Stalingrad map

[andyw248]

Besides the gtaphic quality of the city of Stalingrad - which disappointed me, too, at least a bit - is it me or I find it way too small?

Maybe I expected it huge, not like CoD's london but still a large, large city.

 

There is a good thread in the Historic Data section at: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1638-any-good-areal-image-stalingrad-wwii/. The aerial images there show that Stalingrad ad the time was a lengthy but narrow urban area along the Volga. I think the representation in BoS is pretty close regarding the extension, and a slight simplification regarding the buildings.

[J4SCrisZeri]

I don't understand this problem some people seem to have with snowy map. It's just winter, all the same stuff that is there in the summer, but covered in snow...

I don't know. I probably can't explain it well, but I find it flat and poor. Even a toy-game like Wings of Prey looks more interesting whan it comes to look down. Even in snow scenarios.

I dunno, I feel like something lacks, and I still strongly stay hopeful about the 38% development thing...

 

 

[Finkeren]

I don't know. I probably can't explain it well, but I find it flat and poor. Even a toy-game like Wings of Prey looks more interesting whan it comes to look down. Even in snow scenarios.

I dunno, I feel like something lacks, and I still strongly stay hopeful about the 38% development thing...

 

Have you ever flown above a completely snow covered landscape, I'm talking feet deep snow?

 

I have, and I tell you, it is almost completely featureless, especially if it's relatively flat like the floodplain around Stalingrad. The only things clearly visible would be settlements, cleared roads, trees and forrests.

 

To be fair though: when Operation Uranus launched (which marks the start of the BoS campaign) the snow had just started falling and propably didn't cover everything yet. Also, while the winter 42/43 was rather cold in that area, temperatures most likely didn't reach the often-quoted -30 degrees, it simply doesn't get that cold in the area, and Stalingrad might even have experienced occational daytime thaw in November and early December.

[J4SCrisZeri]

no sir, never flown with those weather situation. I have no doubt it must be all white, actually what I dislike is not THE SIM realism, it is the real natural aspect of a snowy lanscape that really I dislike. I guess I will just have to deal with it.

And stay confident in some new content by the team or the modders, i.e. spring/summer scenarios and textures.

[Finkeren]

Yeah there's not much that can be done about it. Russian winter is what it is. What I'd like to see at some point are maps that portray the rasputitsa seasons of spring thaw and autumn rains with all the problems that creates for unpaved airfields.

[Georgio]

I always thought the 1942 winter was supposed to be one of the coldest with German soldiers especially freezing to death in the harsh conditions?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Russians liked to pose the frozen Germans like garden ornaments.

Personally I don't mind the snow as long was we enventually get a 'prequel' to the Autumn.

 

Have you ever flown above a completely snow covered landscape, I'm talking feet deep snow?

I have, and I tell you, it is almost completely featureless, especially if it's relatively flat like the floodplain around Stalingrad. The only things clearly visible would be settlements, cleared roads, trees and forrests.

To be fair though: when Operation Uranus launched (which marks the start of the BoS campaign) the snow had just started falling and propably didn't cover everything yet. Also, while the winter 42/43 was rather cold in that area, temperatures most likely didn't reach the often-quoted -30 degrees, it simply doesn't get that cold in the area, and Stalingrad might even have experienced occational daytime thaw in November and early December.

[ParaB]

I don't know. I probably can't explain it well, but I find it flat and poor. Even a toy-game like Wings of Prey looks more interesting whan it comes to look down.

I have to say I do like the terrain textures of WoP a lot. They look IMO absolute stunning.

 

But then the WoP Stalingrad map is absolutely tiny. IIRC the size is ~ 35x35km. In contrast the BoS map has a size of 360x230 km.

 

So far I like the BoS map. I'd like to see some more details and some more colours for the Stalingrad buildings, but all in all it does a good job of portraying the Stalingrad region.

[J4SCrisZeri]

I have to say I do like the terrain textures of WoP a lot. They look IMO absolute stunning.

 

Agree, given certain altitudes and situations, they still are stunning. That game has a unique atmosphere and lighting too. The overall result is impressive.

The rest tend to look/feel like some console game in my opinion.

[Veteran66]

the BoS Stalingrad Map is a late Battle map it start at 19.11.1942 "Operation Uranus" so it was snowy.

 

Yes it is bad to have no green and autumn Map, for the german Luftwaffe was the time from sommer to end december the most fighting time.

[Freycinet]

Please stop comparing with the map in Wings of Prey. You might as well compare with the maps in Call of Duty or Crysis. They are TINY compared to a flight sim map. Apples and oranges.

 

Stalingrad was bombed and burnt down in the autumn. The wooden suburbs disappeared from the face of the Earth, what didn't succumb to the flames was scrounged as firewood by the few survivors that remained in Stalingrad. Every remnant disappeared from sight after the first snow. What we see in the sim are the ruins of the built-up city centre.

 

The only difference I notice between the sim and reality, when it comes to the disappearance of the wooden suburbs, is that in reality the wooden houses had a stone fireplace and chimney. After the destruction and fires only those chimneys stood upright, alone in the landscape. I'll see if I can find a photo of that...

[ParaB]

Something like that, Frey?

 

Stalingrad, December '42

 

http://abload.de/img/stalingrad1242qgsyy.jpg

[J4SCrisZeri]

by the way, am I going nuts, or did I see the Pavlov House in the center of Stalingrad? It is the only isolated, tall building I have noticed

Since it has been a primary strategical objective and it is still considered a symbol of the battle, I thought it may have been placed in the sim with particuler attention to detail

 

Anybody noticed anything about that?

[Freycinet]

Something like that, Frey?[/url]

Exactly, well done!

[Finkeren]

I always thought the 1942 winter was supposed to be one of the coldest with German soldiers especially freezing to death in the harsh conditions?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Russians liked to pose the frozen Germans like garden ornaments.

It was a quite cold winter, and temperatures did in fact become deadly, but the idea that temperatures regularly fell below -30 centigrade cannot be true. The all time record low temperature in the city is -32 degrees, so to imagine that -30 was normal in the winter of 42/43 seems something of a stretch.

[Georgio]

That is spooky, reminds me of the stark branchless trees from WW1.

 

Something like that, Frey?

 

Stalingrad, December '42

 

http://abload.de/img/stalingrad1242qgsyy.jpg

I always thought Pavlov's house was close to the river as they had no choice but to fight with their backs to the water.

 

by the way, am I going nuts, or did I see the Pavlov House in the center of Stalingrad? It is the only isolated, tall building I have noticed

Since it has been a primary strategical objective and it is still considered a symbol of the battle, I thought it may have been placed in the sim with particuler attention to detail

 

Anybody noticed anything about that?

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

actually what I dislike is not THE SIM realism, it is the real natural aspect of a snowy lanscape that really I dislike.

 

That's fair enough, and I can see your point. Having spent my army days in Finnmark (look it up), I can certainly see your point. It is cold, white and feature-less, even from the ground. It is also a place I'd really, really try to avoid hitting the silk over. The trip down could easily give you frostbite, and surviving the next 24 hours won't be easy, let alone pleasant. The map looks quite the part from my experience with flying over such landscapes.

[Jaws2002]

by the way, am I going nuts, or did I see the Pavlov House in the center of Stalingrad? It is the only isolated, tall building I have noticed

Since it has been a primary strategical objective and it is still considered a symbol of the battle, I thought it may have been placed in the sim with particuler attention to detail

 

Anybody noticed anything about that?

 

Here's where you'll find Pavlov's house:

 

image hosting 10mb limit

 

The single tall building further south west is the grain elevator:

 

capture screen

[Picchio]

I've got to thank Red Orchestra for teaching me about some of these places!

[Jaws2002]

I've got to thank Red Orchestra for teaching me about some of these places!

 

Oh man how many Germans I mowed down with the Dp28 from the top of that grain elevator, and how many Russians I mowed down, with MG34, from one of the buildings across the square from Pavlov's House.

 

 

Good times.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Jaws2002

[J4SCrisZeri]

Jaws, thank you!

[71st_AH_Hooves]

OK so, since no one took on my challenge to fly across the map and see how long it took,   I did it and..........  well its hard to say.  As I ran out of gas, but im a little confused by the track recorder.  When I played it back it said it took  00:00:17.  I'm not sure if that's 17 minutes or just a bug, I wasn't really paying attention as I just set it to auto and then did some homework.  Im fairly sure it was more like 45 mins.  Ill have to re examine that later. 

 

The good news I'm here to tell you is that (at least for now) the map edge "turn around thingy bopper" is not there.  I flew straight off the western edge into what was obviously un populated white-ness and it kept flying for a good 3 minutes (at 16x speed).  So Im 99% sure its not in place. 

 

I really love the map so far but am experiencing the same bugs that others already reported in the bug thread.  The disappearing, reappearing smoke.  The edge of the plane outlined in white against the smoke.  And just general longing for longer smoke view distance. 

 

I was a little confused when I headed out East though.  I seemed to by flying over airfields and towns but none of them were marked on the map.  I even landed (well crashed) at one of them and it wasn't labeled. 

 

I will be sure to disable fuel limits on my next test. 

 

Good work 1CGS, cant wait for MP.  That's what all my friends are waiting for as well! 

 

 

 

      Hooves

I don't know. I probably can't explain it well, but I find it flat and poor. Even a toy-game like Wings of Prey looks more interesting whan it comes to look down. Even in snow scenarios.

I dunno, I feel like something lacks, and I still strongly stay hopeful about the 38% development thing...

 

 

I will say that that game engine Graphics wise comes closest to the real looking ground than I have ever seen in any game.  Too bad they chose to come up short in so many other Critical areas. 

Edited January 24, 2014 by SYN_Hooves

[AcesHigh]

Weighing in to say I'm a little disappointed/concerned at this point with how the map looks.   Everything is coming along great and my expectations are grounded, but all the black and white is really boring to look at.   In the screen above from WOP those breaks in the snow with the bare fields/grass are sorely needed to break up the white in this game.   I have confidence by the time of release it will look better but just weighing in on the subject topic at this point.  Certainly a great starting point but I sure hope much more is planned to make it interesting.

[Emgy]

The Bos map is from the deep winter with heavy snowfall, there are no bare fields or mud tracks when the land is covered by thick snow.

 

 

 

But I agree that for the sake of variety, a variant of the current map in autumn or summer colours, would be very welcome for multiplayer and community scenario makers. (I suspect it needs a lot more work than just adding textures, though.)

 

Btw Scriszeri, Volgograd is flat riverland, not the Italian alps, of course it looks flat and boring to you ;-) I live near lots of snow and the Bos map looks right and realistic to me.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Well what we are missing is the ground action of course, especially around the villages and towns.Once there are trucks and tanks moving around I'm sure it will look better.

[JG4_Sputnik]

Actually how about the "Balkas" these natural trenches surrounding the city? I feel that they dont look as deep and steep as in real life.

 

 

People and soldiers hid themselves in the Balkas and even built new homes for the war. I wonder if it would be possible to make them look a little mor deep without changing the mesh altitude density (which now is 4m if I recall it correctly).

[Rama]

.../... the mesh altitude density (which now is 4m if I recall it correctly).

wrong

[JG4_Sputnik]

Thanks for clearifying that... maybe you can tell us the correct figure?

Edited January 25, 2014 by JG4_Sputnik

[Rama]

I could... but normally It's up to the dev to decide what information they want ot give and when to give it, not to me.

Only thing I can tell you is that the height map resolution is double of RoF height map resolution.

[J4SCrisZeri]

But I agree that for the sake of variety, a variant of the current map in autumn or summer colours, would be very welcome for multiplayer and community scenario makers. (I suspect it needs a lot more work than just adding textures, though.)

 

Btw Scriszeri, Volgograd is flat riverland, not the Italian alps, of course it looks flat and boring to you ;-) I live near lots of snow and the Bos map looks right and realistic to me.

 

 

we've made my point clear at last: Im not discussing BOS' realism: Im sure it recreates a very realistic snowy land. My personal problem is that I hate flying over desolated snowy lands, but as I said, its just my personal problem and I'll deal with it until something new pops up.

Edited January 25, 2014 by J4Scriszeri