People's Experience With CH Products

[Colonol]

Thinking of getting myself a CH HOTAS and I'm wondering how well the HOTAS works in this game as well as any issues people might have with it. Also I've heard that CH control manager can be quite finicky so is it required to use/calibrate CH products? 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

I have used a CH Pro Throttle since about 2005.  Actually I'm on my second one, the first lasted about 11 years.  I don't use CH CM as I found it problematic but some people have no issues.  I would change to another throttle if I could find one that does what the CH does but I haven't yet.  Am I happy with it?  It's OK.  It's plastic, there is no tension on the slider, which is flat.  What I do like are the number of hat switches and their ease of reach.  I have almost every control key linked to the buttons and don't use the keyboard when flying.  I am getting a VR unit soon and from what I see out there for other units, the CH still fits the bill as there are no wheels or toggles to have to find.  You would think after the number of years the thing has been around they would have made changes but no, still the  same 'ol vanilla throttle.

Edited June 11, 2018 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Sgt_Joch]

currently using CH fighterstick/pro throttle.

 

my first Hotas was a gameport CH fighterstick/pro throttle which I replaced with a Thrustmaster Cougar.

 

purchased a new USB CH fighterstick/pro throttle a few years and am very happy. You can find better sets if you have the budget, but for the most bang for your buck, you can't go wrong with CH.

[Colonol]

Thanks for the replies guys. Also did you guys calibrate your HOTAS before playing or just plug and play? What about the jitter that some people have reported I've heard that you need to run a script in the manager to get rid of it, do any of you guys have problems with it?

[Sgt_Joch]

it will work plug-and-play, but it works best if you calibrate through CH Manager, there is a short section at the beginning of the manual on how to calibrate properly.

 

If your CH Hotas is calibrated properly and the hardware is functioning properly, you will not get any "jitter".

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Just used the Window10 calibration.  No issues.

[Sokol1]

4 hours ago, Colonol said:

 Also I've heard that CH control manager can be quite finicky so is it required to use/calibrate CH products? 

 

You need use CH Manager at least for correctly calibrate their controllers - don'use the archaic Windows calibration.

 

Can by said that CH sticks is the most durable existent - but they are old tech now ("clunk" gimbal, potentiometers, obsolete 8 bits USB controller...).

 

But for what matter: they will work OK in IL-2 series, use CH Manager for "press joy button for press keys" is optional and not really need, but has some conveniences.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Sokol1

[Soarfeat]

CH Manager Calibration Tutorial

 

Cheers---

-S-

[Colonol]

Thanks for all the help guys. Do you have any tips for how to setup the CH HOTAS or anything like that?

[Ros_Beef]

Nothing complex, but for simple planes like in BOS and the DCS Mustang. You have enough switches on the throttle that I used the CH manger software to record my key presses to assign these to the default bindings for radiator/rpm and so forth. I use the throttle hat for elevator and rudder trim and the three back throttle buttons for trim reset.

In the end though Ive just assigned every button and hat to a Dx device in control manager and allocated them in game for DCS. Whatever works best for you.

One thing is after a couple of years I found the throttle slider was getting some jitter,   after opening it up and clearing some dust out I noticed the bundle of wires had started rubbing against the slider and the insulation was getting damaged. taping them up back out of the way fixed this.

Control manager is pretty powerful, there is a nice little script around to smooth out any jitter in your throttle if this is causing a problem in AAR for example. Or conteracting the engine torque.

[xvii-Dietrich]

I use CH products a lot.

 

I have the Fighterstick (not Flightstick), Pro Throttle, Throttle Quadrant and Pro Pedals and use various combinations of them, depending on what I am flying. Mostly I use all the CH gear for serious flying in X-Plane or DCS, in order to get more switches for all the systems, but then I switch back to a Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS-X if playing RoF or BoX. The exception is the Ju 52, for which I use the 6 levers on the CH throttle quadrant... just perfect for Höhengas and Throttle, with some switches for coolers - mostly for fun, rather than necessity. I only use the CH-products' controllers as plug-and-play. I've never used the calibration setup or anything like that. The Fighterstick has some extremely-useful trim-wheels - possibly the best feature of the lot. All of them (well, not the pedals) have LOADS of buttons, which is great. The buttons are easy to touch-recognise, and are reliable. Overall, they are all well made and are sturdy and easy to use.

 

A few minor complaints : The centre detents on all of them are a bit heavy. The pedals are a bit clunky/noisy. The Fighterstick is a little bit uncomfortable (well, compared to the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS-X). I've noticed occasional jitter on the Throttle (I will try out @1./JG26_Ros_Beef's suggestion above!). The Fighterstick and ProThrottle are a bit light, so they can sometimes move about on the desk (under extreme flying conditions!).

[WWChunk]

I started off in 1998 with a gameport CH Combatstick.  Graduated to a Thrustmaster Cougar in 2002, but did not like it much, so I went to a full USB CH HOTAS setup (Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals), and it still works like a charm to this day.  At the beginning of this year, I went to a Virpil Base, with a Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle, in combination with MFG Crosswind pedals.  It's a huge step up IMO, BUT the CH stuff did not break, I just wanted something new.  I believe that there is no better "starter set" of stick/throttle/pedals, than CH gear.  I still use the throttle quadrant in my current setup, because of it's durability and function.  As others have stated, it should be calibrated with the CH Control Manager software, but you don't need to use the control maps within that software to program the buttons for IL-2, or any sim.  They're really, really, really good controllers.  You won't be disappointed.

[WWGriphos]

I have (or have had) the CH pedals, throttle quadrant, Fighterstick Pro and Pro Throttle.   

 

The pedals are bombproof.  I've had them well over a decade.  They have very little noise on them still.  They are clunky, with way too much detent.

 

The Throttle Quadrant is pretty good.  Better than the Saiteks I used to have.  But their pots are noisy and don't give a clean input signal for long.

 

The Fighterstick is old school, with low resolution, and way too big a detent.  I didn't like its ergonomics either.  The VKB Gladiator Pro I have now is vastly superior in every way.

 

I'm least happy with the Pro Throttle.  It's a plastic plate sliding on a plastic plate and I've never been able to get the thing to put out a clean signal without quite a bit of jitter and lag.  It's very particular about which USB port I plug it into, but whichever one I use, it develops lag fairly soon.  It's not very old (maybe three years?).  The little joystick is terrible.  Will not center, with quite a bit of jitter.  

 

If there were a good alternative for a HOTAS throttle, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  

 

CH has always been a solid product, but they have not updated their hardware in forever, and their age is showing.  

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by WWGriphos

[TheSNAFU]

Yep I agree. I have fighterstck, throttle and pedals. Tons of buttons and combinations. The damn things just work. Mine must be close to 10 years old and work fine. They aren't crosswinds or warthog but they're good n way less money. 

 

As for programming and setup info go to CH Hanger or on the net and look for: http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/index.php?/files/file/109-control-manager-dummies-guide/

 

i think you have to register at ch hanger to get the download buts it's well worth it. The tutorial is excellent making set up and programming easy. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by TheSNAFU

[Hoss]

I used CH Fighter Stick, Pro Throttle and Pedals for almost 15 years before I moved over to TMWH......... and I highly recommend using CH Control Manager.............  I never had a problem with it, you need CM Start too............. to switch profiles on the fly. 

 

here is some of my tools I used when I was using CH stuff........

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ot41ea6die5ewnv/Bunch of CH Junk.7z

 

If you get it some of this should come in handy.... some DCS tools too..

 

cheers

 

hoss

[SCG_Schneemann]

I agree with Hoss. I am using a throttle quadrant and pedals through CH manager - gives the throttle quadrant 6 extra buttons. I use Joy2Key now on my MSFF2 as a shift key so can have a huge amount of buttons and sliders. As others have mentioned, the pedals work good, but are a bit noisy. Am thinking of repackaging the guts into something smoother.

[Colonol]

Hey guys thanks for all the replies, it's helped me a lot. My CH hotas just came and wow when people said that pedals were loud they weren't exaggerating. But I do like how everything feels for the most part with the only downside being how light the joystick and throttle are. But that's not much of an issue for me since I have a desk mount. 

 

Currently I'm using CH manager just to calibrate and then setting up all the controls ingame.

 

Other than that I'm just wondering, do you need to keep CH manager open all the time for it to work or will the calibration stick even when I close it?

 

Also to the people who use a ch setup do you guys use any sort of curves or deadzones?

 

Once again thanks for all the responses.

[WWGriphos]

For dead zones, you should move the controls in the setup screen in game and add dead zone until the needle reliably bottoms or tops out. The white needle. The orange needle shows your actual controller position. 

 

As for sensitivity curves, the higher the percentage, the finer your adjustment near center. I’m a fan of flat input curves in most sims, but find my aiming improves considerably in IL2 if I use significant sensitivity. I think I use 50% for yaw, 60% for pitch and 30% for roll. Test for yourself to suit the way you fly and your individual controls. Since the Fighterstick has such a large detent, you may want to start lower on pitch and roll. 

[Sgt_Joch]

it is really a matter of personal taste, I don't use dead zones for the stick, but use a slight curve so the fighterstick is less sensitive around the center.

 

I use dead zones at the top and bottom of the throttle to make sure I get the full range from 0-100%.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Sgt_Joch

[Colonol]

1 hour ago, Sgt_Joch said:

 

I use dead zones at the top and bottom of the throttle to make sure I get the full range from 0-100%

Just making sure,  you're talking about in CH control manager right?

 

 

[WWChunk]

I think he's probably talking about in game settings.  Also, you do NOT need to leave the CH Control Manager software open.  After you calibrate the controller's, you can close it, and go about your day. ?

[Sgt_Joch]

1 hour ago, Colonol said:

Just making sure,  you're talking about in CH control manager right?

 

 

 

no, I was talking about the in game settings.

 

In CH manager, I just calibrate and then do the rest of the tweaking in game. Even if the throttle is properly calibrated, once inside the game, you may notice the throttle does not reach the full range 0-100%, you can use dead zones to fix that.

[Colonol]

Just now, Sgt_Joch said:

 

no, I was talking about the in game settings.

 

In CH manager, I just calibrate and then do the rest of the tweaking in game. Even if the throttle is properly calibrated, once inside the game, you may notice the throttle does not reach the full range 0-100%, you can use dead zones to fix that.

 Yeah I had heard about that while researching about the CH hotas. Somebody used the same solution just that they did it CH manager. That's why I was asking.

[SharpeXB]

On 6/14/2018 at 12:20 PM, Sgt_Joch said:

 

In CH manager, I just calibrate and then do the rest of the tweaking in game. Even if the throttle is properly calibrated, once inside the game, you may notice the throttle does not reach the full range 0-100%, you can use dead zones to fix that.

I have been able to get 100% of the motion with my CH throttle in game. Maybe try calibrating it again. Sometimes it took me a few tries.  

[LukeFF]

On 6/14/2018 at 10:20 AM, Sgt_Joch said:

In CH manager, I just calibrate and then do the rest of the tweaking in game. Even if the throttle is properly calibrated, once inside the game, you may notice the throttle does not reach the full range 0-100%, you can use dead zones to fix that.

 

You have to stop the throttle just short of its physical travel limits (when calibrating) in order to see its full range of motion.

Edited June 25, 2018 by LukeFF

[Soarfeat]

Yep agree with LukeFF on calibrating throttle. When it ask to move throttle to full forward position and back position, just stop short of that full point and click to save this point and this will take care of the full travel deficiency referred to in sim. This is actually how it is recommended to calibrate. If any of the CH devices develop some jittering it is most likely from  loose pot connectors and you can easily tighten them by squeezing the clips a little tighter with some hog nose pliers or what I did is just put a small bead of solder on them to hold them tight.

 

[Sgt_Joch]

yes, I am aware of the issue that you have to stop before the full range when calibrating the Throttle with CH manager. However, I find I still need to put a dead zone in the Key mapping to reach 100% travel. Works perfectly in game though.

[aviviljoen]

I've been using CH joysticks since 1994, and couldn't be happier. Upgraded to the Fighterstick, Pro-pedals and throttle about ten years ago, and all are good as new. CHManager also easy to use once you get the hang of it. Highly recommended.

[Blasterlasvideo]

UPDATE!

 

I just spoke to CH tech support and they warned me that CH Manager DOES NOT work correctly with Windows 10 and gave me explicit instructions on how to effectively remove it from my system. They said that even if you dont actively use it, when your CH USB products are booted up it runs automatically in the background and can create issues.

 

I removed it and used Windows spartan calibrating gameport calibration program which did the job .

 

If you chose to continue using the Control Manager, it is at you own risk, according to CH support.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Blasterlasvideo

[TheSNAFU]

I have all ch controls using ch manager on win 10 with zero issues as far as I can tell.
 

What specifically does ch say are the issues? 

[Sokol1]

From DCS forum:

 

Quote

 

I contacted CH Products yesterday about a Windows 10 update for the Control Manager software.

Here is their reply:

"Hi,

No, we do not have any plans of releasing a patch for this legacy program. Please note the Control Manager is an optional program we offer, and it is not needed in order to use our products.

this legacy program is not required to calibrate. We recommend calibrating within the Game Controller menu built into your Windows operating system. You can find this by searching your Windows Settings for “USB” and clicking Set up USB Game Controllers."
 

 

 

You just need plug CH stick, throttle, pedal in a USB port for windows install with HID drivers.

 

As alternative for keymaper software  - if this really matter,  can try with Joystick Gremlin+vJoy.

 

BTW - DView provide better calibration that obsolete (Win95 legacy) Windows Games Controllers (joy.cpl).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Ut4R1O-Sw

 

Why? 

Allow do calibration manually and so set custom values, as in the video above.

Set deadzones

Set saturation

 

DXTweak is another option, with similar functions, plus curves (attention to 32 and 64 bits version).

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Sokol1

[TheSNAFU]

Optional legacy program

not needed to use our products? Really... 

Thats pitiful coming from a long time producer of programmable controllers lol. 

they also say: The Control Manager software allows a user to program their CH products.

 

Well in my case I’ve had no problems using control manager to set up my controllers the way I want them so I still am not clear about what doesn’t work in win 10. 

Edited February 23, 2020 by TheSNAFU

[WWFawlty]

I've had no problem with win 10 and CH control manager FS/PT/TQ/PP. I did get rid of MS store which I hear did cause a conflict. 

[WWChunk]

Yep, Fawlty nailed it, there was an issue with the MS store that would conflict with getting maps to download to the hardware.  You can either junk the store altogether, or when you have issues with the control manager not working, you can type store in the windows search bar, close it, and voila, control manager will work.  I run a script on the throttle quad that eliminated the jitters I had on the all lever axes, so control manager is a must for me.

[cardboard_killer]

I have no idea if this works, but . . .

 

 

[WWFawlty]

This is the process for disabling MS store for win10 Home

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/disabling-microsoft-store-in-windows-10-home/cc839241-bd98-4476-98db-d86f0be9dd2b?auth=1

[robbiec]

Ch manager working here on Win 10 1909, I'll give it a go on Win 10 20H1 next week and report back. Like others, I've had my set of Fighter stick, Pro Throttle and Pedals for over 10 years. They are industrial grade and basically bomb proof. 

They prefer USB 2.0, I have a custom power plan that disables USB port power saving. Ch Hangar and support downsizing is probably due to Bob Church retiring or at the very least taking a step back. He was the developer behind Ch Manager and it is a credit to him that it still works. Ch products probably can't find a replacement, or perhaps won't pay the necessary salary required for someone's talent and skills to match that of Bob, so won't support it. 

 

I wonder what sort of Hotas system he would come up with in 2020 and what sort of management system alongside it?