Why can't we have a Luger and Tokarev?

[NETSCAPE]

Oooo gun talk, as a burger (ie an American with muh freedoms) I have shot most of the major small arms of WW2.

 

When it comes to pistols I think the Luger is the coolest, based on all total cool factors (I also own one btw).

 

I really do like the grip of the 1911 but the sites are horribly FAT and I couldn't hit jack with them past 20m. 

 

The Tokerav is fun to shoot but the grip and trigger pull felt not so good to me.

 

I find the Walter PP to be the SEXIEST of the WW2 era lot. nb4 "muh .45 cal-i-ber herp derp"

 

Unfortunately I never had the opportunity to shoot any of the Japanese pistols.

 

As for taking all factors into account I'd prefer the P38 overall.

[Gambit21]

8 hours ago, NETSCAPE said:

Oooo gun talk, as a burger (ie an American with muh freedoms)

I really do like the grip of the 1911 but the sites are horribly FAT and I couldn't hit jack with them past 20m. 

 

 

As someone in the same boat...for me pistol range is well inside of 20m.

I mean if I'm grouping tight center of mass, 6" or so,  instinctively inside of 15 yards (usually 10)  I'm happy.

That said this is all with modern stuff...I've never fired anything WWII vintage.

If you can shoot any pistol and get 9 shots center of mass 20 meters or further my hats off to you.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Gambit21

[NETSCAPE]

16 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

As someone in the same boat...for me pistol range is well inside of 20m.

I mean if I'm grouping tight center of mass, 6" or so,  instinctively inside of 15 yards (usually 10)  I'm happy.

That said this is all with modern stuff...I've never fired anything WWII vintage.

If you can shoot any pistol and get 9 shots center of mass 20 meters or further my hats off to you.

 

Oh man I really, REALLY suck at shooting pistols (just don't have enough time into it). Long guns with iron sites, preferably basic notch sites, not american peep style, are my thing.

[Arfsix]

Attention; Spoiler Alert: The following is a true to life, no BS, real war story!

There I was –

     On my first tour in Viet Nam (1965-1966) as an enlisted man, I was issued the M16 as my personal weapon. Unofficially I carried a Luger Pistol Parabellum Model 1908 or P08 as an unauthorized weapon in a don’t ask, don’t tell situation. In many cases, we were not supposed to be armed when we were away from base (laundry runs, buying beer from the locals, running errands, etc.) Luckily, I returned to the states with all the ammunition I had taken with me.

     As an Army Aviator on my next trip (1970-1971) I was issued a Smith & Wesson Model 10 (Victory Model) .38 caliber revolver. Many of the younger pilots would submerge their Model 10 in oil, wrap the oily pistol in a boot sock, wrap the sock wrapped pistol in plastic and stick it in their holster (so they wouldn’t have to fool with the pistol, only to find later that the action had frozen up in the high jungle humidity and they could not pull the trigger to fire one round!

     I preferred the stopping power and reliability of the Pistol, Caliber .45, Automatic, M1911A1 and was allowed to carry the Colt .45 cal. Instead of .38 cal. Smith & Wesson. The whole purpose of the pistol is to make the other guy stop doing whatever he is doing that annoys you. To this day, I find the stopping power of the .45 to be reassuring and carry a Colt Officer's Model .45 (short barrel).

     As a helicopter pilot, I wasn’t likely to bail out of the aircraft, but from a survival stand point the rules were the same. As you may not be able to return to the aircraft, if you did not have the equipment on your person or in your hand when you left the aircraft, you didn’t have it. Rifles were not considered practical for self-defense as they were too big to fit in the cockpit and if the range was that long, you would do better by running away and hiding.  I was able to requisition the M79 40 mm grenade launcher and twenty rounds of M576 buckshot rounds containing twenty 24-grain metal pellets and ten M406 40 mm HE (high explosive) grenades. The 40MM was slung over the back over the pilot’s armored seat and the ammo was in a canvas bag between the seat and the cockpit fuselage, ready to hand. Don’t leave home without it!

Edited May 12, 2018 by Arfsix

[InProgress]

hmm i thought revolvers died after ww1 and only british still had them in ww2. I don't see how this could be an actual gun given to soldiers in 1970. 6 shots and bye. Seems like it's not even recommended for selfdefence.

[NETSCAPE]

53 minutes ago, InProgress said:

hmm i thought revolvers died after ww1 and only british still had them in ww2. I don't see how this could be an actual gun given to soldiers in 1970. 6 shots and bye. Seems like it's not even recommended for selfdefence.

 

Actually I'm probably going to pick up a revolver for self defense. Why? One word: RELIABILITY. 

 

I don't plan on getting in a shoot out. 3-4 shots and disengage...

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, InProgress said:

hmm i thought revolvers died after ww1 and only british still had them in ww2.

 

Nope, the Soviets still produced and issued the M1895 Nagant all the way to the end of WW2. The French issued revolvers as well.

[InProgress]

12 hours ago, NETSCAPE said:

 

Actually I'm probably going to pick up a revolver for self defense. Why? One word: RELIABILITY. 

 

I don't plan on getting in a shoot out. 3-4 shots and disengage...

After watching some videos from Active Self Protection YT channel, i would never use revolver. Gun fight don't seem to look like it's movie where you put 1 bullet and the end. I don't think anyone is planning that but it happens and sometimes you don't have choice. Seen video from that channel where cop had revolver and there were 2 bad guys, he shot them, hit them, was hit yet everyone was still standing and shooting. He run out of ammo instantly and he was alive only because bad guy's gun jammed. Unless you are Clint Eastwood fromThe Good, the Bad and the Ugly i don't think revolver is good idea

 

I would probably take glock and be happy with it.

 

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Nope, the Soviets still produced and issued the M1895 Nagant all the way to the end of WW2. The French issued revolvers as well.

Well, still i don't see how using this would be good idea, slow, not many bullets, longer reload. And i think i am right since most if not all armies now use normal pistols.

Edited May 14, 2018 by InProgress

[NETSCAPE]

11 hours ago, InProgress said:

After watching some videos from Active Self Protection YT channel, i would never use revolver. Gun fight don't seem to look like it's movie where you put 1 bullet and the end. I don't think anyone is planning that but it happens and sometimes you don't have choice. Seen video from that channel where cop had revolver and there were 2 bad guys, he shot them, hit them, was hit yet everyone was still standing and shooting. He run out of ammo instantly and he was alive only because bad guy's gun jammed. Unless you are Clint Eastwood fromThe Good, the Bad and the Ugly i don't think revolver is good idea

 

I would probably take glock and be happy with it.

 

Well, still i don't see how using this would be good idea, slow, not many bullets, longer reload. And i think i am right since most if not all armies now use normal pistols.

 

nope, look at amount of rounds fired by people in confrontations... point is if you're a citizen carrying, you are not supposed to act like Jon Rambo. You shoot rounds and disengage. The average person (criminal and concealed carry people) shoot at eachother while running and dodging. Again, look at the data. Most situations don't involve the need for 15 rounds. 

 

Sure I could run some scenario where a gang of 5 dudes needs to be "taken out" ... why argue for a glock then? oh wait is the range 50, 100 meterse? Better bring out my AR-15, wait do they have ffriends? better bring an MG...hell call in fire support while we're at it...

 

At the end of the day, any gun is better than no gun. "Wow I'm really glad that guy with the .357mag only shot me twice rather than 5 times with a glock" - said no one ever.

[InProgress]

I guess it all depends on person style and preferences. In my country i can only shoot on official shooting ranges so i don't have problem choosing what gun is the best since i can't choose any My idea of defending would be fast glock where i can shoot and reload fast, even if it's only 9mm. I can't really imagine me with revolver, especially big one

[Yogiflight]

On 10.5.2018 at 1:36 PM, BlitzPig_EL said:

Having shot all of the REAL ones myself,  I'd take the P.38 over the P.08 any day if really going into harm's way.  More accurate, more reliable, easier to maintain in the field.

There has to be a reason, why the german army used them as P1 until late 90s. But TBH I never was really good shooting with it. During reserve exercises I was shooting one or two times with the successor P8, and it was definitely better in the hand than the P1.

[Pict]

On 5/6/2018 at 12:27 PM, Frenchy56 said:

You know, someone might have shot down a Jap plane in the Pacific this way.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_J._Baggett

 

That's gold  

 

I wonder, did he bounce the shots off a cloud to get into the soft underbelly of the plane?...and was it a .50 cal? 

 

============

 

"While Baggett later achieved fame as the only person to shoot down an aircraft with a pistol,[1][4][12][13][14] this was contradicted by Japanese wartime records,[7] which indicate that no Japanese pilots were lost in that particular action.[15]"

 

Looks like he was the only person to over-claim from a parachute too

Edited May 15, 2018 by Pict

[BlitzPig_EL]

Actually the Walther P1 was replaced by a trio of pistols, the Walther P5, the Sig P6, and the HK P7.

 

I own a P1 and a P5.  Excellent pistols for their time.  I still shoot both of them regularly.

My P1 is a former Bundeswehr  piece, and the P5 formerly belonged to the Bundesministerium des Innern.

[Yogiflight]

The standart pistol of the Heer(ground forces) is the P8, but Wikipedia says, even the P1 is still in some units. Maybe like the K98 for representation.

But of course I don't know which weapons are used in special units like KSK, and Marine and Luftwaffe.

[Bremspropeller]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 11:23 AM, Yogiflight said:

The standart pistol of the Heer(ground forces) is the P8, but Wikipedia says, even the P1 is still in some units. Maybe like the K98 for representation.

But of course I don't know which weapons are used in special units like KSK, and Marine and Luftwaffe.

 

Unless you go for the Special Needs guys, it's P8s all the way (well, it used to be when I was wearing camo, back in 2005/06).

The guns mentioned by EL weren't issued to standard GI Joe personnel, but maybe Feldjäger (MP) or other Special Services outside of normal grunt duty.

 

@Arfsix, your story sounds interesting! How many mags would you usually carry when going into Indian Country?  

[Arfsix]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:41 PM, Bremspropeller said:

 

 

@Arfsix, your story sounds interesting! How many mags would you usually carry when going into Indian Country?  

 

     For the Luger, I had two magazines of 9mm and standard load out of six 20 round mags for the M 16. When I flew I carried 4 mags of .45 and 30 assorted rounds in a canvas shoulder bag for the grenade launcher.  The pistols were strictly for self protection and the best defense in a escape and evade situation is to not be noticed and quietly go away! ?