and after sliding to a halt I was amazed to see that loose wheel rolling in front of me on the runway in a diminishing spiral until it fell over just as a rolling wheel does in real life.

 

Way back in 1994 '1942: Pacific Air War' came out and if you shot a wing off an enemy it first flew off wildly tumbling mainly along its long axis then sometimes it would settle into something more like a sycamore seeds helicopter-like motion as it spiralled down. That was 25 years ago!
 

On the whole most of these games had very detailed damage models with damage being shown where it happened and getting worse where appropriate.  Even in IL 1946 you would see He111s engines being set on fire then the fire spreading inwards until it set off the fuel tanks in the wing root and blew the wing off which was known to be an issue in real life; if the engine caught fire you bailed as quickly as you could!.  You don't see that in BoX.

I think that game designers at some point decided to switch all their attention and available CPU power to making the graphics the best they could and now struggle to have enough CPU left to handle fine details in DM & Physics.    Even in other types of games there was a shift in the first part of the Millenium away from good gameplay & adequate graphics to great eye candy & shallow gameplay though I believe we are now getting better gameplay again.

 

 

LOL cmon dude....

 

Were talking canned animations vs real physics calculations going on.

 

[migmadmarine]

I mean, I've had a bomb hit my aircraft and scrape along the fusalage, but fail to detonate because I was so close to the aircraft it dropped from. 

[56RAF_Roblex]

6 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

LOL cmon dude....

 

Were talking canned animations vs real physics calculations going on.

 

OK maybe I am looking back with rose-tinted glasses ? but  I stand by my assertion that we got too bogged down in pretty graphics to the detriment of gameplay features for a long time and for all its vaunted 'real physics' it was wasted in the first versions of BoS because you either missed the target (assuming you could actually see it) or you hit it and it instantly became a fireball.  It was like Hollywood in the 70s & 80s when every time a baddies car left the road it spontaneously exploded in mid air ?