Yaw/Roll Rudder Authority

[BlackBadger]

Hi All, 

 

I keep revisiting this game every few months to see how it's developing and I'm pleasantly surprised by a lot of things. Many of the issues brought up back in 2015 have been rectified and I can see the game going ahead in a good direction. 

 

Having said that, one thing I still find quite annoying is what I can only describe as a very weak rudder authority on most planes with an unnatural tendency to roll. Is this still on a list of issues being worked on or is it just accepted as correct now?

 

otherwise, keep up the good work!

[RedKestrel]

I remember hearing they did quite a bit of work on the rudder modeling not too long ago. I didn't play the game before that stuff got done so I don't know what the difference is.

That being said, with the planes I've been flying I find the rudder to be pretty touchy (might just be the planes I'm flying - I-16 and MiG-3. And while extreme rudder inputs will induce a bit of roll it doesn't seem to be that much to me. Less than in Il-2 1946 where I found you could completely compensate for a lost aileron with a heavy rudder foot lol.

I'm not a real pilot, I've done some ground school and that's it, so I really can't say if its realistic or not. I do remember my instructor mentioning a friend of his that had lost aileron control and made it back to the airstrip using the rudder to induce roll, so obviously some rudder-induced roll is realistic. The question is how much?

[Herne]

Remember that the dev team include real world pilots. They put a lot of effort into making the performance of these birds fit the air frames as best they can. 

It was VR that really pulled me into IL2. It's the (in my opinion) excellent feeling of flight that keeps me here.

[BlackBadger]

Just now, =FEW=Herne said:

Remember that the dev team include real world pilots. They put a lot of effort into making the performance of these birds fit the air frames as best they can. 

It was VR that really pulled me into IL2. It's the (in my opinion) excellent feeling of flight that keeps me here.

 

No doubt. Nobody wants this game to succeed more then the devs and they put a lot of effort into it.

 

Having said that, I also remember how many issues were defended (ranging from FM to gameplay) before and ended up being looked and changed for the better. Hence me raising the question. Is this the current accepted state or is this something that' in the pipeline to be changed/looked at?

[Herne]

5 minutes ago, hnbdgr said:

 

No doubt. Nobody wants this game to succeed more then the devs and they put a lot of effort into it.

 

Having said that, I also remember how many issues were defended (ranging from FM to gameplay) before and ended up being looked and changed for the better. Hence me raising the question. Is this the current accepted state or is this something that' in the pipeline to be changed/looked at?

 

might help if you were more specific with what does not seem right to you ? 

Secondary effect of yaw is roll. just look at the performance of a two channel radio control AC that uses elevators and rudder only.

 

Edit: due to my ongoing stupidity, I have tendency to try and follow 109 /190's in a steep dive, tending to lose my yaks control surfaces. If I lose ailerons only I can make it home, but I am in no shape to continue a dogfight in this condition and expect a positive outcome.

Edited May 31, 2018 by =FEW=Herne

[BlackBadger]

Yes the roll one can overcome just about....

 

Personally I find the degree of deflection one can achieve a bit insufficient. Rudder feels like it's only ~66% as effective as it could be. See examples of crosswind landings that I wasn't able to replicate. I can test tonight again, but it doesn't feel like I have anything approaching this amount of deflection.  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by hnbdgr

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I had both the ailerons shot off my spit yesterday and I was just aboutu able to head back to my lines but I defo did not have enough control for a landing so I had to bail.

[unreasonable]

I am not sure that comparing any of our planes to a Piper Club is going to be very helpful, the design requirements being so different.  Better to find some contemporary test results and see if you can or cannot replicate them in game. 

[Herne]

well the side slip does require opposite aileron and rudder, and I use it in game to dump excess height effectively.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

One thing to consider is that most planes represented in BoX have rudders with less surface area than modern planes, with engines way more powerful. I've never flown such types of planes but it seems logical to me that rudder feels weak in term of effectiveness.

 

 

[Herne]

Just now, F/JG300_Gruber said:

One thing to consider is that most planes represented in BoX have rudders with less surface area than modern planes, with engines way more powerful. I've never flown such types of planes but it seems logical to me that rudder feels weak in term of effectiveness.

 

 

 

And at high speed you would expect a lot of resistance to any control input. Especially so on the rudder with the big old tail fin being asked to yaw into 600 kmh winds.

[purK]

I agree that rudder effectiveness feels a bit underwhelming. Back when they tuned all of the flight models with the intention of minimizing rudder-roll, reduced rudder effectiveness turned out to be an unfortunate side effect.

[69th_chuter]

The amount of roll induced by yaw is largely related to wing dihedral (though not exclusively).  The less effective dihedral the less yaw induced roll. 

 

The first nine B-25s had a constant three degree dihedral wing which gave the aircraft relatively normal flight characteristics and all subsequent production B-25s had the dihedral nullified (zero degrees) at the outboard side of the nacelles which allowed for nearly rudder only heading corrections during bombing approach.