High Altitude formations and MP

[TheWarsimmer]

Do we have any information on this yet? Will servers be able to put formations of high alt AI bombers (B25) together and map them on a course for intercept/escort? It will really let planes like the 51d and 262 shine and add a new component to mp and campaign. 

[Gambit21]

What are you asking exactly?

It’s already possible to place formations of bombers.

[Willy__]

16 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

What are you asking exactly?

It’s already possible to place formations of bombers.

 

I think the op meant of the mp side of things.... as of right now I dont know any server that has some big formation of AI bombers, mostly because of performance issues, and I dont think that will change with BoBP....

Edited May 30, 2018 by Willy__

[RedKestrel]

25 minutes ago, baylor703 said:

Do we have any information on this yet? Will servers be able to put formations of high alt AI bombers (B25) together and map them on a course for intercept/escort? It will really let planes like the 51d and 262 shine and add a new component to mp and campaign. 

 

6 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

What are you asking exactly?

It’s already possible to place formations of bombers.

As Gambit21 said, already possible. The career mode has a lot of bomber intercepts.

And there's no reason a mission designer couldn't put them up high either.

HOWEVER there probably isn't a way to create massive formations of strategic bombers as there was in reality. Engine limitations are a b****

[Gambit21]

Ah...yeah BoBP won't change any limitations on that end of things I don't think.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

As of the current game engine, big formations of even simple bombers create a lot of lag/stutter....for everyone that does not have a monster rig!

 

I hate to say it but I think this sim came into the market at an unfortunate time! If it came a couple of years later it may be able to adapt better for the future! As good as it is I think the tech will be clearly more advanced in a couple of years and we will need a port.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

41 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

As of the current game engine, big formations of even simple bombers create a lot of lag/stutter....for everyone that does not have a monster rig!

 

I hate to say it but I think this sim came into the market at an unfortunate time! If it came a couple of years later it may be able to adapt better for the future! As good as it is I think the tech will be clearly more advanced in a couple of years and we will need a port. 

There are two distinct issues here. In SP, sizeable bomber formations are already possible, as shown by many missions. A modest gaming computer should not have trouble with these. MP is another story; the server is unable to handle sufficient numbers of objects without hitting performance limitations. 

 

The timing has little to do with this. A CPU from seven years ago will run the game much like a modern CPU. Unless something truly unexpected happens, no hardware in the next two years will substantially change the way the game runs (save for graphics). 

 

Most of the problems in MP can be attributed to the code itself. Although nothing has been announced, it's not impossible that it will be improved eventually.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

2 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

There are two distinct issues here. In SP, sizeable bomber formations are already possible, as shown by many missions. A modest gaming computer should not have trouble with these. MP is another story; the server is unable to handle sufficient numbers of objects without hitting performance limitations. 

 

The timing has little to do with this. A CPU from seven years ago will run the game much like a modern CPU. Unless something truly unexpected happens, no hardware in the next two years will substantially change the way the game runs (save for graphics). 

 

Most of the problems in MP can be attributed to the code itself. Although nothing has been announced, it's not impossible that it will be improved eventually.

 

As much as I love and respect this sim. I think that It will not live up to modern Sim/Games (that is what this is). The engine is too old! 

 

But saying the above how can you make progress in our area of interest?

 

The Devs are doing what they can but the way I see it is that they came into it too early because the tech at that time was MEH! 

 

 

Sadly what happens is a shiff tin tech and this team came in just before and has had to bank on it!

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

What is it about the objects which cause the issues in MP?

 

Could the objects be "simplified" in any way?

[-SF-Disarray]

As I understand the issue it is the AI. The code used for AI puts a large strain on the engine. The more AI that is put on a map the the less stable  things become.

[TheWarsimmer]

I was talking MP- see the title of the thread. I think to get the full use of the P51d and 262 and other craft that are designed to be high alt, you have to find a way to get the air combat up there. MP combat is low because that's where the objectives are. High alt bombers would fix this and introduce a new dynamic. Also, I wasn't aware there were servers with bomber formations to intercept, Gambit. I usually only do cocunut or wol.

 

Why could the devs not simplify the flight model for the b25 formations as some have suggested, as they will be AI piloted? I've played sims from 10 years ago with multiple formations that fifteen year old machines could handle. Obviously, the FM was considerably simplified over what we are running today, but there is no reason it couldn't be toned down for these specific purposes and have twenty plane or more formations.

7 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

The timing has little to do with this. A CPU from seven years ago will run the game much like a modern CPU. Unless something truly unexpected happens, no hardware in the next two years will substantially change the way the game runs (save for graphics). 

 

 

 I am aware of the engine being old and, thus, having a lot of limitations. But I didn't know about this aspect of it. That's a shame. Perhaps the simple FM idea for bomber formations would fix it?

Edited May 30, 2018 by baylor703

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

If AI is the issue...

 

I wonder if 30 bombers with simplified flight physics would be significantly more load than the 3 airfields and 6 targets on each side, each with 3 AA, and columns of trucks and tanks like we have now in MP.

 

Is there any reason we can't have a map with ONE target that the bombers are headed for at high altitude, with multiple positions for air starts (over the friendly territory) for the escorts (so they can join relatively close to the bombers already in flight), and one or two airfields for the defenders; with maybe an airstart available somewhere else?

[CountZero]

9 hours ago, baylor703 said:

Do we have any information on this yet? Will servers be able to put formations of high alt AI bombers (B25) together and map them on a course for intercept/escort? It will really let planes like the 51d and 262 shine and add a new component to mp and campaign. 

 

Servers could do that, they can even make one of the objective to be shoot down certen number of bombers, so fighters need to go for them or need to defend them, it will probably happend, but dont expect big numbers of bombers as they waist so mutch game resorces on unneccesary stuff so in SP you can have some medium numbers but in MP where you have to use resorces of your PC on other human players and aditionaly on heavy demanding AI youll end up with small number of slots open for server if AI bombers are used in some noemal numbers so you get a fealing of escorting something. 

 

You could have coop missions where you only have bombers escort and attackers, thats more to be happening with some bigger number as mision is not then ocupied with other stuff you need on tipical DF server.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

20 hours ago, baylor703 said:

 I am aware of the engine being old and, thus, having a lot of limitations. But I didn't know about this aspect of it. That's a shame. Perhaps the simple FM idea for bomber formations would fix it?

 

19 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

I wonder if 30 bombers with simplified flight physics would be significantly more load than the 3 airfields and 6 targets on each side, each with 3 AA, and columns of trucks and tanks like we have now in MP.

 

The server limitations are deeper than that; even without AI aircraft, one can encounter problems by adding too many objects. While a few tweaks would help sometimes, only a time-consuming rework of the code could truly change the types of missions that are viable in MP. 

[KoN_]

On 5/30/2018 at 2:09 AM, Willy__ said:

 

I think the op meant of the mp side of things.... as of right now I dont know any server that has some big formation of AI bombers, mostly because of performance issues, and I dont think that will change with BoBP....

Yes its a shame that multiplayer has gone down this road . The game just can't handle it . I don't think we will see il-46 campaigns again here any how . Dam same .