Overwhelmed

[JohnnyCarr]

Quite annoyed by the lack of a simple instruction manual.Sifting through pages and pages of forum threads many that seem to turn into debates.Hours spent in button mapping trying to figure out what everything does and how to tune the joystick functions.What is it Im actually supposed to be doing in those missions?Hours watching youtube videos looking for any hints or clues what to do with all this.Guessing and assuming,more often than not wrong.Mapping multiple functions to a single button then attempting to zoom in but ending up bailing out.(I had to laugh.)

 

I didn't expect this to be easy and quite frankly it wouldnt be very rewarding if it were but after a week of owning BOM,upgrading my equipment to CH I don't feel that Im any farther ahead than I was when I started with controller setup and understanding what to do during missions.I killed a truck this morning and that was satisfying and have managed to dispatch a few planes but that aiming site is dancing around like a fruit fly.

 

I have so many questions that I wouldn't know where to start.Right now I just closed the sim out frustrated and needed to vent.It's obviously not for newcomers.

 

Sorry to whine but it's all a little overwhelming.

 

 

[JimTM]

See the IL-2 User Manual and more resources here.

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

There are a LOT of aids at the here forum page that JimTM provided but you will not find many of them simple. I realize that it can feel overwhelming but IL2 will require some concerted effort to fully enjoy.

 

If you think learning the basics of the game is overwhelming... attempt some mission building with the Mission Editor. ?

[dkoor]

Try to concentrate to a specific fighter plane.

Game has reached that level that there are actually quite substantial differences between piloting I-16 and Bf-109F for example.

By specializing to certain type, you ensure that your learning curve wont be longer than it needs to be... simply avoid confusion when switching types.

Multi-engined bombers have more engine management and also you are dealing with more playable stations + fiddling with cargo/bombs, so I guess it isn't worth at this point.

Mastering engine management on certain type could be a great way to progress further to all other types.

At least this is what'd I do in your place.

Edited June 27, 2018 by dkoor

[JohnnyCarr]

Thanks fellas,,Im off to my daughters high school graduation ceremony but I plan on checking that link out in a few hours when I get home.

 

Personally I think its a fantastic piece of software and I know the support is here in house.

 

Good thing I'm pig headed stubborn as I think I will need it lol.

[Adger]

Dont run before you can walk JohhnyCarr..Honestly take your time do it bit by bit pal.

 

Pick a plane you like..watch Requim.s videos https://www.youtube.com/user/RequiemBoS/videos

 

Start with a Quick mission just you against no enemy up in the air then you can pause/unpause whilst setting up your joystick until "you" feel its right.

This sim just needs a bit of time,but its worth persevering it really is.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Welcome JohnnyCarr!!!!!

 

You’re in the right place for support!  And people on multiplayer servers are quite helpful as well.  You’ll get the old “ctrl+e” to open the map, which you should know by now is the default for bailing out   

like the others said, start with one plane to get the hang of things... for many it’s the 109s with minimal engine management, but for me it was the lagg-3...

have you any previous experience with any other sims, or is this your first?

[ShamrockOneFive]

Coming from years on the original IL-2, I spent a couple of outings just taking off and flying circuits around the airfield when I first got into this sim before I worked up the courage to go take on some enemy aircraft. It certainly takes a while. I've spent the better part of a year understanding aircraft modules on DCS which is even more complex.

 

Definitely break things down into small pieces. Just practice take-off and landing. Or take-off, fire some cannon rounds into a tree somewhere, then land. Don't jump into a major combat zone and expect to wing it (punny :)) on the first go. It's a worthwhile process that you have to go through to understand a sim.

[JonRedcorn]

The controls are indeed a pain to setup but they aren't really that bad, just set up all the oil rads on the same buttons, all the water rads on the same buttons, all the prop pitch's and similar things to the same buttons. It will tell you when you have a key setup for another control with the little orange box in the key windows, if you hover over it it will tell you what other controls are mapped to those buttons. Once you get it setup properly learning to actually fly shouldn't be too hard.

[Rjel]

One suggestion I would make if you are new to flight sims is set up a QMB with multiple flights. Use the extra flights on your side as targets. You can obviously set them up as any type of plane you might like. Of course they won't maneuver but you can get used to seeing them from different angles and ranges and practice your gunnery. Use a Ju-52 as the opposing flight so that some sharp AI fighter pilot doesn't sneak up on you while you practice.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

LOL try DCS.

 

 

But for real just start by getting the basics set up, like stick, rudder, guns, throttle and gear. Just fly about and get used to trying to land etc and then slowly add to that! Like someone else said try to walk before running!!! Im sure we can help you in THIS thread if you want.

 

We was all at your stage at one time but please remember this is a sim/game so there is some level of study required.

Edited June 28, 2018 by AeroAce

[JohnnyCarr]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment and offer advice.

 

I'm a sim racing veteran.I bought my first PC in 1996 when I saw that you could race nascar on a PC.Then it was a 16 MB program and $100 wheel and pedals set.Now I have 1000's (lots and lots of 1000's)invested in equipment and race at iRacing where one car is probably 16 MB.

 

In 2003 or 2004 after winning a nascar league championship I ventured off into flight simulation with a sim called Microsoft combat flight simulator 2 which was a pacific theatre based sim.I joined a squadron and after proving I could land on an aircraft carrier I moved onto formation flying with the squadron.We would go on missions much the same as Im sure they do today.I work long days in the Vancouver film industry and had a young family so eventually all simming took a back seat to that for awhile.

 

First I got back into sim racing and started accumulating hardware then I got the flying bug again and picked up a copy of IL 2 Gold pack which came with forgotten battles and the ace expansion pack.I flew that for awhile but I was running 3 monitors by then and i dont think the sim was designed for that so it fell by the wayside.

 

Fast forward a few more years and I picked up x-plane 10,a saitek pro cessna yoke with the throttle quadrant,a second throttle quadrant and saitek pro rudder pedals.I chose that sim because it was supported by sim commander 4,a program that runs my GS-4 G force simulator chair and 6 buttkicker shakers.

 

All this was not much more than dabbling in the flight sim genre.All my combat flying was with a twist rudder on the joystick so Im still getting used to foot pedals.I still try to twist the handle lol.

 

2 years ago I got the oculus rift for racing something Im absolutely impressed with.I was starting to think flight sim again lately so I googled best flight sim for VR and IL 2 BOF came up as the consensus choice.Last week I purchased BOM for $69 (over $100 canadian)((5 minutes ago I see they shaved $50 of the price lol))and started trying to sort all this out.I really should have posted earlier but theres a wealth of information here and on youtube and Im quite stubborn.

 

I have another cockpit on the way to house my flight sim hardware complete with several tactile base shakers and my new CH fighterstick and pro throttle arrived yesterday so Im in it for the long haul this time.

 

If I won the lottery I wouldnt buy a race car I would buy an airplane lol.

 

That BOS manual is absolutely awesome.Thank you very much for linking it.I tried googling one but kept coming up on  a dead end road.

 

I agree entirely about the fly one plane concept.That is also preached in sim racing.It only makes sense.

 

Thanks again for all the replies.I will spend a few hours tomorrow digesting things and trying out  the advice mentioned here.

 

Sorry about the long winded post.Just giving a little background on previous flight experience and myself.

 

[CrazyDuck]

Hi Johnny!

 

I can relate fully to your experience - it's not just mapping a few buttons and being ready to take on an entire Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht, it's rather the opposite: Simply mounting a manually controled (read: Russian) aircraft, taking off, climbing to 30.000 ft, descending and landing successfully is already a mission that takes an enormous amount of knowledge, experience and skill (although due to Dunning-Kruger it might not seem so to experienced fliers), let alone trying to shoot at somebody and survive at that!

 

So yeah, learning curve is insane, but if I can add anything meaningful to the thread, it's the community. Yeah, we're a wild bunch of freaky enthusiasts capable of making this place look like a hen house, but you'll be amazed at how helpful, kind and knowledgeable people here are. So whenever facing a problem with no obvious and/or immediate solution, just tweet about it around here and there will be people around helping you off in no time. 

 

Welcome aboard - and abandon all hopes!

[Finkeren]

Welcome to the forum Johnny, always welcome to ask questions here. As you can see, there are loads of people here waiting to help.

 

The one thing that would help newcomers to this sim would be small tooltips during controls setup, explaining what each of the controls actually does and which planes it applies to, it can be a a bit daunting to figure it all out right off the bat.

[Soilworker]

Hey Johnny, 

 

If you're still having trouble setting up your controls here's my tip: 

 

-Make a list of what controls you need. 

-Take note of which controls you need quick access to. 

-Take note of which controls you don't want to easily hit. (ie Eject.) 

-Make a diagram of your joystick, etc.'s button layout in ink. 

-Define a Shift button. 

-Using pencil (so you can change your mind) add in what commands you want with which buttons and add shifted commands in brackets (maybe you say parentheses) for things like Eject and Reset VR Position, etc..

-Hang onto this drawing for when you find all the other controls you thought you didn't need! ?

 

As to the control sensitivity, try playing around with the axis curves. (Or build a joystick extension...) 

 

I hope this is in someway helpful! 

[InProgress]

Il2 isn't as hard as it looks like, it just seems like this at the beginning. What I did at the beginning was pick one plane (ju87 for me) and just focus on it, forget about all others, learn basic. Ju87 is quite easy and it has manual controls of all radiators and pitch so you can learn a lot there. I made an instruction, printed it and had near me while flying. I had all important key bindings there, picture of cockpit with every instrument named and what it's for. After a while you remember all this. At the beginning I couldn't hit anything, but in time it will come. Nothing to worry about, just focus on one plane, learn basic, fly alone in quick battles, practice take off, landing, flying and shooting. It will be fine.

[Herne]

@JohnnyCarr I recommend using the Quick Mission Builder, pick the single plane on the map and that will basically give you free flight. Select start from parked in the set up, with expert settings.

 

Expert gives you the complex engine management, but it's worth learning from the start so that you don't have to re -learn it later. I started with a 109. It made setting up my keybindings easier, because I only bound things that I needed, and you need a lot less for a 109 as things like radiators, and prop rpm are all automatic. Get used to the taxi take off and landing, and when you are comfortable, add in some combat, You'll quickly remember where all the current things you have bound are, and when you fly different airframes, you can add additional bindings as and when you need them. 

I found this much easier than trying to bind everything all at once and then forgetting where things were bound

[Lusekofte]

Seems to me you do not take in account the fact that you are maneuvering a WW2 fighter, witch in reality needed a lot of muzzle power , but in our case only need fingertip maneuvering. Are you sure you're not giving the controls too much input? It tend to lead into a constant recover by counter earlier stick movements. A usual mistake are compensating with a lot of rudder. 

Make sure the air bubble is straight when moving into a target

[PatrickAWlson]

Start small.  Many have said focus on one plane - that is key.  Don't try to map everything all at once.  Fly the plane a bit with the defaults.  See what feels clumsy and what you use frequently and then map those things.  Why worry about turret mapping if you are flying a 109?

 

Fly the plane in QMB.  Start with no opposition.  Take off and land.  Do some aerobatics if you are in a fighter.  Strafe or bomb a ground target or three.  Then add opposition.  Get to the point where you can at least defeat one enemy fighter.

 

Now do something more with the plane that you have been learning.  You can do single missions.  Start a campaign: lots of choices (In game, scripted, and PWCG to name a few).

 

Honestly, I have really just flown a small number of planes for any period of time: Me110E-2, Me109 F-2, Me109 F-4, FW190 A-3 and FW 190 A-5.  I have barely  touched manual engine management.  I do not fly online (did so once - flew around a bit in an IL2 and then got killed).  I have dive bombed a few times in QMB. Level bombed only once or twice.  In short, I have yet to play 80% of this game in any meaningful way.  Instead of being frustrated (which does happen often enough too  ) I try to see at it as "look at what's waiting for me".

 

 

[blitze]

Yeah, with stick movements, it is a case of feel the plane through maneuvers, not yank.  Not much different to handling a steering wheel at high speed, less is more and saves you having to try and recover from too much input.

 

The suggestion to workout a list of needed controls and what your joystick has available button wise is a good one.  Then it's a case of mapping which can be confusing as some aircraft have different mappings for oil and radiators than others and other engine management things.

 

It takes time but the rewards in this sim are great as you master it.  I would suggest taking a Lagg 3 as your learning steed as it is simple and relatively stable especially with take offs and landings.  Work your way from there.  The Requiem Youtube tutorials are great too.

[JohnnyCarr]

Thanks again everyone for the comments and advice.I've read all the comments a few times actually.

 

When I have more questions specific to a certain topic I will make a new thread with a title clearly stating what I would like to know so others searching for the same answers down the road will have an easy time finding what theyre looking for.

 

I will be starting out fresh this morning taking what you all say here into account.For me taking off is a relatively simple exercise but landing can get a little rough on the wing tips if you know what I mean so I will start there.

 

I will go over all the info left by JimTM and if I need help after that I wont hesitate to ask.

[JimTM]

Enjoy the journey JohnnyCarr. Other than the IL-2 Manual, I recommend starting with Requiem's videos. 

[ACG_KaiLae]

Might want to take a look:

 

 

Also, Sheriff runs a nice discord where if you have questions, answers can be had: https://discord.gg/CWn2TyK 

[JohnnyCarr]

well its been quite the morning with IL2.

I chose the 109,remapped all the settings and made a diagram.Then I went into single player and nothing work lol.Nada.I made up a few new words and slowly but surely got it all working.(I think)

 

I took off in the 109 this time in expert mode.I kept hear this knocking noise every time I looked around,it was a few minute before I realized that was my head banging of the canopy lol.

 

I couldnt trim the 109 for level flight.I kept pitching nose down.I had tried mapping both trim and 109 stabilizers to no effect.Im about to try again after a break.

 

I managed to land the 109 without damaging the wing tips and hope the engine didnt suffer much damage when I smashed the prop lol.

 

 

Then I notice that I didnt buy BOM but instead I have BOK loaded lol but not until after emailing 777 about the sudden price drop of BOM.

 

My 59 year old learning curve is feeling rather flat right now.Doses of humility are good for the soul and I'm getting my fair share.

 

Hi Kai_lae and thanks for the video.I just opened it and saw it was a configuration guide.I'm going to watch it now before attempting anything else.I have discord on my PC for accessing race setups used in iRacing cars.I will look into that.

Edited June 28, 2018 by JohnnyCarr

[Herne]

oh one more thing about engine management:-

 

press "o" (that's o for oscar, not zero ) and it will bring up the map. on the right side you have the mission briefing. at the top of that you will see a "specification" tab. You can use this to check what the engine ratings are, for nominal, combat, and emergency power.
 

I guess this matters more if you choose to set up your interface so that you have the tech chat off. It's probably better if you leave it on to start with while you get used to everything.

[seafireliv]

Focusing on one aircraft is always the best way to start. Sounds like you need to trim your aircraft a bit too, to avoid the nose wobble.

 

Hope your daughter`s graduation went well. Always an exciting day for her.

Edited June 29, 2018 by seafireliv

[JohnnyCarr]

Having the BOS manual and all the info JimTM posted,the advice from everyone here and the vid Kai_Lae posted has been invaluable.I've managed to set my equipment up and map functions for the most part to the tweaking stage.I still have a few issues like getting zoom in and out to work and I'm not altogether sure the radiator cooling vents are opening and closing on the 109 yet but other than that I'm well on the way to understanding more.

 

The IL BoX configuration Kai_lae posted had a lot of good information particular on setting all trim functions like stabilizers and trim tabs to the same buttons.(edited to remove misinformation)

 

I took all the advice posted here by members seriously.Use one plane,takes off and landing exercises,shooting trees,expert mode,gentle on the controls and shooting Stukas.Drawing a diagram of mapped functions is very helpful.I've noticed improvement in all areas.Understanding how to set up pitch,roll and yaw curves and making slight adjustments has nullified the fruit fly aiming sight syndrome.I can take out the train and other ground targets now.

 

Now it's just hours of practice learning how to fly and working on muscle memory so it becomes second nature.I practice loops,barrel rolls,split S's and immelmanns though Im not always pointing in the right direction in the end but its a start.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by JohnnyCarr

[JonRedcorn]

I don't believe the cinematic view option has any effect on the rift, however limit VR view does. With that on the head movement is limited in the cockpit, Also when you start moving backwards that's just the camera the plane isn't actually moving in 3d space. Also I believe all but the E series 109's have automatic water and oil rads.

[JohnnyCarr]

2 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

I don't believe the cinematic view option has any effect on the rift, however limit VR view does. With that on the head movement is limited in the cockpit, Also when you start moving backwards that's just the camera the plane isn't actually moving in 3d space. Also I believe all but the E series 109's have automatic water and oil rads.

Yes You're right.I don't know why I thought that.Thank you for correcting me.I will edit that out of my post as its misinformation.

 

Mine went limited view as soon as I went expert realism.Bumping my head on the canopy is annoying but Im all for true realism.

 

I'm still mapping pilot head zoom in and out to buttons without results.I had it working once before I defaulted and remapped everything.

[dburne]

34 minutes ago, JohnnyCarr said:

Yes You're right.I don't know why I thought that.Thank you for correcting me.I will edit that out of my post as its misinformation.

 

Mine went limited view as soon as I went expert realism.Bumping my head on the canopy is annoying but Im all for true realism.

 

I'm still mapping pilot head zoom in and out to buttons without results.I had it working once before I defaulted and remapped everything.

 

It's different setting for VR, there is a zoom and a re-center that can be mapped to buttons - believe it is maybe under camera controls?

Both of those are very handy to have mapped to a button.

Edited June 29, 2018 by dburne

[JohnnyCarr]

3 hours ago, dburne said:

 

It's different setting for VR, there is a zoom and a re-center that can be mapped to buttons - believe it is maybe under camera controls?

Both of those are very handy to have mapped to a button.

 

I found the zoom and youre right,it's different for VR

 

Settings/key mapping/pilot head control/VR camera zoom(hold)

 

I don't know how I missed that.Might be because it was clearly named and self explanatory

[JonRedcorn]

Johnny if you ever jump into multiplayer you are going to absolutely need that mod they speak of in the virtual reality forum, I will gladly help you get that going, it's made my online experience go from not engaging targets due to not wanting to kill my teammates to hunting prey from 3k.

[JohnnyCarr]

7 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Johnny if you ever jump into multiplayer you are going to absolutely need that mod they speak of in the virtual reality forum, I will gladly help you get that going, it's made my online experience go from not engaging targets due to not wanting to kill my teammates to hunting prey from 3k.

Which mod are you referring to?I have 3DMigoto that I use to get rid of the prop visual.I dont know anything else about it.

 

I would be cannon fodder in  multiplayer right now but will eventually get there.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, JohnnyCarr said:

Which mod are you referring to?I have 3DMigoto that I use to get rid of the prop visual.I dont know anything else about it.

 

I would be cannon fodder in  multiplayer right now but will eventually get there.

 

You can also disable ASW for the Rift ( I use Oculus Tray Tool with a profile for the game) to get rid of that prop visual.

Also gets rid of the ghosting of the planes as they fly by.

On my system I have found I prefer having ASW set to off.  

 

I do not run the mod, but hear it really helps in the spotting and id department. I just prefer not having any mods myself.  But I only fly single player and have no shame, I will toggle labels on and off when needed.

Edited June 30, 2018 by dburne

[JonRedcorn]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

You can also disable ASW for the Rift ( I use Oculus Tray Tool with a profile for the game) to get rid of that prop visual.

Also gets rid of the ghosting of the planes as they fly by.

On my system I have found I prefer having ASW set to off.  

 

I do not run the mod, but hear it really helps in the spotting and id department. I just prefer not having any mods myself.  But I only fly single player and have no shame, I will toggle labels on and off when needed.

It's impossible to play MP without the extra zoom you just cannot ID.

3 hours ago, JohnnyCarr said:

Which mod are you referring to?I have 3DMigoto that I use to get rid of the prop visual.I dont know anything else about it.

 

I would be cannon fodder in  multiplayer right now but will eventually get there.

The mod enables you to zoom in up to 1.5x, 5x and 10x. Which makes it much easier to see what you are shooting at. I went from no kills for hours and just staying out of engagements due to being unable to ID aircraft to actually getting kills.

[dkoor]

23 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

It's impossible to play MP without the extra zoom you just cannot ID.

Even on FR settings? Not sure how that one went with full real crowd.

I sincerely doubt they put binoculars in Me-109 as part of standard equipment.

Edited June 30, 2018 by dkoor

[JonRedcorn]

38 minutes ago, dkoor said:

Even on FR settings? Not sure how that one went with full real crowd.

I sincerely doubt they put binoculars in Me-109 as part of standard equipment.

I am playing in a rift, if you don't use the mod you can't really ever get a good look at the aircraft so you never know if it's friendly or enemy. I could care less about realism when everyone else is using fake head twisting on a dime and being able to check their six with the slight tilt of the head, I have to actually turn my head all the way around and look myself. So having the zoom is incredibly useful.

[BubiHUN]

The best choice would be if you ask an experienced player who can guide you around. 

[SCG_Schneemann]

Also, since you have CH stuff, get a 6 slider throttle quadrant if you haven't yet. In VR, I can't live without mine. I use Joy2Key for a shift button on my stick, and using CH manager to sync everything, it gives me double the buttons. I have everything mapped for bombers and fighters... just feel by braille and no keyboard.

[dburne]

8 minutes ago, 1./JG54_Schneemann said:

Also, since you have CH stuff, get a 6 slider throttle quadrant if you haven't yet. In VR, I can't live without mine. I use Joy2Key for a shift button on my stick, and using CH manager to sync everything, it gives me double the buttons. I have everything mapped for bombers and fighters... just feel by braille and no keyboard.

 

I have that 6 slider quadrant also, comes in very handy in addition to my Virpil stick and Warthog throttle. Extra buttons on it are nice too.