50KG bombs Useless on level bombing?

[E69_geramos109]

Hi. I have found that to drop a big ordenance of this bombs on alttitude is kind of uselees because the bombs make a perfect line so you just damage if something is on this line. 

 

I think there should be some kind of dispersion so bombs can cover a line but with some area so you can almost cover an arfield with some bombers. Would be great improve of realism for bomber pilots and  more pleasant to make some big formation bomber sorties. 

That effect was so nice done on IL21946

[=RvE=Windmills]

Why would the bombs noticeably disperse after you drop them?

 

As far as I remember that didn't happen in 1946 either btw.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Does op know that you can change the drop interval between bombs to increase the length of the "line"? 

 

Of course one can not make the bombs travel perpendicular to the aircraft's heading. 

[Custard]

Is there any real reason why the bombs would disperse? Any force on one bomb would be the same as on its neighbour, it wouldn't make sense for them to spread out as they fall unless they were all different sizes and shapes.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Custard

[xvii-Dietrich]

The other aspect is that a single plane drops a single line of bombs.

A formation of planes, flying side-by-side, does indeed saturate the area.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

1 minute ago, Custard said:

Is there any real reason why the bombs would disperse? Any force on one bomb would be the same as on its neighbour, it wouldn't make sense for them to spread out as they fall unless they were all different sizes and shapes.

There will be some dispersion caused by small differences in the bomb properties, atmosphere, and initial drop conditions. Of course, the magnitude will depend on many factors. I'm not sure about its significance without seeing any data. 

[Royal_Flight]

If you open the bombsite view you can set the release interval via a button at the bottom right. It cycles through four intervals from .05, .1, .25 and .5 of a second (if memory serves). 

That should get a bit more dispersal.

 

It doesn’t sound like much but a half-second between bomb releases covers a lot of ground, especially with the Ju 88 carrying 28 separate bombs. That probably gives you more separation than you’ll realistically ever need for a single target. 

[AndyJWest]

Tho OP should probably take a look at the London Blitz bomb maps: http://www.bombsight.org/#17/51.50978/-0.16269

 

A clear example of a line of 9 H.E. bombs dropped on Hyde Park:

 

So yes, they often dropped in near enough a straight line.

[56RAF_Roblex]

24 minutes ago, Custard said:

Is there any real reason why the bombs would disperse? Any force on one bomb would be the same as on its neighbour, it wouldn't make sense for them to spread out as they fall unless they were all different sizes and shapes.

 

If you watch a WW2 film of bombs dropping from a  bomb bay, especially a large number of small bombs, what you will frequently see is they are all tumbling as they leave and take a few seconds to stabilise so in that time many of them will move a little horizontally.  Large bombs probably stayed closer in line but the OP was talking about 50Kg bombs.

 

Jump to 3:42 in this video I picked at random and you will see what I mean.

 

 

 

Here is another example. It shows bombs dropping as filmed from the bomb bay in the first ten seconds of the video and you can very clearly see some of the bombs dispersing.   https://www.britishpathe.com/video/bombs-dropping

Edited May 2, 2018 by 56RAF_Roblex

[[DBS]Browning]

A little, yes. Perhaps a metre. Maybe two. 

Heavy things falling fast are super stable.

[Yogiflight]

7 minutes ago, Royal_Flight said:

It doesn’t sound like much but a half-second between bomb releases covers a lot of ground, especially with the Ju 88 carrying 28 separate bombs. That probably gives you more separation than you’ll realistically ever need for a single target.

The problem, when flying the Ju88 is, the distances between the bombs is allmost fifty meters, with the 50kg bombs having a quite low destructive radius. So you will have pretty large gaps between your bombs, where targets stay intact.

And besides that, with 28, or even 44 bombs, flying the Ju88, or 32 bombs flying the He111 H16, you will need a pretty large target, if you don't want to drop a lot of your bombs outside of it, when using 0.5sec release interval.

[56RAF_Roblex]

4 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

you will need a pretty large target, if you don't want to drop a lot of your bombs outside of it, when using 0.5sec release interval.

 

So don't use 0.5 seconds. Use a smaller gap.  If 0.5 seconds leaves a 50m gap between bombs then it follows that the 0.05s setting leaves a 5m gap.

[AndyJWest]

53 minutes ago, raaaid said:

you can give fast left right yaw input while you drop them

 

Not going to have any significant effect though, unless there is something wrong with the modelling. The bomb's trajectory should depend on the direction the aircraft is moving, rather than the direction it is pointing.

1 hour ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

..

Jump to 3:42 in this video I picked at random and you will see what I mean.

..

 

As the video shows, the He 111 stows internal bombs vertically, nose up, which might make them tumble a little more I suppose. Probably not enough to matter either way.

 

Level bombing from any significant altitude was always an 'area attack' method, despite wild claims about what could be done with Norden bombsights etc. BoX campaign level bombing missions are rather misleading in that the target is represented by individual vehicles, guns etc, which you couldn't expect to individually aim at in reality. 

[E69_geramos109]

Here you can see how there is some dispersion. Is not big but it is there by some metters. Think that a small desviation at altitude would cost a big desviation on the end increasing with the distance. 

 

Is quite effective covering some area in a formation of bombers and in BOX you just make perfect lines with no dispersion so are useles to bomb arfields or depots. 

[E69_geramos109]

Here some test on 1946. 

 

Not very much disperssion but you can work better on a formation with that. 

 

Also i remember there were some bombs called SB would be a nice addition but i dont know if they were on this teatre on significant numbers. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by E69_geramos109

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Ok but before this gets on to a "how much bombs dispersed?" convo. It seems like the OP is asking if he can control that. 

 

The answer is no for side to side and yes for fore and aft.

 

With my engineer hat on and using the tech at the time, you would have to put asymmetric fins on the bombs so they move in the horizontal axis (would result in a spiral). But this would be very random and would completely undermine the whole point of level bombing which was to get as tight a line as possible but from multiple aircraft to achieve saturation.

 

EDIT: after thinking a little bit more. Area bombing could have used more randomness to cover a bigger area with a formation of bombers but going back to the OP, no u cant control it.

 

ONLY CHAOS BABY!!!!!!!!

Edited May 3, 2018 by AeroAce

[Ghost666]

It is quite simple to get the bombs to disperse, just hit the end of the bomb with a hammer. No not the pointed end, the fins is what you want to bend.

[LukeFF]

You guys are expecting way too much from a bomb that barely cracks 100 pounds. 

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

I've had a lot of luck using 50's at low altitude in the A20.  I set with a .25 interval and "eyeball" a long line of targets for a drop.

 

Hit like 30 targets in a line last night on WoL.

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

I don't do level bombing, but I have some experience dropping 50s in the 110 and dive bombing with them in the 88. From my experience, I always drop the 50s in a salvo of two or more at once. It seems the closer they are when they detonate, the more effective the blast/damage radius is, for obvious reasons. I can see how any dispersion from dropping at high altitude would negate the effectiveness or reduce it considerably.

 

The only time I do not drop them in salvo is when I hit tanks in the 88. Then I use the "drop all" option with an interval .25  and 3 second fuse delay from very low level and high speed. This sends them "skipping" down the line of tanks, exploding both on and around the tanks and is pretty effective at destroying multiple vehicles in a single pass. I learned this technique from a video that was made by StG77_HvB some time ago (though I think he took the video since then because I cant find it on his channel anymore).

[Cpt_Cool]

^Roll would probably work better than yaw

[303_Bies]

If we would have AB serie cluster bombs, like in old IL2, it would be easier to destroy columns of vehicles. Maybe some day.

[Royal_Flight]

17 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

I've had a lot of luck using 50's at low altitude in the A20.  I set with a .25 interval and "eyeball" a long line of targets for a drop.

 

Hit like 30 targets in a line last night on WoL.

 

The A-20 doesn’t carry 50s, it’s got up to 20 FAB100s which are pushing 250lbs each. 

Bigger blast radius on them. You almost might be able to get away with a longer delay and cover the whole convoy. 

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

1 hour ago, Royal_Flight said:

 

The A-20 doesn’t carry 50s, it’s got up to 20 FAB100s which are pushing 250lbs each. 

Bigger blast radius on them. You almost might be able to get away with a longer delay and cover the whole convoy. 

Heh.  My bad!