Flying into enemy territory is scary...

[seafireliv]

Boo.
Had a mission to take out some Jerry supply trucks. Does anyone find flying into enemy territory foreboding when on Iron Man? I do.  You know you`re ok on the friendly side as long as you have a reasonable height cos if you get shot down you can just bail. But I also like bombing missions with a P40.

 

I chomped on my last bit of rough oat( and whatever else was in it) biscuit and felt its granular bits roughly go down my throat as the last P40 rolled way and I pushed the throttle to take off...  the engine growled into louder life as she pulled herself forward, almost as if annoyed by the heavy baby she had to carry. Better keep my eye on her.

 

Well, I fell behind of the main group after take off, she was heavy and barely got up... How do the AI p40s go so fast when laden with a huge bomb? I`m scared of blowing her engine.

 

Anyway, got some good height, she settled down, eventually crossed just into enemy territory. Tracer flew past my cockpit. Marvellous. Time to drop my bomb and evade, but I don`t want to drop my bomb because I like blowing up things, maybe I can somehow evade I wondered fictionally as I tried a useless evasion still laden with the baby.

 

Part of her wing flew off. She screamed in angry despair - I bailed. Checked the map... The sound of the p40 death scream reached my ears 3 seconds after the flash.

 

...I`m just inside enemy territory, maybe the wind will blow me just to the right side of the border? I could see the friendly side! So I stayed with my chute all the way down, fingers crossed.

 

Captured.

 

Y`know, just to add to salt to the wound they should have a couple of German soldiers standing there watching and laughing at you as you float down as well. Would save me some time!

Edited May 22, 2018 by seafireliv

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

That's the inevitable end of every career flying IL-2's also.

 

But the worst is when your 109 pilot draws a ground attack mission.  One errant bullet is all it takes.  Drop that bomb and GTFO.

Edited May 23, 2018 by hrafnkolbrandr

[RedKestrel]

I had a mission just like that tonight. We were on a convoy attack mission in I-16s and had just crossed into enemy territory when we got bounced by...god, I don't know how many Bf-109F2s. I jettisoned my bombs and scissored with a 109 that got on my tail, put some cannon rounds into his wing and shot him down. But then I was attacked repeatedly by several different 109s...as soon as I was on the tail of one, another would get one me. Eventually they just picked me apart with MG rounds, then one got behind me and slammed me with a cannon round into the engine, wounding me. I managed to get the plane down in a nearby field and ditched.

But I was behind enemy lines...captured. Good luck in the POW camps, Junior Lieutenant Felix Schuhkin!

[dburne]

Been there and done that, I feel your pain!

 

 

[Finkeren]

Iron Man is the feature that completely made the career mode for me. I have yet to survive beyond 50 missions in any career, but I'm enjoying it tremendously.

[Cpt_Cool]

The worst one for me was in my I-16 career convoy attack. After making the attack run we all turn for home except for one squad mate mixing it up with 3 109s. I decide to turn around to help him (mistake). I was cocky and took engine damage. I was running for the front line, trying to dodge a 109 attack that damaged my cockpit. It jammed my compass and i didn't realize it. All it took was confusing one airfield for another (plus the stuck compass heading) to convince me i was on the right path. Engine died, ditched, captured. checked the debriefing map and was horrified to realize i was 100-200m from the front line running roughly parallel for 1.5km before my engine died. That was it for ol' Stanislav.

[Mauf]

I'm staying off Iron Man until AI is fixed to not follow you all the way to homebase to just tear you down in a suicide attack. And maybe, in combination, a fix for the tunnel visioning AI that simply has to go for you even if there's another target just right in front of them. Right now, the AI behaviour seems more like a MP air quake player than a realistic pilot.

 

That all being said, I lost a pilot on a convoy attack mission when a MIG3 nailed a nice deflection shot on my pull up and pilot killed me on first hit. The guy had 17 missions on his tab, really gets you angry. Accepted the loss and started a new one.

 

A nice feature would be if in Iron Man, you could rejoin the timeline (same unit even) to fill the shoes of your replacement and continue on as a new pilot, under the condition that replacements actually arrived at the unit at one point in time.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mauf

[dburne]

26 minutes ago, Mauf said:

I'm staying off Iron Man until AI is fixed to not follow you all the way to homebase to just tear you down in a suicide attack. And maybe, in combination, a fix for the tunnel visioning AI that simply has to go for you even if there's another target just right in front of them. Right now, the AI behaviour seems more like a MP air quake player than a realistic pilot.

 

That all being said, I lost a pilot on a convoy attack mission when a MIG3 nailed a nice deflection shot on my pull up and pilot killed me on first hit. The guy had 17 missions on his tab, really gets you angry. Accepted the loss and started a new one.

 

A nice feature would be if in Iron Man, you could rejoin the timeline (same unit even) to fill the shoes of your replacement and continue on as a new pilot, under the condition that replacements actually arrived at the unit at one point in time.

 

I think the AI has improved somewhat recently in this regard, but agree it still could use some more tweaking.

I have had several sorties where the AI all definitely did not hone in on me alone.

[CrazyDuck]

42 minutes ago, Mauf said:

A nice feature would be if in Iron Man, you could rejoin the timeline (same unit even) to fill the shoes of your replacement and continue on as a new pilot, under the condition that replacements actually arrived at the unit at one point in time.

 

A neat idea! 

[dburne]

2 minutes ago, CrazyDuck said:

 

A neat idea! 

 

Yeah it would be, but also would that also not effectively defeat at least part of the purpose of the Iron Man mode?

You die, career is over.

[Mauf]

25 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Yeah it would be, but also would that also not effectively defeat at least part of the purpose of the Iron Man mode?

You die, career is over.

 

Not technically. Your career is over for the dead pilot. What you normally do? You start a new one. Does that defeat iron man?

What I would like is to have the timeline unlinked from the particular pilot if I so desire.

 

Think of it as: Instead of focussing on the career of a single pilot, you follow the story of a unit. You "return" to the unit as a "fresh rookie" pilot, same as if you would start a new career.

Right now, Iron man is sorta: Either you manage to go through the whole BOM/BOS/BOK timeline in one go, or you have to restart from the beginning. All or nothing. My idea would mean, you still can't revive your pilot if he dies, no matter how stupid the circumstances, but you get to start a new pilot in the running timeline (maybe same unit, maybe a different unit if you want to, that's debatable) at or shortly after the death of your previous pilot. It doesn't diminish the pressure of iron man, the longer the pilot survives, the more "precious" he still gets. 

 

Well, you could argue that the pressure of losing the timeline is part of the iron man experience. I personally don't see it like that. Maybe just another checkbox "Ironman Extra: no continuing the timeline"?

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mauf

[Herne]

2 minutes ago, Mauf said:

 

Not technically. Your career is over for the dead pilot. What you normally do? You start a new one. Does that defeat iron man?

What I would like is to have the timeline unlinked from the particular pilot if I so desire.

 

Think of it as: Instead of focussing on the career of a single pilot, you follow the story of a unit. You "return" to the unit as a "fresh rookie" pilot, same as if you would start a new career.

Right now, Iron man is sorta: Either you manage to go through the whole BOM/BOS/BOK timeline in one go, or you have to restart from the beginning. All or nothing. My idea would mean, you still can't revive your pilot if he dies, no matter how stupid the circumstances, but you get to start a new pilot in the running timeline (maybe same unit, maybe a different unit if you want to, that's debatable) at or shortly after the death of your previous pilot. It doesn't diminish the pressure of iron man, the longer the pilot survives, the more "precious" he still gets. 

 

I like this. You could make a note of when you died, and potentially rejoin the squadron as a fresh rookie the next day.

[Mauf]

Just now, =FEW=Herne said:

 

I like this. You could make a note of when you died, and potentially rejoin the squadron as a fresh rookie the next day.

 

Not only that. This could be especially interesting if the devs include more mission types and tighten the "danger level" to more historical levels. Think of a russian pilot in the early BOM or a german pilot in the late 45 time facing more and more staggering odds. Unlinking the timeline in iron man (or normal play) would allow more freedom on the attrition rates without making a loss SO fatal that you'll just not play anymore.

[dburne]

It is intriguing. Especially for me flying the Spit in Kuban career, much of the first part of the career are some really long distances, and when flying bomber escorts especially gets very long. I always really dread that when my pilot meets an untimely demise.

[Yogiflight]

23 minutes ago, Mauf said:

Not technically. Your career is over for the dead pilot. What you normally do? You start a new one. Does that defeat iron man?

What I would like is to have the timeline unlinked from the particular pilot if I so desire.

Well you could start a new career in the next phase of your battle. As most of the phases are not that long, you are almost where you want to be.

[Mauf]

5 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

Well you could start a new career in the next phase of your battle. As most of the phases are not that long, you are almost where you want to be.

Technically, yes. Would still be pretty rough and it would still reset the pilot rosters and attrition on the unit (think of downgrading a type since you lost so many of the better one) if I'm not mistaking.

I'm really more about "following the development of a unit".

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mauf

[Yogiflight]

1 minute ago, Mauf said:

I'm really more about "following the development of a unit".

OK, I understand. But to be honest, with the current AI with its suicidal behaviour, I don't really care about them. Most time you have a new squad every week anyway.

[Mauf]

Just now, Yogiflight said:

OK, I understand. But to be honest, with the current AI with its suicidal behaviour, I don't really care about them. Most time you have a new squad every week anyway.

 

One hopes this improves as well:) But one step at a time.

[kanotson]

1 hour ago, Mauf said:

 

Not technically. Your career is over for the dead pilot. What you normally do? You start a new one. Does that defeat iron man?

What I would like is to have the timeline unlinked from the particular pilot if I so desire.

 

Think of it as: Instead of focussing on the career of a single pilot, you follow the story of a unit. You "return" to the unit as a "fresh rookie" pilot, same as if you would start a new career.

Right now, Iron man is sorta: Either you manage to go through the whole BOM/BOS/BOK timeline in one go, or you have to restart from the beginning. All or nothing. My idea would mean, you still can't revive your pilot if he dies, no matter how stupid the circumstances, but you get to start a new pilot in the running timeline (maybe same unit, maybe a different unit if you want to, that's debatable) at or shortly after the death of your previous pilot. It doesn't diminish the pressure of iron man, the longer the pilot survives, the more "precious" he still gets. 

 

Well, you could argue that the pressure of losing the timeline is part of the iron man experience. I personally don't see it like that. Maybe just another checkbox "Ironman Extra: no continuing the timeline"?

 

That's what I missed yesterday. I started another career, but starting from the second chapter (the one where I lost my first pilot). I'll play as if I were unlocking chapters. Your idea would be the perfect way to play, even could be a posibility of a missing in action pilot to return to friendly territory or as liberated prisoner.

[216th_Jordan]

Bailed out or crashed Pilots should really have quite a chance to escape, right now you just know its over if you just step over the frontline, even if there are no units up to 10 or 20km from you. IRL there weren't troops everywhere.

[kestrel79]

What about injuries you could survive? I think old Air Warrior PC game had this feature. 

 

You get shot down and crash, but aren't dead. You're injured and recover a few months or years in a hospital. When you are fit and ready again to fly you pick up the campaign in a new theater and plane set but with the same pilot. It was pretty fun. Can't remember which sim it was that did that.

[Mauf]

22 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

What about injuries you could survive? I think old Air Warrior PC game had this feature. 

 

You get shot down and crash, but aren't dead. You're injured and recover a few months or years in a hospital. When you are fit and ready again to fly you pick up the campaign in a new theater and plane set but with the same pilot. It was pretty fun. Can't remember which sim it was that did that.

 

This is a good idea and would probably fit within the same functional framework. If you have a function to insert a new pilot into the timeline, you can insert the old pilot aswell, simulating downtime for injury. It would address the same problem really.

[Yogiflight]

56 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

Bailed out or crashed Pilots should really have quite a chance to escape, right now you just know its over if you just step over the frontline, even if there are no units up to 10 or 20km from you. IRL there weren't troops everywhere.

I had it two times now, that I came down a short distance behind the enemy frontline and was able to go on in the career. One time I even had to cross the Don to come to my own side.

 

38 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

You get shot down and crash, but aren't dead. You're injured and recover a few months or years in a hospital. When you are fit and ready again to fly you pick up the campaign in a new theater and plane set but with the same pilot. It was pretty fun. Can't remember which sim it was that did that.

Absolutely agreed, so far I always was only three or four days in hospital, even when heavily wounded, before I was flying my next missions.

[kanotson]

15 minutes ago, Mauf said:

 

This is a good idea and would probably fit within the same functional framework. If you have a function to insert a new pilot into the timeline, you can insert the old pilot aswell, simulating downtime for injury. It would address the same problem really.

 

I only see a "problem". If you have two pilots active in the same squadron and time, when you play with one of them, the other should fly controlled by AI.

[seafireliv]

2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I had it two times now, that I came down a short distance behind the enemy frontline and was able to go on in the career. One time I even had to cross the Don to come to my own side.

 

Absolutely agreed, so far I always was only three or four days in hospital, even when heavily wounded, before I was flying my next missions.

 

I did crash what I think was just behind enemy lines a couple of missions before this last one, but could not be exactly sure, especially since the map stop tracking you after you bail. It`s possible you can escape from behind enemy lines, but I`ll have to see it happen in a more certain way (much deeper behind enemy lines), before I`m sure.

 

I`m wondering if they changed the injured mechanic. I did get injured at one point (spot of blood) on screen, expected to be off for a while, but I was back in the saddle next day! "You`re ok, comrade, was just a scratch! back out you go!"

[Yogiflight]

41 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

I did crash what I think was just behind enemy lines a couple of missions before this last one, but could not be exactly sure, especially since the map stop tracking you after you bail. It`s possible you can escape from behind enemy lines, but I`ll have to see it happen in a more certain way (much deeper behind enemy lines), before I`m sure.

I crashlanded my aircraft and I saw exactly were I came down. That's why I was sure, that it was behind the enemy line. The map sometimes also stops tracking, when I crashland, some kilometers before I hit the ground. But I don't know why this is the case. This can be an issue, when you make it in fact behind your lines, but because the game stopped tracking you earlier, it counts you as crashed behind the enemy line.

46 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

I`m wondering if they changed the injured mechanic. I did get injured at one point (spot of blood) on screen, expected to be off for a while, but I was back in the saddle next day! "You`re ok, comrade, was just a scratch! back out you go!"

My heaviest wounding was lately, when I only had about half of the screen, to see where I am, and around it black screen. If it is the same system as in 1946, then it is time to bring the aircraft down to the ground and exit the game, because in 1946 the view got smaller and smaller until you were dead.

[Wolfram-Harms]

20 hours ago, seafireliv said:

Well, I fell behind of the main group after take off...

 

Funny - same thing happens to me in the Bf 109 every time - my wingmen "drive" on within "combat power" range - which should only be use in combat.

 

For bombing attacks (and most other raids into enemy terrain) you should fly HIGH enough.
Don't give a damn when your flight goes in low - fly higher; I'd recommend no lower than 3000 m, better 4000 m.

Go low only when you want to attack bombing target, and only if there are no enemy fighters.

 

If there are E/A, you must decide yourself.
Drop the baby and fight the fighters?
Or dive through them, drop on target, and run with the over-speed? Your choice.

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Wolfram-Harms

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, Wolfram-Harms said:

Funny - same thing happens to me in the Bf 109 every time - my wingmen "drive" on within "combat power" range - which should only be use in combat.

1.3ATA@ 2600RPM is called 'Steig- und Kampfleistung' (climb- and combat power), so it is not completely wrong. I don't have issues with that anymore, as I cut their turn after takeoff, so I am in a good position to climb with them, taking off with 1.3ATA and holding it until I am in the formation. Really an issue is the high cruising speed in ground attack missions. 460km/h means you need combat power (about 2500RPM). That should be reduced to a speed you can hold with nominal power.

[seafireliv]

2 hours ago, Wolfram-Harms said:

 

Funny - same thing happens to me in the Bf 109 every time - my wingmen "drive" on within "combat power" range - which should only be use in combat.

 

For bombing attacks (and most other raids into enemy terrain) you should fly HIGH enough.
Don't give a damn when your flight goes in low - fly higher; I'd recommend no lower than 3000 m, better 4000 m.

Go low only when you want to attack bombing target, and only if there are no enemy fighters.

 

If there are E/A, you must decide yourself.
Drop the baby and fight the fighters?
Or dive through them, drop on target, and run with the over-speed? Your choice.

 

 

 

 

I found if I kept pushing the engine past the green mark on the manifold pressure gauge I sometimes caught up... if I was lucky. that was without a bomb load. With a bombload I get left behind.

 

And I agree, the AI tends to fly too low for my happiness, so I do tend to go higher.

[dburne]

10 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

 

I found if I kept pushing the engine past the green mark on the manifold pressure gauge I sometimes caught up... if I was lucky. that was without a bomb load. With a bombload I get left behind.

 

And I agree, the AI tends to fly too low for my happiness, so I do tend to go higher.

 

Yeah and they rarely fly at the assigned altitude in the mission briefing.

[Wolfram-Harms]

7 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

1.3ATA@ 2600RPM is called 'Steig- und Kampfleistung' (climb- and combat power), so it is not completely wrong.

...an issue is the high cruising speed in ground attack missions. 460km/h means you need combat power...

 

Ah, okay, "Steig- und Kampfleistung" means it should be used after takeoff.
You can fly "combat power" for half an hour, by the way - so it may also be correct for ground attacks?

 

6 hours ago, seafireliv said:

..I agree, the AI tends to fly too low for my happiness, so I do tend to go higher.

 

Highly recommended for survival. doesn't feel so realistic though, to fly so offset to my "gang"...

My next career, I will allow to become flight leader.

As Leader we should be able to take the flight to the altitude we want, I guess.

[klebor]

On 23.05.2018 at 1:55 AM, seafireliv said:

How do the AI p40s go so fast when laden with a huge bomb?

Autolevel autopilot, it makes you fly perfectly straight and you will gain some additional km/h. This option on Expert is a mistake in my opinion however.