HVAR Fuzes

[[TWB]Sauerkraut-]

Anyone know if we will have the option to switch the fuze on HVAR rockets between instant for soft targets for delayed for armored targets?

 

If not, that is something that I would love to see devs :).

 

EDIT: For those of you that are confused, its not anything at all like a bomb fuze delay. There is no noticeable difference in the fuze time. Instead, the "instant" fuze makes the warhead similar to an HE shell, whereas the "delay" fuze makes it more of an AP shell w/ some HE filler. The actual fuze delay is VERY tiny, on the order of hundredths of seconds. Its just enough time for the warhead to penetrate the armor of a vehicle and then explode inside, rather than just exploding on the armor and doing nothing. 

("Instant" fuze = Nose and tail fuzes armed, "Delay" fuze = Only tail fuze armed).

 

EDIT OF THE EDIT: Thus far no one has actually addressed the original content of the post. IS a more detailed fuze system something anyone would like to see implemented?

Edited April 30, 2018 by itsthatguy

[ShamrockOneFive]

Was that a feature that could be used while in-flight? Or are you asking for different options in the modifications screen?

[[TWB]Sauerkraut-]

1 hour ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Was that a feature that could be used while in-flight? Or are you asking for different options in the modifications screen?

 

That was a feature that could be changed in flight.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Interesting.

 

Well, when we gets some HVARs maybe we'll get some interesting fuse features with them. The game hasn't done a deep dive into fuse systems yet.

[JtD]

How would you disable the nose fuse (no delay impact fuse) in flight?

[[TWB]Sauerkraut-]

30 minutes ago, JtD said:

How would you disable the nose fuse (no delay impact fuse) in flight?

 

The fuzes aren't actually "armed" until you fire the rocket. If a pilot had to make an emergency jettison of all stores, they would just hit the ground and do nothing.

[JtD]

The nose fuse is a no delay fuse. If you fire the rocket with the nose fuse (149) installed, it will be a no delay explosion once the rocket hits. The rocket could also be equipped with a tail fuse (159), which was a 0.015s delay fuse. You'd need to remove or disable the nose fuse if you want the rocket to penetrate anything. I know this is possible by not installing the nose fuse in the first place. Due to lack of proper documentation, I don't see how you'd disable an installed nose fuse mid air (or keep it from arming once the rocket is fired), which would be necessary if the rocket could be changed from no delay to delay in flight.

 

So how was it possible?

Edited April 30, 2018 by JtD

[Art-J]

Interesting topic. No idea how these fuses worked, but if there's a dedicated rocket delay & no-delay switch on version D Mustang's instrument panel, I'd guess it was installed there for some reason?

Edited April 30, 2018 by Art-J

[JtD]

As far as I can see, the 149 fuse was only armed when the cap was removed. The cap was held by a safety pin, which had a wire attached. Is it possible that arming the nose fuse on board the aircraft was done by attaching the wire to the plane, and the switch in the cockpit could electrically release that wire upon launch? So wire/pin would either stick with the plane, nose fuse hot, or stick with the rocket, nose fuse dead? I guess I need to find a manual for the rocket rails.

[[TWB]Sauerkraut-]

8 hours ago, JtD said:

The nose fuse is a no delay fuse. If you fire the rocket with the nose fuse (149) installed, it will be a no delay explosion once the rocket hits. The rocket could also be equipped with a tail fuse (159), which was a 0.015s delay fuse. You'd need to remove or disable the nose fuse if you want the rocket to penetrate anything. I know this is possible by not installing the nose fuse in the first place. Due to lack of proper documentation, I don't see how you'd disable an installed nose fuse mid air (or keep it from arming once the rocket is fired), which would be necessary if the rocket could be changed from no delay to delay in flight.

 

So how was it possible?

 

4 hours ago, JtD said:

As far as I can see, the 149 fuse was only armed when the cap was removed. The cap was held by a safety pin, which had a wire attached. Is it possible that arming the nose fuse on board the aircraft was done by attaching the wire to the plane, and the switch in the cockpit could electrically release that wire upon launch? So wire/pin would either stick with the plane, nose fuse hot, or stick with the rocket, nose fuse dead? I guess I need to find a manual for the rocket rails.

 

You guys are overthinking the crap out of this. Ill give you the snips from the DCS P-51D flight manual to show you what I'm talking about:

 

Here is the external stores control panel on the P-51D.

 

That darker area in the center is the rocket panel. The switch on the top right of the darker area allows the pilot to switch between "instant" and "delay" fuze.

 

 

[ZachariasX]

It might actally be that the HVAR had both nose and base fuse installed and you selected the respective fuse with that switch.

[JtD]

No, the instant action nose fuse was switched off or switched on, the delayed action base fuse was always on. There was no way of firing the rockets unarmed for this reason.

 

I just want to know how exactly the nose fuse was armed/disarmed with that cockpit switch.

Edited April 30, 2018 by JtD

[ZachariasX]

I find this:

http://michaelhiske.de/Allierte/USA/OrdnancePamphlets/OP1017/Chapter06/SectionA.htm

 

In Capter 3 it says : „... When the  Fuze Mk 149 is used in combination with base fuzes, it is often launched "safe". In this case the nose cap re-mains in place and prevents the fuze from arming after the rocket is launched.“

 

It seems to be  a system that keeps the saftey pin from being pulled upon launch...

 

 

[[TWB]Sauerkraut-]

42 minutes ago, JtD said:

No, the instant action nose fuse was switched off or switched on, the delayed action base fuse was always on. There was no way of firing the rockets unarmed for this reason.

^^^^

Correct... sort of.

Again, the fuzes weren't "armed" until the rocket was actually launched. This way if there was some sort of accident and the pilot had to jettison his external stores (say, over friendly territory), the rockets wouldn't explode on a bunch of civilian houses or friendly troops. (Same thing goes for bombs).

If a rocket was launched with the switch in "Instant" mode, both nose and tail fuzes were armed (simply for redundancy).

If a rocket was launched with the switch in "Delay" mode, only the tail fuze was armed.

 

So yes, the tail fuze is always activated when the rocket is launched, regardless of the position of that switch.

Edited April 30, 2018 by itsthatguy

[JtD]

You couldn't jettison the HVAR rockets. If you wanted to release them, you'd have to fire them, and this was always done with at least the base fuse active. The fuses would not arm in case the rockets fell off, or if you crash landed your aircraft, but in the latter case you'd still be better off firing them somewhere into the landscape prior to ditching your plane.

 

Zach, thanks for confirming the cap/pin theory!

[[TWB]Sauerkraut-]

21 minutes ago, JtD said:

You couldn't jettison the HVAR rockets. If you wanted to release them, you'd have to fire them, and this was always done with at least the base fuse active.

 

While it is true of WW2 aircraft, it is not a design feature of the rockets. Rather, those aircraft simply lacked the feature.

 

For example, on the F-86F all external stores could be jettisoned all at once by either a single button, or by one of two separate mechanical handles. Additionally, there was a switch on the rocket control panel that made it so that when active, pressing the weapon release button would simply jettison all rockets instead of firing them.

Edited April 30, 2018 by itsthatguy