Submarines

[TP_Jacko]

Will submarines fire torpedoes. When on the surface I can get a sub to attack but has anyone got a torpedo to be fired. I will try wit a sub submerged

[Nocke]

Got them firing torpedoes, do not remember a special trick beeing needed. I stopped using them, though, because they are not/can not be attacked by anybody when submerged. Subs attacking while beeing surfaced are silly. Subs attacking submerged are invincible, apparently.

[Gambit21]

They fire on their own so long as waypoints are set to “Low” priority.

 

Crazy distances and angles too - set their AI to “Low” as well.

[TP_Jacko]

Well I have it all working now. Subs can fire torpedoes  at periscope depth and the surface.  At least when moving

 

On 6/21/2018 at 11:05 PM, 216th_Nocke said:

Got them firing torpedoes, do not remember a special trick beeing needed. I stopped using them, though, because they are not/can not be attacked by anybody when submerged. Subs attacking while beeing surfaced are silly. Subs attacking submerged are invincible, apparently.

 

Nocke, Actually I found I could kill a sub under the surface with a 250Kg bomb. I had one stationary at a way point.

Its not easy. Maybe I had a bit of luck as well.

 

It would be nice if a smoke flare could be dropped to mark the spot if its spotted in time so the attackers could drop a load of bombs.

Edited June 23, 2018 by TP_Jacko

[Nocke]

What annoyed me most is that AI controlled units seem to ignore them when submerged or at periscope depth. May I hope I was wrong with that too?

[DD_Arthur]

17 minutes ago, 216th_Nocke said:

What annoyed me most is that AI controlled units seem to ignore them when submerged or at periscope depth. 

 

But...but...isn't that the whole point of being a submarine?  You know - sink beneath the water and become invisible?

[TP_Silk]

At periscope depth submarines would often still be visible from above. Think of shots of the coastline where you can still see rocks and other features under shallow water - that's essentially the depth that submarines would be at when operating their periscopes. After that it would depend on water conditions and clarity.

[Nocke]

also they seem to be ignored even by destroyers, which should have sonar, and depth charges. I know, lot of work for devs. Just saying, as it is now, I cant find a useful role for subs in missions. Except as a target in harbor, perhaps.

[Thad]

On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, Gambit21 said:

They fire on their own so long as waypoints are set to “Low” priority.

 

Crazy distances and angles too - set their AI to “Low” as well.

Nice to know.

 

I strongly suspect and expect that there will eventually be improvements to the naval aspects of the game .

Edited June 24, 2018 by Thad

[Gambit21]

12 hours ago, 216th_Nocke said:

...as it is now, I cant find a useful role for subs in missions. Except as a target in harbor, perhaps.

 

That's not the case at all.

[Nocke]

I am very willing to get convinced. Do you see a possibility of having subs attacking at periscope depth, while getting themselves attacked by defending AI?

[TP_Silk]

I recently crafted a mission for the Tangmere Pilots whereby we were to attack a Soviet port in Ju-88s covered by Bf-109s. The attack was timed to coincide with an attack by a group of German torpedo boats and it looked lovely approaching the target area and seeing those boats speeding into the attack below us. There's no reason why that shouldn't have been a submarine instead.

 

Incidentally I looked recently and could find no instances of any submarines of either side being lost to air action in the Black Sea. Of course it is possible that this is because I didn't look hard enough or in the right places, but it does illustrate that you shouldn't necessarily be thinking about attacking and sinking submarines that are a part of any mission or indeed that they should necessarily be on the opposing side.

[Nocke]

It depends certainly on what you want to do. I was working on a sort of sea battle by AI, and it was weird to see the subs happily sinking anything enemy afloat while beeing completely ignored by their victims.

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

Here ya go Nocke. Play around with it to suit your needs. Pe2 attacks and sinks Sub or Sub will round the corner and sink freighter.

Try sticking a Patrol Craft/MG/Anti-tank/Artillery whatever and use same logic as the Pe-2 to attack Sub.

SubTest.zip

 

Good Luck with your Mission Building,

Tip

[Pict]

On 6/21/2018 at 11:05 PM, 216th_Nocke said:

Subs attacking while beeing surfaced are silly

 

"Until the advent of nuclear power, submarines were designed to operate on the surface most of the time and submerge only for evasion or for daylight attacks."

 

From an interesting Wikipedia article on submarine snorkel / schnorkel

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_snorkel

[Nocke]

Thx Tip, good to see that, I had not tried planes!

I will try again to see if I can get a ship to attack a submerged enemy submarine now.

Concerning that link posted by Pict about the Snorkel: Do I understand correctly you want to say submarines did attack e.g. convoys beeing in surfaced state, before the snorkel came into use? I always thought they would be on electrical drive and periscope depth when attacking, but might be completely wrong. Perhaps I have just seen too many bad movies? Does anybody have some knowledge about this here?

[TP_Silk]

Submarines often attacked on the surface, especially at night or in low visibility. Remember, some of them even had deck guns and those certainly couldn't be used underwater and were not for defence so much as offence.

[Nocke]

so the basic idea of beeing a submarine would have been to be surfaced all the time, and only dive when beeing attacked?

[AndyJWest]

22 minutes ago, 216th_Nocke said:

so the basic idea of beeing a submarine would have been to be surfaced all the time, and only dive when beeing attacked?

 

More or less, though surface attacks became rarer later in the war as merchant ships began to carry guns. Prior the development of the snorkel, submarines were entirely reliant on battery power underwater, and even at the slowest speeds had very restricted range before they had to surface to recharge. Basically, they operated on the surface as much as they could, and only dived when they had to.  Anti-submarine patrols accomplished a great deal by merely forcing submarines underwater. Deprive an enemy of his mobility, and half the battle is won.

Edited June 24, 2018 by AndyJWest

[Yogiflight]

The main reasons, why they were operating as much as possible surfaced, were low power capacity of the batteries and low speed under water. So they only dived when attacked and for torpedo attacks in daylight. Daylight attacks surfaced were only for attacking with the guns or really bad weather with low visbility. The Schnorchel was mainly neccessary because of allies ships and aircrafts being equipped with radar.

[StaB/Tomio_VR***]

Do we need only to set -15 to altitude to submerge a sub ?

What do we need to sunk a submerged sub as some people managed ?

 

I completely miss it was possible and even if it's not possible to sink, this is something nice for animation...

Edited October 14, 2018 by StaB/Tomio_VR***

[Gambit21]

See my group in the groups sharing thread.