Does anyone have data on RS-82 performance?

[Finkeren]

I'm really having fun with those little buggers in BoS, but I'd like to know a bit more about, how they actually performed.

 

It seems obvious, that the regular HE RS-82 didn't perform very well it the ground attack role, except perhaps as a harrassment weapon or an occasional lucky direct hit against a soft target, but does anyone have any data about their performance in the timed fuse air-to-air role?

 

My guess is that they weren't too effective either in that regard, since the VVS quickly shifted its focus to heavier armament for their fighters instead of further developing the '82. However, I have no idea of their actual performance. Was air-to-air kills with rockets something almost completely unheard of, or was it a viable but just kinda difficult to use weapon with low efficiency?

 

In the old IL2 the RS-82 was a pretty devastating weapon, even in the latest 4.12 version of the game with its much less accurate rockets. Even though it's nothing like that in BoS, I can definately see rocket kills against bombers as being a realistic scenario, and I wonder if it should be.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Finkeren

[mudpuppy]

Just some quick searching and the airwar.ru page had this entry:

http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/anur/rs82-132.html

 

For ground attack, like you said, the biggest drawback was the scatter of the projectiles after firing.  A direct hit would likely guarantee a bad day for a PzII or a Pz 38, but it looks like those are quite unlikely.  

 

There is a section of this link that relates successful use of RS-82 against Japanese fighters during the Khalkin-Gol conflict.  The net translation has me scratching my head as to what is actually being said......so perhaps some Russian speaking members can help.  Look about 1/3 down the page under a pic of a LaGG3 with RS-82 rockets and you'll see this reference.  It would be interesting to know if these unguided missiles actually scored hits, like the (bad) translation suggests.

Regards,

Derek

[bivalov]

I'm really having fun with those little buggers in BoS, but I'd like to know a bit more about, how they actually performed.

 

It seems obvious, that the regular HE RS-82 didn't perform very well it the ground attack role, except perhaps as a harrassment weapon or an occasional lucky direct hit against a soft target,

besides link above, i already given correct info from one of sources, which use developers, about rockets in game at this moment, plus attach now another scan from book with more typical for 42 and later, m-8s...

 

in total, no one never claimed or wrote, what early rockets like ROS-82 are accurate weapon, like and any similar rockets of other sides, it's exactly "area weapon", although some late types of m-8 and RBS-82 could have really better performance...

 

but does anyone have any data about their performance in the timed fuse air-to-air role?

looks like no serious differences in air-to-air role, besides another conditions of firing and needful types of fuses...

 

...since the VVS quickly shifted its focus to heavier armament for their fighters instead of further developing the '82.

what you mean? permanent changes for 82 mm rockets were during almost all war, although for many modern fighters by many reasons - weight, loss of speed etc - rockets not used starting from may'42, if i'm not mistaken with correct date...

 

btw, but some or even many pilots still liked this "good poweful weapon", anyway, and for example, hurris/i-16 still use rockets and in 43, if i'm not mistaken again, with info from some reports...

 

...or was it a viable but just kinda difficult to use weapon with low efficiency?

 

Even though it's nothing like that in BoS, I can definately see rocket kills against bombers as being a realistic scenario, and I wonder if it should be.

of course, second variant, in best case... and most likely, rockets be good just as "fear weapon"/hits by fragments of projectile by close explosions, and it's main real practice, how i know...

[AX2]

http://vadimvswar.narod.ru/ALL_OUT/TiVOut9801/IL2AT/IL2AT002.htm

 

 

Combat experience in the initial period of the Great Patriotic War showed that when strafe IL-2 can attack only unsheeted manpower and vehicles in areas of concentration and in the columns.

Mechanized columns Il-2 usually strafe (altitude approach to the goal of 25-30 m) along the column or at an angle 15-20 ° to its long side.

The first blow was delivered by the head of the column in order to stop its movement. Range 500-600 m opening fire Aiming carried by "column at all" zeroing with tracer bullets from machine guns ShKAS. Then, based on the position relative to the target track bullets, opened fire from guns and PC. All kinds of fire (machine gun, cannon, and PC, as well as reset bombs) were used in one go.

Effectiveness of fire onboard IL-2 on the values ​​that were columns (infantry vehicles, armored vehicles, artillery, etc., except for tanks), was high enough. Although, in fairness, it should be noted that aiming at a "column at all", as shown by field tests, in most cases, gave low accuracy and attack the target with all its swiftness and surprise, only leads to pointless waste of ammunition with virtually no damage to the enemy

 

 

Thus, during the NPC in AB AFRA field tests gun armament of IL-2 in relation to assault entrenched in the army regiments method attacks the German mechanized columns, it became clear that the attack column, consisting of tanks, infantry vehicles and a total length of 600 m, three pilot 245th Shap, who had combat experience, in terms of range, ie in the absence of counter fighters and antiaircraft artillery, were able to achieve a total of 9 (!) bullet hits in the tank at a total flow rate of 300 rounds of ammunition to the guns ShVAK and 1290 rounds of machine guns ShKAS. Shooting with aiming at a separate tank from the column under the same conditions provided in three attacks in the general flow of departures 553 shells 20 hits in a column of tanks, of which six hits in the tank pickup point, the rest - in other tanks from the column.

Regular polygon firing missiles RS-82 and PC-132 conducted in NPC AB AFRA, as well as the experience of combat use of IL-2 on the front, showed the lack of effectiveness of these weapons by the action of small targets due to the wide dispersion of shells and hence, the low probability of hitting the target.

Average percentage of hits in the RS-82 tank aiming point when firing from a distance of 400-500 m, as shown in the materials of the report, was 1.1%, and in a column of tanks - 3.7%, while the shells of 186 issued, a total of 7 direct hits. Height approach to the goal - 100 m and 400 m, the angles planning - 5-10 ° and 30 °, respectively, Targeting Range - 800 m shooting was carried out by single volley of shells and 2, 4 and 8 shells.

When firing revealed that RS-82 can defeat the German light tanks type Pz.ll Ausf F, Pz.38 (t) Ausf C, and an armored car Sd Kfz 250 only when a direct hit. Gap RS-82 in the vicinity of the tank (0.5-1 m) any injury it is not harmful. Smallest interquartile turned in a salvo of 4 at an angle of planning RSov 30 °.

 

 

 

Опыт боевых действий в начальный период Великой Отечественной войны показал, что при атаках с бреющего полета Ил-2 способны поражать лишь неукрытую живую силу противника и его автотранспорт в местах сосредоточения и в колоннах.

Мотомеханизированные колонны штурмовики Ил-2 обычно атаковали с бреющего полета (высота подхода к цели 25-30 м) вдоль колонны или под углом 15-20° к ее длинной стороне.

Первый удар наносился по голове колонны с целью приостановления ее движения. Дальность открытия огня 500-600 м. Прицеливание осуществлялось по "колонне вообще" с пристрелкой трассирующими пулями из пулеметов ШКАС. Затем, с учетом положения трассы пуль относительно цели, открывался огонь из пушек и PC. Все виды огня (пулеметный, пушечный и PC, а также сброс авиабомб) использовались в одном заходе.

Действенность бортового огня Ил-2 по целям, составлявшим колонны (пехота на машинах, бронемашины, артиллерия и т.д., исключая танки), была достаточно высокой. Хотя, справедливости ради, необходимо отметить, что прицеливание по "колонне вообще", как показали полигонные испытания, в большинстве случаев давало низкую точность стрельбы и атака цели, при всей своей стремительности и внезапности, приводила лишь к бесцельной трате боеприпасов практически без ущерба для противника.

 

Так, во время проведения в НИП АВ ВВС КА полигонных испытаний стрелково-пушечного вооружения Ил-2 применительно к укоренившемуся в штурмовых авиаполках действующей армии способу атак немецких мотомеханизированных колонн стало ясно, что при атаке колонны, состоящей из танков, автомашин и пехоты общей длиной около 600 м, три летчика 245-го шап, имевшие боевой опыт, в полигонных условиях, то есть в отсутствии противодействия истребителей и зенитной артиллерии противника, смогли добиться всего 9(!) пулевых попаданий в танк при общем расходе боеприпасов в 300 снарядов к пушкам ШВАК и 1290 патронов к пулеметам ШКАС. Стрельба с прицеливанием по отдельному танку из состава колонны в тех же условиях атак обеспечила в трех вылетах при общем расходе 553 снарядов 20 попаданий в колонну танков, из них 6 попаданий в танк точки наводки, остальные - в другие танки из состава колонны.

Полигонные стрельбы штатными реактивными снарядами РС-82 и PC-132, проведенные в НИП АВ ВВС КА, так же как и опыт боевого применения Ил-2 на фронте, показали недостаточную эффективность этого вида оружия при действии по малоразмерным целям ввиду большого рассеивания снарядов и, следовательно, малой вероятности попадания в цель.

Средний процент попаданий РС-82 в танк точки наводки при стрельбе с дистанции 400-500 м, показанный в материалах отчета, составил 1,1%, а в колонну танков - 3,7%, при этом из 186 выпущенных снарядов было получено всего 7 прямых попаданий. Высота подхода к цели - 100 м и 400 м, углы планирования - 5-10° и 30° соответственно, дальность прицеливания - 800 м. Стрельба велась одиночными снарядами и залпом по 2, 4 и 8 снарядов.

При стрельбах выяснилось, что РС-82 может нанести поражение немецким легким танкам типа Pz.ll Ausf F, Pz.38(t) Ausf С, а также бронемашине Sd Kfz 250 только при прямом попадании. Разрыв РС-82 в непосредственной близости от танка (0,5-1 м) никакого поражения ему не наносит. Наименьшее вероятное отклонение получалось в залпе из 4-х РСов при угле планирования 30°.

[JtD]

Thanks for the extra info, guys. I'd love to see the original test reports the 2nd source Mustang posted is based on.

[bivalov]

Thanks for the extra info, guys. I'd love to see the original test reports the 2nd source Mustang posted is based on.

you mean what interested in original reports, tests etc which used Perov/Rastrenin, in their titanic work about il-2? besides text of articles, books etc, i think it's almost impossible, only if you know these authors, good contacts with historians etc...

 

or something could be in Rodionov's Chronology, i just repeat, what in this compilation have many different documents, maybe including of P./R., Rodionov could get their from authors... plus have many quotes from Reznichenko, although, if you really interested in concrete full information, single way it's buying book (what have in forums, like scan in my post from R., you can see this in my links in topic about accuracy)...

 

and attached drawing of different fuses'41 for ROS-82, just for interest...

 

btw, on one of pages in book i now looked, most likely, that ending of production of RS-82 (132) for aviation - ie RS-82>M-8 ans ROFS-132>M-13 etc - plus just ending of reserves of these rockets in beginning'42, it's one of reasons of ending of use for air-to-air attacks, besides it's just ending of use of RS-82/132...

[bivalov]

absolutely forgot about real practice during BOS, from P./R., of course - "На удары по немецким аэродромам в ноябре – декабре 1942 г. штурмовики Ил-2 в среднем затратили до 25% всех самолето-вылетов, на воздушную разведку – 20%, а на "свободную охоту" и перехват самолетов противника до 15%. Остальные боевые вылеты штурмовиками были выполнены на оказание непосредственной авиационной поддержки своим войскам, действуя по войскам противника на поле боя и его резервам в местах сосредоточения.

Борьба с транспортными самолетами противника в воздухе велась самолетами Ил-2 в этот период обычно парами, а на участках особо интенсивных полетов – звеньями и эскадрильями. Атака производилась с различных направлений, но преимущественно с задней полусферы на дальностях от 400 до 50 м. Немецкие самолеты поражались главным образом стрелково-пушечным огнем. Однако отмечалось применение против транспортных самолетов и PC. Лучшие летчики-штурмовики работали с минимально коротких дистанций, порядка 180-200 м, и добивались прямых попаданий реактивных снарядов в одиночные немецкие самолеты. Наилучшие результаты получались при стрельбе РСами по плотным боевым порядкам. В этом случае огонь велся залпом по 2-4 реактивных снаряда или серией по 2 PC. При этом дистанционные трубки устанавливались на различные дистанции с временным интервалом 0,15-0,2 сек."