Stuttering/Double Images when rolling or moving head?

[[Pb]Shakalakah]

Hello,

 

I've tried numerous suggestions from this forum, yet I'm still having a problem achieving an ideal VR experience. To elaborate on my issue; other planes, the edges of the cockpits, trees... all develop some sort of ghosted image right behind/next to it. Makes identifying friend or foe that much harder since I'm seeing double.

 

Its only extremely noticeable when I'm rolling my aircraft, or if I start moving my head around (so basically all the time). I'm otherwise able to hold 45+ frames consistently, even whilst the problem occurs. (I've tested this by watching my frame rate than rolling my aircraft, frames don't decrease but the ghosting still occurs.) Been only playing Multiplayer lately so I'll have to do a test in regards to campaign mode.

 

I've been playing VR for two years, I understand how focusing is different, it's not that. It's definitely happening inside the headset/game and not just my brain. I have no issues using the gun sight (until of course i have to roll or adjust my head postion). I'm hoping there's something I've overlooked with my settings.

 

Here are my PC specs:

ASUS ROG Maximus X Code

Intel i7 8700k

EVGA GE FORCE GTX 1080ti (Driver version 397.64, most recent)

16GB DDR4

Rift CV1

 

I'm only using 1 Oculus sensor, with my touch controllers in close proximity. I have to do more testing with having a second sensor up, but I've seen this before with my 3 sensor set up as well. 

 

I have IL-2 loaded onto a 1 TB SSD that I have all/most of my games on, it's almost full, but I wouldn't suspect that to be the issue...? I used to use the Oculus tray tool with a profile for turning off ASW and adjusting the pixel density (nothing over 1.5). Even when I would set P.D. at 1 I would still have this issue.

 

I've since reverted to turning off ASW in Steam VR (Left CTRL + NUMpad 1) and adjusting the P.D. in there, trying to in theory limit the load on my cpu. 

 

My graphics settings:

Ultra

Screen Res: 1024x768 (when in vr)

UI scale: 100%

Shadows Quality: Off

Mirrors: Complex

Distant Landscape Detail: Normal

Horizon Draw distance: 130 km

Landscape filter: Off

Grass Quality: Normal

Clouds Quality: High

Dynamic Resolution Factor: Full

Anti aliasing: 4

Gamma Correction: .9

SSAO: On

HDR: Off

Sharpen: On

Use 4k textures: On

 

I've done tests at lowest graphic settings while still being able to recreate the problem. I've since turned things back up since I at least want to play in a rich environment. 

 

I have more testing of my own I'm going to eventually do, but I'd love to hear if anyone else is experience something like this and was able to find a fix.

Thanks

 

 

 

[dburne]

You certainly should not be having issues like described with your setup.

 

Some things I would try if you have not already:

 

Re-do sensor setup in Oculus software. I would go ahead and set two sensors up whilst doing this. Mine are both on my desk facing me - one on each end.

Re-do the IPD adjustment in Oculus software, insuring it is adjusted for best image clarity. 

Use DDU ( Display Driver Uninstaller) in safe mode to completely remove the current Nvidia drivers.

Do a clean install of the latest Nvidia drivers - installing only the driver itself and PhysX. None of that other stuff, especially not GeForce Experience.

After the clean install of drivers, go in Nvidia Control Panel and set profile for IL-2 for power management to "prefer maximum performance". Leave all other settings at default.

Make sure the Game Bar is disabled in Windows 10.

 

In game:

I would turn off SSAO.

I would turn off 4k textures.

Set Mirrors off, or a step down from Complex.

Landscape Filter On.

 

Best of luck, hope something helps get a better experience.

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by dburne

[Wolf8312]

9 hours ago, dburne said:

You certainly should not be having issues like described with your setup.

 

Some things I would try if you have not already:

 

Re-do sensor setup in Oculus software. I would go ahead and set two sensors up whilst doing this. Mine are both on my desk facing me - one on each end.

Re-do the IPD adjustment in Oculus software, insuring it is adjusted for best image clarity. 

Use DDU ( Display Driver Uninstaller) in safe mode to completely remove the current Nvidia drivers.

Do a clean install of the latest Nvidia drivers - installing only the driver itself and PhysX. None of that other stuff, especially not GeForce Experience.

After the clean install of drivers, go in Nvidia Control Panel and set profile for IL-2 for power management to "prefer maximum performance". Leave all other settings at default.

Make sure the Game Bar is disabled in Windows 10.

 

In game:

I would turn off SSAO.

I would turn off 4k textures.

Set Mirrors off, or a step down from Complex.

Landscape Filter On.

 

Best of luck, hope something helps get a better experience.

 

 

Turn off 4k helps? I thought everyone was saying that is supposed to improve performance? Might try myself!

 

These things are hard to gauge to be honest as everyone has different standards (with some peoples being too high!) some just cannot tolerate reprojection/flying under 90fps, and seem to notice it more. Moving ones head when rolling durring reprojection is likely to create the ghosting effect, though I cant say I notice it on BOS, it was more noticiable with the other sim for me (ie placing ones head to the side and watching the world go past).

 

I think OP one is likely to experience a bit of ghosting if dropping to 45fps. When that happens performance will not be perfectly smooth, though I have to say I dont notice any ghosting lately (even the planes dont seem to ghost though I'm sure they might in massive battles) and most of the time I hit 90.

 

That said rememeber that nobody, with any computer is able to play this game with perfect performance and in that sense we are all under minimum requirements as nobody can reach a constant 90. Sure you're not just expecting too much perhaps? The campaign is demanding, hows your performance on scripted campaign missions? 

 

You might try your luck with disabling C-states and multi core, as well as overclocking your CPU. Honestly though VR is so strange that sometimes it just seems to work better from one day to the next! You might get some software and benchmark your PC, that will tell you everything is working as it should be.

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Why turn off ASW? The prime reason to turn it off was the flashing crosshair issue, which has been fixed by lefuneste's 3dmigoto mod for months now... 

 

You get ghosting because you turned off ASW. You must run at either 90fps or 45fps+asw, or there will be ghosting. 

[dburne]

17 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Why turn off ASW? The prime reason to turn it off was the flashing crosshair issue, which has been fixed by lefuneste's 3dmigoto mod for months now... 

 

You get ghosting because you turned off ASW. You must run at either 90fps or 45fps+asw, or there will be ghosting. 

 

Actually it is not uncommon to get more ghosting with ASW on, depending on level of performance one gets I suppose.

 

I always fly with ASW off and do not get the ghosting.

 

I do not think this is related to the OP's issue though, his appears to be something more unique and odd.

Edited May 23, 2018 by dburne

[[Pb]Shakalakah]

17 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Why turn off ASW? The prime reason to turn it off was the flashing crosshair issue, which has been fixed by lefuneste's 3dmigoto mod for months now... 

 

You get ghosting because you turned off ASW. You must run at either 90fps or 45fps+asw, or there will be ghosting. 

 

I'm unfamiliar with this mod, I'll look into it. Yes I turned ASW off because of the crosshair issue. Thanks for everyones input. I'm gonna come back to this after more tests.

[chiliwili69]

The effect you described is a micro-stuttering.

At perfect 90 fps it will not appear.

 

With ASW OFF you have micro-stuttering when you are below 90fps (your Rift display runs at 90Hz, so you have dropped or repeated frames, and your eye detect this) and there are "translational" moving objects around you.

 

With ASW ON you either at 45fps or at 90fps (but nothing at between). If you are at 90fps it is the same than being at 90fps with ASW OFF. If you are at 45fps, then the "clever" ASW algorithms have to guess were your moving objects are going to create a fake intermediate image (not truly rendered) to cheat your eye and produce images at 90Hz.

 

I was talking about that here:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/31642-experimentingunderstanding-with-asw-onoff/

 

Since the Lefuneste mod solves the propeller issue there is no reason to not use ASW.

 

But in my case I have still not used that mod (don´t ask me why but I have never used mods), but every body is talking quite well about it.

 

[HunDread]

17 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Why turn off ASW? The prime reason to turn it off was the flashing crosshair issue, which has been fixed by lefuneste's 3dmigoto mod for months now... 

 

You get ghosting because you turned off ASW. You must run at either 90fps or 45fps+asw, or there will be ghosting. 

 

Personally I turn ASW off because it is too overprotective. In scenarios with a few frame drops (for example 87-88 FPS for a second or so) but otherwise constant 90 FPS ASW is likely to kick in. Overall it is much easier to maintain 90 FPS without ASW.

Other than that I always think I would miss the propeller disk in this sim but I never tried without it to be honest.

[dburne]

8 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

The effect you described is a micro-stuttering.

At perfect 90 fps it will not appear.

 

With ASW OFF you have micro-stuttering when you are below 90fps (your Rift display runs at 90Hz, so you have dropped or repeated frames, and your eye detect this) and there are "translational" moving objects around you.

 

With ASW ON you either at 45fps or at 90fps (but nothing at between). If you are at 90fps it is the same than being at 90fps with ASW OFF. If you are at 45fps, then the "clever" ASW algorithms have to guess were your moving objects are going to create a fake intermediate image (not truly rendered) to cheat your eye and produce images at 90Hz.

 

 

 

I myself do not see any perceivable micro stuttering with ASW off until my fps gets much below 45 fps, which it hardly ever does.

When I am taking off or landing usually at 45 fps, to flying around at 60-70-80 fps, I do not perceive any microstutters.

To me it is very smooth. Now that is not to say they are not there, I am sure they are, but not to an extent that it is noticeable to me or hurts the experience. As long as I do not perceive them, they do not bother me.

 

On the other hand, flying with ASW on for me is a no go. I rarely can maintain 90 fps for any length of time, and it is pretty much always on. And I do not like the image I get with it on, particular the ghosting of the planes as they fly around me and past me. And of course the gunsight reticle (I prefer not to use any Mods).  The experience I have with ASW on is no where near the experience I get with it off.

And I have pretty much found that true for me in any flight sim.

 

Obviously everyone's mileage may vary,  I would just encourage folks that have not to try it both ways to find the best experience for themselves with their system and gfx settings.

 

Edit: Going back to the OP issue, I still think something else may be going on there from everything he described. 

Note he has tried it both with ASW and without. With his rig the experience should be significantly better. Heck mine is better and I have no where near his specs.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by dburne

[[Pb]Shakalakah]

13 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

The effect you described is a micro-stuttering.

At perfect 90 fps it will not appear.

 

With ASW OFF you have micro-stuttering when you are below 90fps (your Rift display runs at 90Hz, so you have dropped or repeated frames, and your eye detect this) and there are "translational" moving objects around you.

 

With ASW ON you either at 45fps or at 90fps (but nothing at between). If you are at 90fps it is the same than being at 90fps with ASW OFF. If you are at 45fps, then the "clever" ASW algorithms have to guess were your moving objects are going to create a fake intermediate image (not truly rendered) to cheat your eye and produce images at 90Hz.

 

I was talking about that here:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/31642-experimentingunderstanding-with-asw-onoff/

 

Since the Lefuneste mod solves the propeller issue there is no reason to not use ASW.

 

But in my case I have still not used that mod (don´t ask me why but I have never used mods), but every body is talking quite well about it.

 

 

 

This was absolutely right. I never thought to put ASW back on, as before my system wouldn't have been able to handle it. Since my upgrade I guess I was sold on still keeping ASW off. The gunsight/prop blade jiggle comes back with ASW on, but I'm hoping  Lefuneste's mod will solve that. Still troubleshooting that. 

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by FFS_Shakalakah