BOBP: Where are the bombers?

[BraveSirRobin]

19 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

If western front is where they feel the money’s at, maybe the next chapter will be reusing the Normandy-channel map for 1941-43. Just without the bombers.  

If they go western again they will probably go Italy or Africa and give us 41-43 aircraft that can be used on the Normandy map.  I think people expect a new map if they’re paying $90 for a game.

 

Of course, this doesn’t change whether we get late Eastern eventually.  

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

.... maybe the next chapter will be reusing the Normandy-channel map for 1941-43. Just without the bombers.  

 

Eh...no.

That would be financial suicide.

 

 

[blue_max]

Financially, it would probably make sense to do a couple of smaller land war eastern theatre things. Like a couple of 40$ packs:

 

'flying tigers collectors edition pack: P40A/B versus AM6 zero (1941) + a small Manchuria flavoured dogfight map

'The Cactus air force collectors edition pack: F4F wildcat + p-400 versus AM6 zero (1942) + Betty bomber (AI only) + henderson airfield* flavoured dogfight map.

 

And then just make maps that are quick and dirty to make, don't pretend that they're historically accurate, but hey, you get them basically for free (since the collector planes would cost 25$ individually). And then.... maybe maybe, open up the small sized dogfight maps for modding so the community can make em nice and accurate? That would be my dream scenario

 

* All the modelling of rough terrain and mud for the tanks should really come in handy here. Who needs the challenge of carriers when you have a bombed out mudpool to land on?

[Ribbon]

11 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

It’s a Russian developer.  At some point we are absolutely getting late war Eastern front.

That is quite narrow thinking, they are business company selling their product worldwide so it's likely they will develop what will sell better and gain more profit, especially if they charge different by regions focusing on more profitable region.

I never heard Polish studios develop primary Polish themed games out of pure patriotism.

But in general yes, i believe yak3 and la7 are something that will for sure come into il2 at some point even for now going back to another eastern title doesn't seem attractive at all.

13 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I agree that this flight simulator needs to expand into different areas if it is going to keep on attracting customers. My view is that late war 44/45 eastern front is too similar to what we have. I think that the two best options for the game as it stands are either late war 43/44 Italy or mid war New Guinea. Both of these allow for development of new axis fighters (I'm thinking of the Italian Stallions, the Serie 5 fighters) (Or the famous  Ki43 Oscar and Ki61 Tony) this has been mentioned in other threads so I won't go over it again here.

 

For now, this simulator is a great representation of small scale tactical conflict and many people love it for what it is, especially being so great in VR. I'm one of them.

But for me, if this game is going to survive and continue to grow in different 'theatres of war' then it will need changes to the game engine itself, to usilise 4 or more CPU cores and thus be able to recreate massive air battles, big bomber formations and a large scale ground war. How can you represent the battle for Malta with current engine limitations? Or bombers over the Reich?

 

If they don't evolve the game engine then I'd like to see New Guinea or Italy next as I've said... But where are the bombers?!

Imo as much i would like that, new engine and huge heavy bomber formations are very unlikely to happen....at least with current sim finesse.

IMO those are some unrealistic expectations!

 

In best case scenario i expect them to throw in some famous medium bombers, torp bomber/attackers and expand gameplay on naval ops (pto, mto, Atlantic)......it would mask/bring it much closer to il2:'46 perspective.

Even that seems quite demanding but if they want to evolve gameplay from BoS lvl, keep current customers and attract new ones i see no other way.....let's hope 6th il2 expansion will bring it on!

[LukeFF]

BSR is absolutely right - with the Soviet aircraft yet unmodeled, plus the remaining few late war German planes that have yet to be created, you could easily make a 1944-45 title without stretching things:

• Yak-3
• La-7
• P-39Q
• Yak-9U
• Il-2 with swept-back wings
• Il-10
• Tu-2
• Bf 109 G-10
• Bf 109 G-14/AS
• Fw 190 A-9/F-9
• Ta 152 H
• Ju 87 D-5
• Hs 129 B-3
• He 111 H-20

All of those saw active service to one extent or another in the last 12 months of the war in the East.

Edited February 22, 2021 by LukeFF

[JG_deserteagle540]

Oh yes, make it happen !!

 

The Ta 152C would also fit in fine.

[[DBS]Browning]

Good selection of mid-war stuff in there also, however I think such a late war pack would sell better with a Salamander included.

[BraveSirRobin]

12 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

That is quite narrow thinking, they are business company selling their product worldwide so it's likely they will develop what will sell better and gain more profit, especially if they charge different by regions focusing on more profitable region.

I never heard Polish studios develop primary Polish themed games out of pure patriotism.

 

They have a large Russian customs base.  If the Polish Air Force participated in the battle that eliminated Germany from the war, then a Polish combat flight sim developer would absolutely create a simulation of that event.

 

 

[Ribbon]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

They have a large Russian customs base.  If the Polish Air Force participated in the battle that eliminated Germany from the war, then a Polish combat flight sim developer would absolutely create a simulation of that event.

 

 

And they did it, we already have 3 russian expansions so there comes that, as much yak3 being attractive to me i'd rather see something else that will give variety.....and from russian forum i have impression large part of them want the same...as disappointment PTO cancelation caused there too.

I also believe we in Europe and USA pay more for each dlc (regional prices) so sole numbers regarding playerbase may not be only factor not to mention potential of new  customers attracted by for example by PTO.

My point is that profit dictates business decisions and directions!

Not saying i'm right, i guess we'll see sometime next year where il2 is heading?

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, JG_deserteagle540 said:

Oh yes, make it happen !!

 

The Ta 152C would also fit in fine.

 

The C was never operational.

[CountZero]

40 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

And they did it, we already have 3 russian expansions so there comes that, as much yak3 being attractive to me i'd rather see something else that will give variety.....and from russian forum i have impression large part of them want the same...as disappointment PTO cancelation caused there too.

I also believe we in Europe and USA pay more for each dlc (regional prices) so sole numbers regarding playerbase may not be only factor not to mention potential of new  customers attracted by for example by PTO.

My point is that profit dictates business decisions and directions!

Not saying i'm right, i guess we'll see sometime next year where il2 is heading?

But price of making PTO is higher then late 44-45 east front as they cant get data for airplanes, so next step is more likely to be late east front.

When you look at planset its easy to make, Yak-3, La7, late war Pe2 and Il-2, add late war P-39 for americans and on axis you just do useal 109/190 missing ju87/he111 variant and some paper airplane that flew few test flights from factory and thats it. There is realy nothing els to do 5v5 that is as easy as late east front.

 

Also map dosent have to be big, Berlin can just be off map like Moscow, and game works ok with russian and german airplanes, and online that is still popular option so it would keep buzz going.

Edited February 23, 2021 by CountZero

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

BSR is absolutely right - with the Soviet aircraft yet unmodeled, plus the remaining few late war German planes that have yet to be created, you could easily make a 1944-45 title without stretching things:

• Yak-3
• La-7
• P-39Q
• Yak-9U
• Il-2 with swept-back wings
• Il-10
• Tu-2
• Bf 109 G-10
• Bf 109 G-14/AS
• Fw 190 A-9/F-9
• Ta 152 H
• Ju 87 D-5
• Hs 129 B-3
• He 111 H-20

All of those saw active service to one extent or another in the last 12 months of the war in the East.

One Yak variant that was a workhorse of the late war, but often overlooked in the shadow of the famous Yak-3 and Yak-9U is the Yak-9M, over 4000 were produced and came with two engines, either the regular M-105PF and starting in October 1944 the M-105PF2, same engine as the Yak-3. It had automatic water radiator control and emergency jettison for the canopy.  It had the displaced cockpit position of the 9T but retained the 20mm cannon.
 

[JG_deserteagle540]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

The C was never operational.

 

The HE 162 would be nice and was operational.

[Enceladus828]

12 hours ago, JG_deserteagle540 said:

 

The HE 162 would be nice and was operational.

But only for the last few weeks of the war. If they do decide to make the He-162 it would probably be a Collector plane at best.

[Ribbon]

12 hours ago, CountZero said:

But price of making PTO is higher then late 44-45 east front as they cant get data for airplanes, so next step is more likely to be late east front.

When you look at planset its easy to make, Yak-3, La7, late war Pe2 and Il-2, add late war P-39 for americans and on axis you just do useal 109/190 missing ju87/he111 variant and some paper airplane that flew few test flights from factory and thats it. There is realy nothing els to do 5v5 that is as easy as late east front.

 

Also map dosent have to be big, Berlin can just be off map like Moscow, and game works ok with russian and german airplanes, and online that is still popular option so it would keep buzz going.

Exactly....easy!

One is more demanding, game evolving and provides gameplay variety while other one is easier to do, copy paste and pretty much what we already have gameplay wise.

 

 

 

[LukeFF]

18 hours ago, JG_deserteagle540 said:

 

The HE 162 would be nice and was operational.

 

Indeed - I modeled the cockpit for it for IL2's Ace Expansion Pack and would love to see it modeled here in much higher fidelity. ?

[sevenless]

19 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Yak-3 and Yak-9U is the Yak-9M, 

 

Bring it on. All three of them. You can´t have enough Yaks. Would even love to eventually see a 7B with bubble canopy.

[Algy-Lacey]

On 2/21/2021 at 9:10 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

I agree that this flight simulator needs to expand into different areas if it is going to keep on attracting customers. My view is that late war 44/45 eastern front is too similar to what we have

 

I was evidently wrong on that one, seems that a late war estern front module would be popular. And the fact that it is so similar to what we already have means that it might be more cost effective for the developers to achieve. Ho-hum

 

[CountZero]

On 2/23/2021 at 3:15 AM, JG_deserteagle540 said:

 

The HE 162 would be nice and was operational.

Meteor F.III was more important and can be used on BoN and BoBp map so if any jet is to come that one should have priority, but if map with bases from airplane operated is not neccesary then also YP-80 was operational during WW2 so that one would be better option then onother axis wonder waffe.

 

11 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Exactly....easy!

One is more demanding, game evolving and provides gameplay variety while other one is easier to do, copy paste and pretty much what we already have gameplay wise.

 

 

 

 

If idea is to just use game engine as it is, it makes sence to do what todays game engine can do , and leve other fancy things for when next gen game is planed to be developed. With this late it dosent look like making big changes to game core should be good, just use time for DLCs that work with not mutch hussle, and prepare for next gen of ww2 sim after no more DLCs for this one make sence.

Edited February 24, 2021 by CountZero

[Ribbon]

13 hours ago, CountZero said:

idea is to just use game engine as it is, it makes sence to do what todays game engine can do , and leve other fancy things for when next gen game is planed to be developed. With this late it dosent look like making big changes to game core should be good, just use time for DLCs that work with not mutch hussle, and prepare for next gen of ww2 sim after no more DLCs for this one make sence.

Could be (won't claim what only devs know) and i generally agree!

However i think with current engine it's not dead end situation to bring variety and evolve game on next level.

Medium and torpedo bombers could run well in current engine (he111 is here, ships are here too) so there is option to bring Il2 on higher level....it doesn't have to be Midway and carrier ops.

[CountZero]

48 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Could be (won't claim what only devs know) and i generally agree!

However i think with current engine it's not dead end situation to bring variety and evolve game on next level.

Medium and torpedo bombers could run well in current engine (he111 is here, ships are here too) so there is option to bring Il2 on higher level....it doesn't have to be Midway and carrier ops.

I see them deciding to test some axis collector bomber with torpedos that fit BoN area, but only if B-25 or B-26 get some succes when they get lanched as collector airplanes.

But i start to doubt they will make any more DLCs for this game after they do Poland 45, it would be 2024 when that one is done if its next and by that time i think they will go for new game engine and only collector airplanes here and there for this, as i dont see what other 5v5 is posible without need for engine optimasations or serch for airplane data they cant get.

[=621=Samikatz]

15 hours ago, CountZero said:

Meteor F.III was more important and can be used on BoN and BoBp map so if any jet is to come that one should have priority

 

I'd love to do V-1 intercepts in that thing on the BoN map. Fighter jets chasing down terror-bombing drones sounds like something from the 2040s, not the 1940s, but it's a real part of history that I don't think any good simulator has covered, yet

[AndyJWest]

11 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

 

I'd love to do V-1 intercepts in that thing on the BoN map. Fighter jets chasing down terror-bombing drones sounds like something from the 2040s, not the 1940s, but it's a real part of history that I don't think any good simulator has covered, yet

 

You can do it in IL-2 '46. Not in a Meteor (at least in the stock version) but a P-51 or Tempest will just about catch them if you start above.  

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by AndyJWest

[Algy-Lacey]

On 2/24/2021 at 5:50 PM, CountZero said:

But i start to doubt they will make any more DLCs for this game after they do Poland 45, it would be 2024 when that one is done if its next and by that time i think they will go for new game engine and only collector airplanes here and there for this, as i dont see what other 5v5 is posible without need for engine optimasations or serch for airplane data they cant get.

 

I can see a good 5 v 5 with the game engine as it is now, and it would take us to a new part of the world for this iteration of IL-2.

 

 

IL-2 Battle of Italy

 

With a map covering the coast near Anzio and the Winter Line including the Gustav line, stunning mountain scenery and a mediterranean feel.

Here is a possible 5 v 5 plus collectors planes. I know I have posted about this before, it's simply because I would love to see it manifest

 

Allies

P-40 F or L or M

P38 F or G or H

Spitfire Mk VIII

Mosquito B MkIV (did it serve in the med? I think so)

Beaufighter (with torpedo)

 

Collectors Plane:

B-25 Mitchell

or

Westland Lysander

 

Axis

Reggiane 2001 Falco

Macchi 205 Veltro
Fiat G55 Centauro
Reggiane 2005 Sagittario

Fieseler Fi 156 Storch

 

Collectors Plane:

Savoia-Marchetti S.M.79 Sparviero (with torpedo)

 

Aircraft that we have already that fits this battle... (I've probably missed some out)

 

Allies:

P51 C Mustang
P51 D Mustang
Hurricane Mk II
Douglas A 20B

 

Axis:

Macchi 202 Folgore
Bf 109 F4
Bf 109 G2
Bf109 G4
Fw 190 A5 (?)
Ju 87 D3
Bf 110 G2

Ju 88

 

Does anyone have different aircraft suggestions for a 'Battle of Italy'?

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Algy-Lacey
Request for flyable B-25

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I can see a good 5 v 5 with the game engine as it is now, and it would take us to a new part of the world for this iteration of IL-2.

 

 

IL-2 Battle of Italy

 

With a map covering the coast near Anzio and the Winter Line including the Gustav line, stunning mountain scenery and a mediterranean feel.

Here is a possible 5 v 5 plus collectors planes. I know I have posted about this before, it's simply because I would love to see it manifest

 

Allies

P-40 F or L or M

P38 F or G or H

Spitfire Mk VIII

Mosquito B MkIV (did it serve in the med? I think so)

Beaufighter (with torpedo)

 

Collectors Plane:

P-61 Black Widow

or

Westland Lysander

 

Axis

Reggiane 2001 Falco

Macchi 205 Veltro
Fiat G55 Centauro
Reggiane 2005 Sagittario

Savoia-Marchetti S.M.79 Sparviero (with torpedo)

 

Collectors Plane:

Fieseler Fi 156 Storch

 

Aircraft that we have already that fits this battle... (I've probably missed some out)

 

Allies:

P51 C Mustang
P51 D Mustang
Hurricane Mk II
Douglas A 20B

 

Axis:

Macchi 202 Folgore
Bf 109 F4
Bf 109 G2
Bf109 G4
Fw 190 A5 (?)
Ju 87 D3
Bf 110 G2

Ju 88 A4

 

Does anyone have different aircraft suggestions for a 'Battle of Italy'?

 

BUT no 109/190 combo  

 

Yes i would like Italy mostly because map are would work great with detail high game can do, but it would also be pushing engine to limits and dont have players favorit combo.

3 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

 

I'd love to do V-1 intercepts in that thing on the BoN map. Fighter jets chasing down terror-bombing drones sounds like something from the 2040s, not the 1940s, but it's a real part of history that I don't think any good simulator has covered, yet

Yes you could have SP campaign with them hunting V1s, and also GA later in war, and it would something new and not just another axis jet.

[migmadmarine]

For mid-late war there they are going to be running out of 109s/190s Count, so if anything Italy has the advantage of not having those, leaving them available for fronts down the road that require a 109/190 for the Germans, like Berlin/Kurland/bagration. 

[Enceladus828]

For Italy, you would need 3 maps: one for Sicily, Gustav Line, and the Gothic Line. 

I don't really know much about Italy from late 1943 onwards, but my best guess is that when starting at Sicily you could have Italian aircraft and Allied aircraft that can also be used in BoN. But as you progress further it would most likely be Allied vs. German planes, and very few Italian planes.

Italy from 1944-45 would probably just be a DLC for BoN and BoBP.

Once again, my knowledge about Italy from 1943 onwards is quite small, so I could be wrong.

 

Anyway, I feel that players would be more interested in a late war Eastern Front, and/or a Battle of Bagration that could have a 1941 and 1943 planeset so you could have 2 battles in one installment. It would also add the long requested Ju-87B-2 and Russian bombers like the Tu-2S, and/or IL-4, and give the BoM planes another place to fly over.

 

[CountZero]

I made sugestion about what i saw douable at time with Italy DLC:

 

But i think there was still to big naval presence to just avoid it, so thats limiting.

[J2_Oelmann]

On 2/24/2021 at 9:19 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I can see a good 5 v 5 with the game engine as it is now, and it would take us to a new part of the world for this iteration of IL-2.

 

 

IL-2 Battle of Italy

 

With a map covering the coast near Anzio and the Winter Line including the Gustav line, stunning mountain scenery and a mediterranean feel.

Here is a possible 5 v 5 plus collectors planes. I know I have posted about this before, it's simply because I would love to see it manifest

 

Allies

P-40 F or L or M

P38 F or G or H

Spitfire Mk VIII

Mosquito B MkIV (did it serve in the med? I think so)

Beaufighter (with torpedo)

 

Collectors Plane:

P-61 Black Widow

or

Westland Lysander

 

Axis

Reggiane 2001 Falco

Macchi 205 Veltro
Fiat G55 Centauro
Reggiane 2005 Sagittario

Savoia-Marchetti S.M.79 Sparviero (with torpedo)

 

Collectors Plane:

Fieseler Fi 156 Storch

 

Aircraft that we have already that fits this battle... (I've probably missed some out)

 

Allies:

P51 C Mustang
P51 D Mustang
Hurricane Mk II
Douglas A 20B

 

Axis:

Macchi 202 Folgore
Bf 109 F4
Bf 109 G2
Bf109 G4
Fw 190 A5 (?)
Ju 87 D3
Bf 110 G2

Ju 88 A4

 

Does anyone have different aircraft suggestions for a 'Battle of Italy'?

 

Would love this. Very doable aswell.

[[DBS]Browning]

Add a B25 to the list!

[Algy-Lacey]

On 2/27/2021 at 7:58 PM, [DBS]Browning said:

Add a B25 to the list!

 

I will do just that...

How about a flyable B-25 as collector plane for Allies... and a flyable S.M.79 for Axis? We can dream...

Edited March 3, 2021 by Algy-Lacey
we have Ju 88 already

[SYN_Ricky]

16 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I will do just that...

How about a flyable B-25 as collector plane for Allies... and a flyable Junkers 88 for Axis? We can dream...

Ju-88 is already flyable in game, or I did not understand your post correctly...

[Algy-Lacey]

7 hours ago, SYN_Ricky said:

Ju-88 is already flyable in game, or I did not understand your post correctly...

 

Of course, you're right. That shows how much attention I've paid. Bad form!

 

So, a Savoia Marchetti S.M.79 Sparviero as a flyable bomber and torpedo bomber then

[Bremspropeller]

On 2/24/2021 at 9:19 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

Allies

P-40 F or L or M

P38 F or G or H

 

All of them! ?

[Enceladus828]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:32 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

and a flyable S.M.79 for Axis?

The SM.79 only operated in the Mediterranean and it's effectiveness from 1943 onwards greatly diminished. I don't see 1CGS going to the MTO anytime in the near future, so there's next to no chance that this airplane will be made for this game.

 

How about the Do-217?