Tank Crew Gameplay

[hames123]

What will it be like? Will it be a series of campaigns, or lots of missions? Or a career mode spanning the Operation? What missions could one expect to see? I suppose you will join a unit, and be assigned to a Zug of Panthers, for example. And then some missions will be your Zug providing fire support as the rest of the company attacks Soviet lines and so on, while others will have you being the speadhead. Will there be infantry? There should be infantry to clear out the trenches and to toss AT grenades onto your tank. 

 

Maybe if your tank gets destroyed you can bail out, upon which all surviving crew members jump out and start running away from any enemy units in sight. That way, your tank getting destroyed is not the end of the career, as you can hide in some bushes as the rest of the tanks finish your mission. And it could make for some pretty desperate scenes. Imagine bailing out into an environment full of bullets and shell splinters, where you will instantly attract the attention of every enemy soldier simply by being a tank crewman and thus a worthwhile target, and then hoping to survive as the enemy starts to fire at you with MGs and rifles.

[Juri_JS]

So far we don't know what kind of single player content we will get in Tank Crew or if the focus will be more on multiplayer.

 

I think we shouldn't expect too much. A problem for tank SP missions will be the very limited vehicle AI. Every AI movement has to be carefully scripted, which will make building interesting tank missions much more complex and time-consuming than creating missions for planes. That's also the reason why I think we won't see any automatically generated missions similar to the BoX career mode.

[MarderIV]

10 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

A problem for tank SP missions will be the very limited vehicle AI

 

If they do end up having a focus on SP for Tank Crew, we might end up getting bonus progress on AI behavior. And it does seem like the devs usually take a direction that benefits their entire product ecosystem whenever they make something new so that gives me hope.

 

With that said this is a pretty interesting area for me, honestly. I can imagine if the devs do attempt and manage to work on ground vehicle AI then some of that progress might even get carried over to other assets across the board. An example might be line of sight, which right now isn't there for vehicles. If something like AI sight-lines, moving vertical and horizontal scanning, multiple spotting agents within a vehicle, and blindspots get modeled in for tanks then I'd assume that kind of work would also add value to plane AI. 

 

GToS models rather intricate vision mechanics that relies on the above: actual physical sight-lines and restrictions that individual ground vehicle AI obey and work with. That's always been one example I've looked up to when it comes to AI considering the granularity of those rules and how the AI takes to those rules, and having that for Tank Crew would be an amazing thing to see first hand. 

 

And in the air, such mechanics might even allow me to sneak up on formations and lose bandits on my six more realistically at the very least. Combat with the plane AI may end up more dynamic than what we have right now. (Or not. Conservative me says if all else stays the same they may as well end up blind as a bat).

 

But whatever they do end up doing though and based on their past work, I really doubt they'd be keen on building a one trick pony. Just fingers crossed things work out fine and we all get to blow things up without having to build missions on our own every time we take to the mud. 

[Voidhunger]

I would expect mostly multiplayer experience with some training sp mission and since im sp guy it would be bad for me. Im also curious about improved dmg model. Dmg model of the tanks cant be so complex, if they want to have player controled planes in the same game. Which is bad for me again. I can live with tank crew being mp only but with detailed penetration and dmg modeling. I was waiting for the new realistic tank sim for years and i dont want tanks what we have now. I dont want player controled planes. I want pure realistic tank sim sp experience with infantry. Thats my dream for years

[-TBC-AeroAce]

8 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

I would expect mostly multiplayer experience with some training sp mission and since im sp guy it would be bad for me. Im also curious about improved dmg model. Dmg model of the tanks cant be so complex, if they want to have player controled planes in the same game. Which is bad for me again. I can live with tank crew being mp only but with detailed penetration and dmg modeling. I was waiting for the new realistic tank sim for years and i dont want tanks what we have now. I dont want player controled planes. I want pure realistic tank sim sp experience with infantry. Thats my dream for years

 

Player planes might make it devolve into just another DF server with more tanks so I understand this worry. 

 

Maybe we could have a very limmited number of player ground attack planes and AI fighters for cover.

[Voidhunger]

1 minute ago, AeroAce said:

 

Player planes might make it devolve into just another DF server with more tanks so I understand this worry. 

 

Maybe we could have a very limmited number of player ground attack planes and AI fighters for cover.

problem is with the dmg model. Right now dmg model for tanks is simplified for 23mm, 37mm etc.

If they make "realistic dmg model" player controlled planes will have difficulty to destroy tanks .

Lets have simplified dmg model for shared enviroment with planes what we have now and realistic dmg model for tank crew without player controlled planes

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

They have to make the ground war much more rewarding for the player as well..

now, you have tanks available on a server, you flank out and destroy the entire opposing tank base but then you’re left with nothing to do...  

Lol, you can’t rtb to leave your tank at base, you just exit and count your score card.

capturing towns, airbases, defending or any advancement... can only really be done from the ground. 

 

Sure thats why why we have the ai and static convoys, “if you don’t destroy them by end of round you lose objective.”..

 

But something to make it necessary for a dedicated few to turn the tide...

 

 

And I feel we need player models for the crews...  especially when out side the hatch.

 

a lot more about player shadows too....

[hames123]

They need infantry. If there are tanks, there must be infantry. The infantry must learn to advance in a charge, or in bounding overwatches by squads. It must learn to defend and take cover. It must learn to use rifles and MGs at long range, and SMGs and pistols at close range. Artillery must be able to switch from indirect and direct fire. Infantry should use AT grenades. Your tanks are there to provide fire support, but it will be the grey clad Landsers that will have to clear out the trench systems with rifles, SMGs and pistols. You can take out the AT guns and MGs, and suppress the defenders, but only the infantry can take the trenches. 

[NETSCAPE]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:46 AM, Juri_JS said:

So far we don't know what kind of single player content we will get in Tank Crew or if the focus will be more on multiplayer.

 

I think we shouldn't expect too much. A problem for tank SP missions will be the very limited vehicle AI. Every AI movement has to be carefully scripted, which will make building interesting tank missions much more complex and time-consuming than creating missions for planes. That's also the reason why I think we won't see any automatically generated missions similar to the BoX career mode.

 

If decent LOS is developed for the AI I don't mind taking the time to script movement and engagements ect... we will see! 

[Thad]

Salute NETSCAPE. The few, the proud, the mission builders. 

[Gambit21]

I'll build a few tank missions when Bodenplatte gets here for sure since I'll already be scripting some tank movements/battles for the P-47 campaign.

An entire tank campaign though I'll leave to someone else.

[Porkins]

On 5/5/2018 at 11:42 AM, hames123 said:

They need infantry. If there are tanks, there must be infantry. The infantry must learn to advance in a charge, or in bounding overwatches by squads. It must learn to defend and take cover. It must learn to use rifles and MGs at long range, and SMGs and pistols at close range. Artillery must be able to switch from indirect and direct fire. Infantry should use AT grenades. Your tanks are there to provide fire support, but it will be the grey clad Landsers that will have to clear out the trench systems with rifles, SMGs and pistols. You can take out the AT guns and MGs, and suppress the defenders, but only the infantry can take the trenches. 

I agree with you, this would be the dream, and I'm probably not interested in the game w/out some decent AI infantry play. 

That being said, I don't know if it's in the cards. Programming AI infantry is (from what I understand) pretty difficult. Also, I don't know if the game engine is built to handle that. What we may be looking at is a more sim like version of War Thunder. Tanks, vehicles, and planes. No infantry other than maybe the current lot who abandon vehicles and run when bombed, for ambiance. Hope I'm wrong!  

[Gambit21]

AI infantry is only possible to the exent that if implemented, you'd complain about how their not good enough.

Do you really expect AI infantry that runs beside your tank, takes cover realistically, engages the enemy etc?

Your dreaming Gordo.

 

 

[Thad]

6 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

AI infantry is only possible to the exent that if implemented, you'd complain about how their not good enough.

Do you really expect AI infantry that runs beside your tank, takes cover realistically, engages the enemy etc?

Your dreaming Gordo.

 

 

Salutations,

 

I would be surprised and actually shocked if we get AI infantry actively performing combat on the upcoming battlefield. Perhaps some abstract infantry presentation of some sort.

 

Yea... it's a dream but not likely to become real. Oh well, I'm going back to sleep, ergo to dream. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Thad

[NETSCAPE]

6 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

AI infantry is only possible to the exent that if implemented, you'd complain about how their not good enough.

Do you really expect AI infantry that runs beside your tank, takes cover realistically, engages the enemy etc?

Your dreaming Gordo.

 

 

 

In a single player game, yes. In the context of multiplayer being the focal point (which is the case with IL2 Tank Crew i think) we can assume not. 

 

Take a look at Graviteam's Tank Sim engine and/or their strat games (same engine). They are a very small team with a small budget and they accomplished this "dream".

 

Honestly I rather have a solid single player experience that actually reflects the role of Tanks and SPG's in combat working with infantry forces, -rather than competitive tank vs tank multiplayer stuff which will inevitably turn into a Sh!t show I'm sure....

[Gambit21]

I'll be happy with static emplacements like we have now with flak guns etc.

What we need in theory, is some rudimentary vehicle AI rather than strictly pathing like we have now - I have to admit I'll be pleasantly surprised if even that is possible with their current resources.

1 minute ago, NETSCAPE said:

 

In a single player game, yes. In the context of multiplayer being the focal point (which is the case with IL2 Tank Crew i think) we can assume not. 

 

Take a look at Graviteam's Tank Sim engine and/or their strat games (same engine). They are a very small team with a small budget and they accomplished this "dream".

 

Honestly I rather have a solid single player experience that actually reflects the role of Tanks and SPG's in combat working with infantry forces, -rather than competitive tank vs tank multiplayer stuff which will inevitably turn into a Sh!t show I'm sure....

 

Yeah I'm thinking SP honestly.

Are you talking about player controlled infantry?

[NETSCAPE]

I am speaking of AI infantry being needed to create a solid tank sim game. As for mentioning Graviteam, yes the infantry are controllable down to squad level. 

[Gambit21]

I think having AI bots move with a tank is plausible - having them behave in a realistic and engaging/immersive manner - not so much.

 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Just now, Gambit21 said:

I think having AI bots move with a tank is plausible - having them behave in a realistic and engaging/immersive manner - not so much.

 

 

They really just need to look at Steel Fury as an example and go from there.

 

Literally... If they ported most of the gameplay features from SF to TC they'd have a stellar tank sim right there.

[InProgress]

I really hope tank kill won't be explosion always. I hate it.. It's in every game now.. killing tank = big boom, hope they make some better damage, setting tank on fire and it would slowly burn or just killing crew and tank would stay like this abandoned etc.

[NETSCAPE]

Just now, InProgress said:

I really hope tank kill won't be explosion always. I hate it.. It's in every game now.. killing tank = big boom, hope they make some better damage, setting tank on fire and it would slowly burn or just killing crew and tank would stay like this abandoned etc.

 

Agreed, and Tulta! 

 

 

[InProgress]

Just now, NETSCAPE said:

 

Agreed, and Tulta!

i want stug 3 so bad

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

2 minutes ago, NETSCAPE said:

 

Agreed, and Tulta! 

 

 

What film is this from?

[NETSCAPE]

1 minute ago, Space_Ghost said:

 

What film is this from?

 

Tali-Ihantala 1944

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

3 minutes ago, NETSCAPE said:

 

Tali-Ihantala 1944

 

Thanks, Net. Now to find an Engrish dub.

[InProgress]

I know infantry is only a dream but this would be so awesome... even just for making videos.

 

Hope for camo stuff like this

 

And this is what i mean, tanks that burn and don't make boom all the time.

[Gambit21]

InProgress....THAT is cool!

I want a pistol when flying so that I can bail out over enemy airbases and cause havoc.

Someone make that happen.

[InProgress]

12 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

InProgress....THAT is cool!

I want a pistol when flying so that I can bail out over enemy airbases and cause havoc.

Someone make that happen.

You don't have to run around every topic and trying to be sarcastic about every wish of other people. Kind of toxic and annoying behaviour. You are not funny or useful in anyway. Also comparing an actual useful mechanics like camo or making game better - more detailed damage with pistol? gr8 b8 m8 *clap*

And like i said about infantry, only a dream.

Edited May 8, 2018 by InProgress

[NETSCAPE]

Graviteam might be rough around the edges graphically speaking, but it produces some grim atmosphere at times... knocked out burning tanks will start exploding due to the ammunition inside, a nice effect... or some random scenario like a tank gets hit in a fuel tank and ejects fire from the hull, the crews bails out on fire meeting a grim fate, meanwhile the weight of the tank slowly propels the clanking beast down a slope leaving a burning trail of fuel behind...

 

The damage model for a decent Tank Sim not only needs correct ballistic and armor data but also needs various tank systems that can be damaged or destroyed. ie turret mechanism, optics, transmission, radio, tracks (and by tracks I mean a tank should be able to lose it's tracks and subsequently "loop" out if in motion) - the list goes on.

 

One thing that I haven't seen brought up yet about Tank Crew is bodies in the tanks. I understand the argument for not having the players pilot 3d model in the cockpit, and I agree. I want to see my instruments while flying. However in a tank sim I am in the opposite camp. It would be a pity to NOT have the crew in the tank. Which leads me to another new thought...blood and gore. I can't imagine a Tank game without the. Ro2 decapitation anyone? 

[InProgress]

2 minutes ago, NETSCAPE said:

Ro2 decapitation anyone? 

 

Yep, it was epic. They said it took them a lot of time and money to do all this... but i loved animations and everything inside a tank. Dead crew, watching loader working or even moving inside tank from one position to another.. that was top work

[Gambit21]

4 minutes ago, InProgress said:

You don't have to run around every topic and trying to be sarcastic about every wish of other people. Kind of toxic and annoying behaviour. You are not funny or useful in anyway. Also comparing an actual useful mechanics like camo or making game better - more detailed damage with pistol? gr8 b8 m8 *clap*

And like i said about infantry, only a dream.

 

Dude - I was being completely serious.

I love the pic with the guys on the tank.

 

Aside from that - I secretly want a pistol so that I can run around and attack AA crews and the like.

Chill out.

[InProgress]

Just now, Gambit21 said:

 

Dude - I was being completely serious.

I love the pic with the guys on the tank.

 

Aside from that - I secretly want a pistol so that I can run around and attack AA crews and the like.

Chill out.

Well, if so then sorry.. that felt like 100% sarcasm, especially with pistol idea that is bashed on every step in this forum.

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, InProgress said:

Well, if so then sorry.. that felt like 100% sarcasm, especially with pistol idea that is bashed on every step in this forum.

 

Oh no - we totally need pistols!

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

5 minutes ago, InProgress said:

Well, if so then sorry.. that felt like 100% sarcasm, especially with pistol idea that is bashed on every step in this forum.

 

Yeah, because it’s pretty dumb.

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, Space_Ghost said:

 

Yeah, because it’s pretty dumb.

 

It's unnecessary for sure - just a silly fantasy of mine.

Anyway the guys riding on the tank option would be fun to have.

 I can use Sherman's like that passing by the player airbase etc well behind the lines, and the same can be done with the German tanks.