When will the developers add a command allowing you to ask position of your flight leader?

[Sky_Wolf]

I have been flying in career lately and the major thing that takes away from immersion is the fact that I cannot ask my flight leader or wingmates anything.

 

The flight leader and other wingmates will let the player know things like when an enemy unit is around and when we are near the mission area, but you can never ask their position in order to find them if lost. 

 

Will the developers add a command that allows the player to ask the flight leader and any wingmates what their position is? For example, "What is your position". The AI would then say something like "Grid XXY, Altitude 2000 meters" or "Direction 20 degrees, Horizontal distance 400 meters from your position, Altitude 2000 meters" or something. 

[AndyJWest]

It makes sense to be able to ask another pilot where he is. Asking him where you are, or what your relative bearing to him is, makes less sense. If you don't know where you are, how is anyone else supposed to know?

[Sky_Wolf]

Not sure why you would ask that question given what I have written. 

 

To clarify: Will the developers add a command that allows you to ask the flight leader and any wingmates what their position is? 

[RedKestrel]

6 minutes ago, Pericles said:

Not sure why you would ask that question given what I have written. 

 

To clarify: Will the developers add a command that allows you to ask the flight leader and any wingmates what their position is? 

AI improvements are listed as something being worked on in this development cycle as part of BoBp. So its possible we will be getting better ways to communicate with our AI flights in the future. If so, I can imagine one command might be something like asking for a leader's position. Or asking your home base for a vector home, like you could in Il-2 1946.

[LukeFF]

56 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Or asking your home base for a vector home, like you could in Il-2 1946.

 

The implementation of that in the original IL2 was horrible - you could effectively ignore all proper navigation procedures and continually spam the "vector to home base" command until your home airfield came into view - regardless of whether your plane had that sort of capability. If it ever is modeled here it needs to be modeled properly.

[FTC_Riksen]

Vector to home base command could be disabled in the previous il2 so it was not horrible implementation. You could disable that and retain the other flight coms. 

[RedKestrel]

9 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The implementation of that in the original IL2 was horrible - you could effectively ignore all proper navigation procedures and continually spam the "vector to home base" command until your home airfield came into view - regardless of whether your plane had that sort of capability. If it ever is modeled here it needs to be modeled properly.

I found it often sent me to the wrong base or even enemy territory! Got shot down by flak as I was on approach once lol.

 

in any case I’ve yet to fail in finding my home base after getting lost in this sim, even though I always used gps in 1946 before this.  Usually after flying around for a while you can find a group of landmarks that are unique enough to pinpoint your location.then it’s just a matter of hopping from landmark to landmark and find your way back. Not super efficient but it works when you can’t plot a proper course on the map.

 

Navigation by landmarks isn’t that hard with a bit of practice reading maps. That being said maps are a big part of my day job so I may not be typical.

 

 

 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I found it often sent me to the wrong base or even enemy territory! Got shot down by flak as I was on approach once lol.

 

in any case I’ve yet to fail in finding my home base after getting lost in this sim, even though I always used gps in 1946 before this.  Usually after flying around for a while you can find a group of landmarks that are unique enough to pinpoint your location.then it’s just a matter of hopping from landmark to landmark and find your way back. Not super efficient but it works when you can’t plot a proper course on the map.

 

Navigation by landmarks isn’t that hard with a bit of practice reading maps. That being said maps are a big part of my day job so I may not be typical.

 

That's why I love flying for a Black Sea unit on the Kuban map - navigation along the coast is as easy as cake.  

[danielprates]

12 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

That's why I love flying for a Black Sea unit on the Kuban map - navigation along the coast is as easy as cake.  

 

 It sure is. And delicious too. Sometimes I fly that map on my own just to see the sights. 

 

The OP mentions a change to radio commands that I too thinks is secondary or perhaps even completely dispensable, and a bad example of what to emulate from Il1946. However we have to agree that the current radio orders system needs some attention. I specially miss giving proper orders to my wing members that they will actually follow, something that 1946 got kinda right. Current ground attack routine is scripted instead of being an actual set of orders that they will follow. You arrive at the target, the game will order (in your place) for the attack to start, and they will carry out an attack until they feel it is over. I frequently want to override that and can't. I sometimes want them to stay with me a while longer in order to carry the attack from elsewhere. Or I want to abruptly end the attack and retreat. The radio commands will not let me to that and the result is often to suffer appalling losses. this is the kind of stuff that needs addressing!

[seafireliv]

15 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

The implementation of that in the original IL2 was horrible - you could effectively ignore all proper navigation procedures and continually spam the "vector to home base" command until your home airfield came into view - regardless of whether your plane had that sort of capability. If it ever is modeled here it needs to be modeled properly.

 

It worked very well and I miss it hugely.

 

16 hours ago, Pericles said:

I have been flying in career lately and the major thing that takes away from immersion is the fact that I cannot ask my flight leader or wingmates anything.

 

The flight leader and other wingmates will let the player know things like when an enemy unit is around and when we are near the mission area, but you can never ask their position in order to find them if lost. 

 

Will the developers add a command that allows the player to ask the flight leader and any wingmates what their position is? For example, "What is your position". The AI would then say something like "Grid XXY, Altitude 2000 meters" or "Direction 20 degrees, Horizontal distance 400 meters from your position, Altitude 2000 meters" or something. 

 

To me it seems when they made BOS they never really thought that they`d make a proper Singleplayer Campaign as quite a few obvious commands one could use are completely missing.

[Sky_Wolf]

So it seems most people agree that we should be able to ask our leader and/or wingmates what their position is. WW2 pilots with radios would have asked this kind of question a lot.  

 

danielprates seems to be the exception, thinking that this is "a bad example of what to emulate from il1946". His preference appears to be to order our wingmates to attack, stop attacking, head back to base, etc. I'm guessing he regards this as a "good example" compared to asking the AI what their position is.

 

In any case, these are all orders/commands that I would like to see implemented. 

[BB5000]

Transmitting radio commands should of course only be possible in the aircraft that were equipped with radio transmitters, not all were..

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

58 minutes ago, BB5000 said:

Transmitting radio commands should of course only be possible in the aircraft that were equipped with radio transmitters, not all were..

This is an issue as well, As of now, all aircraft in game have radio, even if it’s not modelled into the aircraft.

 

Hand signals would be great but who really uses them, they only last half a second, and you can’t tell if it’s a gesture or he’s just cleaning his goggles ...

 

perhaps if communication through flares was possible with ai if radios removed..

as a wing..

yellow- I’m lost  

white- RTB

 

as lead

green- rejoin(if lost)

red- x1 attack air/ x2attack ground

White- x1 hold position/ x2 RTB

 

 

Meh I dunno, 

so many possibilities...

 

i would like the auto-glasses-wipe removed and better head tracking with pilot model ..

 

wiling the goggles should be a command gesture to wipe off oil or rain  

[LukeFF]

9 hours ago, seafireliv said:

It worked very well and I miss it hugely.

 

It worked well if you didn't care about navigating properly.

[falle96]

As annoying as it was in 1946, I wouldn't mind my squadron leader screaming "What the hell? Stay on course!" at me every other second in BoX.

[Gambit21]

5 hours ago, FarflungWanderer said:

As annoying as it was in 1946, I wouldn't mind my squadron leader screaming "What the hell? Stay on course!" at me every other second in BoX.

 

I can make that happen now actually if you really wanted it. Subtitle presently, but with an actual guy screaming at you in Bodenplatte. I don’t bother with it yet because it’s extra logic to place and test.

[kalbuth]

On 6/19/2018 at 7:59 PM, Pericles said:

So it seems most people agree that we should be able to ask our leader and/or wingmates what their position is. WW2 pilots with radios would have asked this kind of question a lot.  

 

danielprates seems to be the exception, thinking that this is "a bad example of what to emulate from il1946". His preference appears to be to order our wingmates to attack, stop attacking, head back to base, etc. I'm guessing he regards this as a "good example" compared to asking the AI what their position is.

 

In any case, these are all orders/commands that I would like to see implemented. 

That's not what danielprates has having issues with, I think.

When you are lost, a radio call should not permit you to find your way back. If you are lost, the guy you are talking to has no clue either of where you are , so it's simply impossible for him to tell you " I'm 3 km east of you" , that would make no sense at all.

That' s the whole issue with 1946 Home Plate radio call.

 

Now, irl pilots would indeed ask for leader position and it's missing in bos. And the answer should, like irl, not reference the player, but a fixed point "I'm 2 clicks north of objective", even though sometimes others have eyes on you and should be able to tell you "I'm on your 2oclock".

Vector to leader is a nono in my book

[Sky_Wolf]

kalbuth, if you are interested in having reasonable discussions about things, you have to get better at reading what those you are engaging with have actually written. 

 

Simply read my first and second posts in this thread and you will find that your post was unreasonable and unfounded. 

[seafireliv]

21 hours ago, kalbuth said:

That's not what danielprates has having issues with, I think.

When you are lost, a radio call should not permit you to find your way back. If you are lost, the guy you are talking to has no clue either of where you are , so it's simply impossible for him to tell you " I'm 3 km east of you" , that would make no sense at all.

That' s the whole issue with 1946 Home Plate radio call.

 

Now, irl pilots would indeed ask for leader position and it's missing in bos. And the answer should, like irl, not reference the player, but a fixed point "I'm 2 clicks north of objective", even though sometimes others have eyes on you and should be able to tell you "I'm on your 2oclock".

Vector to leader is a nono in my book

 

This is all semantics and moving from the main point - getting back with your squadron.  I`m not against them doing it the way you say, just as long as they implement a way to find yourself back with your wingmen. If they can`t do that, then give me the old IL2 way which would be better than what we have now which is nothing.