Thoughts about the FC map

[Blooddawn1942]

Since we have a thread related to the aircrafts and their FMs, I see the need to discuss the upcoming map in a separate space. 

 

As far as we know from the announcement from November 2017, the map will have the size of approximately 100x100 km. That's all we know for sure. 

 

But I would really like to speculate a bit what we might finally get. 

 

I wonder were the map will be located. Will it be Flanders with a coastline or will it be located in France, Lille or Saint Mihiel maybe? The given Planeset gives no clear indication since we have British and French aircrafts on the Entente side. 

If we get deployed to France, maybe they focus on  Saint Mihiel west of Verdun, since this operation  favors a late war Planeset we're getting and the US folks can be involved with the Escadrille Lafayette. We will see... 

 

 

I expect that the latest map technology that we already know from BoX will deliver a far better visual experience, than the maps we are used to from RoF. I really have high expectations, especially regarding the look of the frontline an the no mans land. They looked rather dull in RoF even considering the fact that these maps were created ages ago. (Western Front and Channel maps) 

 

I'm really interested to hear Your thoughts about this topic. ☺️

Edited July 4, 2018 by Blooddawn1942

[Cynic_Al]

2 hours ago, Blooddawn1942 said:

Since we have a thread related to the aircraft and their FMs, I see the need to discuss the upcoming map ☺️

 

Since we can't influence its content, better wait until it's no-longer upcoming.

 

"It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data..."

[Cybermat47]

The Entente planeset seems to be mainly Commonwealth types, with the SPAD XIII being the only French aircraft, and the map will have summer textures, so it could be based on Operation Michael - and, as the Fokker D.VII is in there as well - perhaps also the months after the German offensive halted.

[Blooddawn1942]

1 hour ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Since we can't influence its content, better wait until it's no-longer upcoming.

 

"It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data..."

It's nothing wrong about to discuss unreleased content and have some guesswork. It's happening all the time on this board. 

[SeaW0lf]

I just posted about the subject on ROF forum a few months back. You can check it here. I did a map (attached) with all the Jasta 11 airfields (since the module is called Flying Circus) after the introduction of the D.VII, the last aircraft to enter the war in our list in Flying Circus. The first airfield would be Cappy, just after MvR death.

 

Just an exercise, but an interesting one. I don't mind if they make a map linked to Jasta 11. On the aforementioned post I cited Cappy as my gess (or I would consider it). But at the time the mud was different, so the front would be a few miles into Entente territory if I'm not mistaken.

[ZachariasX]

26 minutes ago, SeaW0lf said:

I just posted about the subject on ROF forum a few months back. You can check it here. I did a map (attached) with all the Jasta 11 airfields (since the module is called Flying Circus) after the introduction of the D.VII, the last aircraft to enter the war in our list in Flying Circus. The first airfield would be Cappy, just after MvR death.

 

Just an exercise, but an interesting one. I don't mind if they make a map linked to Jasta 11. On the aforementioned post I cited Cappy as my gess (or I would consider it). But at the time the mud was different, so the front would be a few miles into Entente territory if I'm not mistaken.

If it will be really something like 100 x 100 km, then this would be a good choice. I think for the give planeset and for the series to kick off, it needs to be placed wehere the "Circus" was located. And you put that on the map. As for Entente, just use Spads in the south and British in the north. What can you do?

 

It would be nice to further extend this very same map with each new "Volume" of the game. By now the game engine can handle a rather large map. Essentially, something like 400 x 500 km will give you the whole front. If the top right and bottom left corners are more sparsely "populated" that should work out.

 

[J2_Trupobaw]

My money is on Ypres/Arras/Somme-Cappy front sector, and surrounding area, for obvious reasons. Ypres is about 100 km north from Cappy, too. 

[Blooddawn1942]

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

I just posted about the subject on ROF forum a few months back. You can check it here. I did a map (attached) with all the Jasta 11 airfields (since the module is called Flying Circus) after the introduction of the D.VII, the last aircraft to enter the war in our list in Flying Circus. The first airfield would be Cappy, just after MvR death.

 

Just an exercise, but an interesting one. I don't mind if they make a map linked to Jasta 11. On the aforementioned post I cited Cappy as my gess (or I would consider it). But at the time the mud was different, so the front would be a few miles into Entente territory if I'm not mistaken.

Oh great. Thanks. I haven't been on the RoF forum for ages. Missed this. 

[SeaW0lf]

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

If it will be really something like 100 x 100 km, then this would be a good choice. I think for the give planeset and for the series to kick off, it needs to be placed wehere the "Circus" was located. And you put that on the map. As for Entente, just use Spads in the south and British in the north. What can you do?

 

It would be nice to further extend this very same map with each new "Volume" of the game. By now the game engine can handle a rather large map. Essentially, something like 400 x 500 km will give you the whole front. If the top right and bottom left corners are more sparsely "populated" that should work out.

 

 

It is my guess as well. The Ypres/Arras/Somme-Cappy front that Trupo mentioned might nail it. And 100km can cover a lot of ground. I just hope that we get a different front line, and then mission builders will have another front option. I'm not sure though because Jason said that they would port the whole ROF map overtime. 

[Cynic_Al]

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

It is my guess as well. The Ypres/Arras/Somme-Cappy front that Trupo mentioned might nail it. And 100km can cover a lot of ground. I just hope that we get a different front line, and then mission builders will have another front option. I'm not sure though because Jason said that they would port the whole ROF map overtime. 

 

If the entire map is to be ported in time, perhaps the most important issue is the development of a chronologically-repositioning front.

[SeaW0lf]

7 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

If the entire map is to be ported in time, perhaps the most important issue is the development of a chronologically-repositioning front.

 

On this one I think only a seasoned mission builder can give a good feedback. Both ways you would have to compromise in some fronts and campaigns I imagine. Which one would be the best I don't know (an entire map in the same time frame or chronological).

[303_Bies]

In Tank Crew DevDiary Han stated:

Quote

We plan to improve many other technologies for Tank Crew project. In particular, we plan to make landscape mesh 16 times more detailed for smaller, 100x100 km tank maps. This will allow creating the fully-featured multiplayer missions with tanks and aircraft acting simultaneously in one mission (10000 sq.km. are more than enough for fighters and ground attack planes). In the same time, tank players will have very good landscape visuals on such maps.

and

Quote

The action in Tank Crew: Clash at Prokhorovka will take place in 100x100 km area around Belgorod, including the place where the greatest tank battle of all time was waged, near Prokhorovka village. You can see that the map size is smaller than in our other projects, but we made it smaller on purpose to use our recently developed landscape detail scaling technology. This tech will make the landscape wireframe 16 times more detailed than our usual maps that are designed for aircraft engagements. While being smaller than our other maps, this map size is still unequal among tank sims.

(...)

In addition to 16 times more detailed landscape, we also implemented the knock-over-trees tech which in some aspects is more advanced than in competing titles. The terrain texturing has also been improved to make creating believable settlements and villages possible.

 

I'm curious it would be possible to make Flying Circus 100x100km map with this more detailed standard since WW I planes fly far lower and slower than WW II counterparts so more detailed map would have it's use.

cheers

[Blooddawn1942]

3 hours ago, bies said:

In Tank Crew DevDiary Han stated:

and

 

I'm curious it would be possible to make Flying Circus 100x100km map with this more detailed standard since WW I planes fly far lower and slower than WW II counterparts so more detailed map would have it's use.

cheers

As far as a map size 100x100km goes, a higher level of detail would be great. 

But I have strong hopes, that the map will be expanded with hopefully more releases to come. So a standard level of details that we are used to from the actual BoK map would be enough to make me happy. 

[Cybermat47]

3 hours ago, bies said:

I'm curious it would be possible to make Flying Circus 100x100km map with this more detailed standard since WW I planes fly far lower and slower than WW II counterparts so more detailed map would have it's use.

cheers

 

Actually, I think that WWI aircraft, at least later on, flew at around 3000m - the usual altitude of aircraft on WWII’s Eastern Front.

 

Anyway, speaking of maps, what do you guys want to see in FCV2? Personally, I’m hoping for the Italian Front. Rise of Flight gives us the Western Front, part of the 1st Battle of the Atlantic, and part of the Eastern Front, so the only missing WWI theatre with large-scale air to air combat is the Italian Front.

 

There’d be great aircraft on such a map, too. The Hansa-Brandenburg D.I and C.I, OEFFAG D.III (an improved Albatros D.III), Lloyds, Ansaldo SVA, and Capronis would be awesome to fly. Plus, as the Italians flew the SPAD VII, Nieuport scouts, and Caudron G.4, and the RFC flew Sopwith Camels on the Italian Front, there’d be a nice amount of interchangeability between the two plane sets and maps.

 

Here’s some artwork of Godwin von Brumowski, Austria-Hungary’s ace of aces.

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by FFS_Cybermat47

[klebor]

I forgot Italy and Japan fought against Germans in WWI. In WWI Germans fought agains whole world combined 

[Zooropa_Fly]

Who knows what we'll get, but I'd guess we'll get most of (or all) the rest of RoF's planes bumped over in the next couple of volumes. (be nice to get new ones as the 'premium planes')

Then if it's all going well we might get new arena's and planes beyond that.. bit of luck !

S!

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 7/4/2018 at 5:15 PM, LsV_Trupobaw said:

My money is on Ypres/Arras/Somme-Cappy front sector, and surrounding area, for obvious reasons. Ypres is about 100 km north from Cappy, too. 

I so wish we had set a betting pool now ? ... I feel precogniscent.

It is a good map. For RoF / Wargrounds MP vets, it's area most covered by MP maps. Bloody April event area, Bruay, Warfuse, Beaucamp/Lille, Cappy, Jasta5 Octoberfest ... the map spans from "Ghost River" to "Stubby River". 

Edited July 6, 2018 by LsV_Trupobaw

[SeaW0lf]

I think it is a bit tight on both ends. They could give up on Lille and have plenty of lateral space on Cappy / St Quentin and Arras. I'm no mission builder, but this way it seems that the real map is Arras, because there are compromises both on Cappy / St Quentin and especially Lille. If they give up on Lille though we could have two fronts with lots of space instead of one.

[Zooropa_Fly]

Lille and surrounding area is probably my favourite place on the RoF map, so I can't wait to see what it looks like on the new one.

 

I wonder when we'll get The Island ?

[J2_Trupobaw]

16 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

I wonder when we'll get The Island ?

With PTO ?

[ZachariasX]

16 minutes ago, LsV_Trupobaw said:

With PTO ?

You said Carriers?

[Zooropa_Fly]

Watching Pups taking off from ships scares the crap outta me.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Zooropa_Fly

[J2_Trupobaw]

This may well happen, all the pieces will be there .

[Cybermat47]

15 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Watching Pups taking off from ships cares the crap outta me.

 

It should... this is a photo taken shortly after the one Zacharias posted.

 

 

Squadron Commander Edwin H. Dunning, the first man to land on a moving aircraft carrier, drowned to death in the cockpit of his Pup.

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

Squadron Commander Edwin H. Dunning, the first man to land on a moving aircraft carrier, drowned to death in the cockpit of his Pup.

He overshot. The crew tried to hold him, but didn't manage. Nowadays you need lot more deck personel to hold an F-18E like that.

[SeaW0lf]

5 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

I wonder when we'll get The Island ?

 

Oh, that's a must 

[HagarTheHorrible]

7 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

You said Carriers?

 

Is that a home defense anti Zep gun ?

 

With a moving carrier I would have thought landing and taking off, in a Pup, would have been more Harrier than F18.

[ZachariasX]

1 hour ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

 

Is that a home defense anti Zep gun ?

 

With a moving carrier I would have thought landing and taking off, in a Pup, would have been more Harrier than F18.

Looks like a Lewis gun to me, but not sure. But since it was the Fleet, it must be Zeppelin defense, as there were no Gothas yet.

 

Harrier? Would be a different sight having a bunch of sailors trying to hold a hovering Harrier instead of some holding a towline to trap an F-18.

 

It’s landing here. I think he tried to land for the simple fact that in the picture series, you can see the entire party rushing after the plane to grab it. You certainly wouldn‘t do that in a touch and go.

 

You can also see that the wind gusts are such that the plane is at the very edge of controlability (or beyond). He applies full left ailerons to keep it level, indicating a severe wind turbulences across the deck. You have to keep in mind that applying ailerons in a tail dragger in the final approach usually (and to this day) leads to sommersaulting the plane once it „settles“. He wouldn‘t do that to maintain course unless he crossed controlls and approached with a constant banking of the plane to keep it straight with the ship.

 

The ship is steering into the wind, you can see that the pilot didn‘t apply rudder during the approach and he didn’t cross controls. He must have received an upward windgust from the air flowing over the ship, lifting him like the Albatrosses (birds!) that can almost park themselves over the bow of a moving ship. Howver, after not coming to a stop and passing the deck, he lost ground effect and he stalled as soon as the wind vortices blew him clear of the deck and spun into the water. It is remarkable that he maintains centered controls while the plane gets blown off the deck...

 

He must have hit the water 90 degrees or so tilted to the right:

Falling off the deck of such a ship is often enough lethal.

 

But sometimes, it did work out:

Also that pilot must work the ailerons considerably. Rudder is straight...

 

 

But all that is what they had batsmen for later on... RIP.

Edited July 6, 2018 by ZachariasX
pics

[HagarTheHorrible]

If the ship was making any headway then the Pup was probably, even with wheels on the deck, close to producing sufficient lift to tip it over, the difference, especially for a Pup, was probably very small and any gust over the foredeck would have been, and was, fatal.  Judging by the fact that one man is reaching up to grab the aircraft, even at 6' off the deck,  it must have been close to stationary relative to the carrier.

 

I reckon an anti Zep gun, or at least configuration, because the Lewis is set at 45 deg.

Edited July 6, 2018 by HagarTheHorrible

[ZachariasX]

4 minutes ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

If the ship was making any headway then the Pup was probably, even with wheels on the deck, close to producing sufficient lift to tip it over, the difference, especially for a Pup, was probably very small and any gust over the foredeck would have been and were disasters us.

 

I reckon an anti Zep gun, or at least configuration, because the Lewis is set at 45 deg.

The ship was most likely making headway. The personel on the front right trying to catch the plane was barely starting to run, but you can see on their jackets that they are exposed to considerable headwind. But if the ship is only making 20 knots, a moderate wind gust would make the Pup lift off. However, you can see that the weather is not very English, but fair. Also, first tries for carrier landings should be reserved for fair weather conditions. This includes wind. Thus, I assume the ship must have been going at high cruise speed to make up for such a gust.

 

But the anti Zep gun would make sense.

[Cynic_Al]

On 7/4/2018 at 10:24 AM, Blooddawn1942 said:

Since we have a thread related to the aircraft and their FMs, I see the need to discuss the upcoming map in a separate space. 

 

 

Do we know what the attitude will be towards what is generally referenced as 'Ambient FLAK'? The player consensus appears always to have been against it.

[Chief_Mouser]

8 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Do we know what the attitude will be towards what is generally referenced as 'Ambient FLAK'? The player consensus appears always to have been against it.

 

Once we got mods I always turned it off. It was too wide-ranging and gave the impression of being 'archied' on your own side of the lines. Besides, who's going to be firing shells into the air when there is no enemy about? No ambient flak for me, please.

[Legioneod]

9 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

 

Once we got mods I always turned it off. It was too wide-ranging and gave the impression of being 'archied' on your own side of the lines. Besides, who's going to be firing shells into the air when there is no enemy about? No ambient flak for me, please.

I don't think ambient flak will be in-game. I don't think its even in the current BoX, the flak I see in game is always shooting at a target.

Hopefully ambient flak is a thing of the past.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Legioneod

[HagarTheHorrible]

[edited]

 

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Rather than textures, I wonder if the OP in that thread was thinking more along the lines of map clutter or complexity rather than simply 4K textures.  Jason has said that he hopes that the smaller, but more detailed Tank Crew map might be able to accommodate aircraft to some extent as well.  This gives me two thoughts,  1) if the map is mod-able so that WW1 assets ( hangers etc) can be swapped in, in place of WW2 era props by moders then, with the added detail it might make a very good substitute FC map.

                                                               2) The FC map is also going to be relatively small, maybe the same approx size,. I wonder if given the nature of WW1 aviation, it might be also made to this level of detail or if it will be much the same as the other BoX maps ?  I assume that much of the map asset work for BoBp will also tie in with FC (buildings, bridges etc).

 

I appreciate this might seem unimportant or a little fanciful but VR makes a large bound in the perception of the environment around you, speed and so forth.  A more cluttered landscape, with VR, improves that perception even more.

Edited July 12, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin