What Is Up With Gunners?

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Maybe somebody can explain what happened here.

 

Last night I was on Wings of Liberty, patrolling over our submarine.  I spotted a Pe-2 and after flubbing my first pass due to my crappy aiming skills, I made a second pass as the Pe-2 was trying to dive bomb the sub.

 

As I was closing, the gunner's fire was going high and to the left.  I let off a long burst into the Pe-2, and passed underneath as he pulled out of his bombing run; but as I passed underneath I took hits which damaged my engine.

 

As first I thought I had accidentally passed in front of the pe2's frontal guns, because of when the impacts happened.  So after getting back to base and landing, I went and checked the replay.

 

The bottom gunner had been firing at me, but like the top gunner, had been firing too high and to the left.  As I passed under him, his barrel was still pointed more or less straight behind his aircraft, with me well directly below.  Then out of nowhere, two "explosion"-looking flashes and bullet strikes hit my aircraft.  One which appears on the underside of my aircraft, below the cockpit, and the other on the top, at the left wing root.

 

My first thought was that this was perhaps a shot from the submarine; but on watching again, the sub was never firing.  There were no gunners on the Pe-2 pointed anywhere near my aircraft.  The low tail gunner was still looking somewhere behind his aircraft when the strikes occurred; and I was actually in the process of passing the Pe-2 when the impacts happened.

 

What happened?

Edited April 27, 2018 by hrafnkolbrandr

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Maybe ping.

 

Side question.  Did a u boat ever get into the black Sea? 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Network issues are one possibility. In multiplayer, some things can be deceiving. Unfortunately, such things are difficult to replicate.

[KoN_]

Post your track . Some one might spot some thing that you might have missed . But to be honest it's a daily occurrence with multiplayer . Net coding , high ping , ect  , all adds  up .

Don't get me wrong I'm defending multiplayer but strange things happen online .

You just need to except for the time being that this will happen . Happy hunting . 

The Pe2 and it's tail gunners has been a touchy subject for quite some time .  . 

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

At work now, but I will try to post it up tomorrow morning.

[Willy__]

Welcome to the dark side, thats how gunners work.

 

Next.

 

[LukeFF]

49 minutes ago, Willy__ said:

Welcome to the dark side, thats how gunners work.

 

Next.

 

 

Newsflash: the gunners are that way on both sides. 

[-SF-Disarray]

In all likelihood what happened was you got tagged by the belly gunner. When it comes to AI gunners it seems to be the case that all the guns are all controlled by one point of view. This effectively means that the belly gun can be lined up on your plane, or where it will pass by, and get the shot off as soon as you enter it's field of fire even though a person sitting in this gunner's spot wouldn't be able to see you through the plane. It is a little odd at first but once you wrap your head around the fact that AI gunners have what amounts to perfect situational awareness the gunner behavior becomes a lot less puzzling. The best way to counter this AI ability is to figure out the fields of fire for the various gunners and do your best to not attack from those angles. If you do find your self making an attack from these angles make it short and keep your maneuvers erratic. In spite of what people will say the AI gunners aren't the crack shots they are made out to be all of the time. I've had the AI empty every round on the plane in a PE2 trying to kill a single attacker who was doing it right and they didn't take a hit on more than one occasion.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

No, it's pretty clear that the belly gun wasn't pointed anywhere near my aircraft when it happened.  I can see all of the gunner's shots (missing), and then when I am well out of his field of fire, passing the Pe-2, the "explosions" happen.

 

As I said, I will get the track up tomorrow morning.  I think lag is probably the culprit, but it's hard to say because the belly gun doesn't really move through the whole thing.  I would at least expect it to "teleport" to the new firing position once it caught up.

Edited April 28, 2018 by hrafnkolbrandr

[Yakdriver]

you rely on the visual angle ofg the gunners gun.

like
"he is not aiming at me... i can attackl"
"he did not aim at me... how can this happen"

all i can sey is that this is a silly way of thinking.
This is not some sniper game either, you know...

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

You rely on the visual angle of the pilot's plane.  That is a silly way of thinking.  ?

 

I only saw the angle of the gun afterwards when I watched the replay.  In the moment I was more interested in saving our sub (playing the objective).  I didn't really watch or even see the angle of any gunners.  Just wondered how he hit me after I had apparently passed him.

Edited April 28, 2018 by hrafnkolbrandr

[evarno]

Sounds like a ping issue
I have had my plane fall apart minutes after being 'hit' by a gunner

[9./JG27golani79]

11 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Side question.  Did a u boat ever get into the black Sea? 

 

Yes - 30th U-Boat Flotilla operated in the black sea.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_U-boat_Flotilla

[ITAF_Cymao]

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Newsflash: the gunners are that way on both sides. 

 

 

 

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, ITAF_Cymao said:

 

 

 

 

Go ahead and laugh all you want, but there is no separate "German gunner AI" and "Soviet Gunner AI." Once you guys start accepting that, maybe things will change.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

8 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Go ahead and laugh all you want, but there is no separate "German gunner AI" and "Soviet Gunner AI." Once you guys start accepting that, maybe things will change.

 

 

They only benefit from this comical victim complex and so have no incentive to change.

[303_Bies]

 

[216th_Jordan]

What you describe is a network/server  issue. Sometimes the setver will lose you position tracking, so it will jast takr the last point known to it and 'keep' your plane there. All AA and gunners will fire at that stationary point and as it is stationary, have a high hitrate. 

 

I've been blown to pieces by AA due to this while executing wild manouvers..I could have just taxied in with the same result..

[Frenchy56]

23 hours ago, 9./JG27golani79 said:

 

Yes - 30th U-Boat Flotilla operated in the black sea.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_U-boat_Flotilla

They used Type II's that were transported by train to Romania.

[ITAF_Cymao]

17 hours ago, LukeFF said:

maybe things will change

 

Nobody said to change anything, but I'm glad to read that you too think there's something to change!

Basically you are saying that the complaints are right but if we don't complain, maybe things will change!

Why then don't you say clearly that there are changes to be made?

 

S!

 

[BubiHUN]

I was flying a 111 few days ago. I was bounced by several red fighters. My gunners shot MORE than 3000 bullets, and none of them hit the enemy. None. 

[-SF-Disarray]

8 hours ago, bies said:

 

 

Your first video, aside from having awful music (:P), shows the kind of information sharing the gunners use; you can see the same thing any other multi-gun plane. Aside from that it is a good demonstration of cherry picking data to make your 'point.' I guess you could also use it as a demonstration of why it is better to shoot planes with .50 guns rather than .30's. Your second video is, believe it or not, representative of the AI's gunnery in my experience. They shot all those bullets at you and only 4 hit? Snipers indeed. I'll grant that you got a bit unlucky when the 4th and final bullet found its way into your 20 mm ammo magazine, or maybe fuel tank I guess, and blew your plane to bits, but that's how it goes getting shot at sometimes. Ultimately none of your videos show anything spectacular or exemplary about the PE 2 gunners themselves, just that the AI gunners do odd and sometimes improbable things in game. No need to go all German persecution complex on everyone.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

5 hours ago, -[HRAF]BubiHUN said:

I was flying a 111 few days ago. I was bounced by several red fighters. My gunners shot MORE than 3000 bullets, and none of them hit the enemy. None. 

 

Those red pilots were just better than the blue pilots. ?

 

Anyhow, it sounds like it is the issue that Jordan is mentioning, lag/connectivity, and that perhaps my aircraft didn't register the hits until a bit late.  Oh well.  I got the kill, and it didn't end with the bf109 headshot that usually happens.  Thanks for the input, fellas.

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by hrafnkolbrandr

[LukeFF]

11 hours ago, ITAF_Cymao said:

Basically you are saying that the complaints are right but if we don't complain, maybe things will change!

 

Umm, no. I was addressing the persistence in some here to continually imply it's Russian bias, Soviet stronk AI, stalinwood, etc., etc. That is what I want to see change first so that yes, we can have a mature discussion about what needs to change with gunner AI.

[KoN_]

15 hours ago, bies said:

 

fake nothing to see here move along ? ? . 

[Aap]

10 hours ago, -[HRAF]BubiHUN said:

I was flying a 111 few days ago. I was bounced by several red fighters. My gunners shot MORE than 3000 bullets, and none of them hit the enemy. None. 

 

Were you shot down? 

Just in case that somebody does not know, there is a bug in stats that counts all of your ammo spent, when you get shot down. That is 3056 rounds for He111H6 and 3447 rounds for He111H16.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

As I understood it, gunner AI was set by the mission makers, and could be set by plane type.  I may be misremembering though.

[ATA_Vasilij]

I would like to say this.

This game has such "shortcuts " "Bugs" or "code based errors" ..... whatever you call it, which you can use for each time to get the same results.

 

Nr.1 : If you attack on any bomber with rear or side gunners, Doesnt matter on your speed, or angles you are attacking, IF you continue in dive and go UNDER the plane. You will catch some critical damage and hits.

To avoid this bug you must always once you shooted on them, pull up and pass the bomber on its upper hemisfere.(you fly above him) to avoid heavy hits.

 

Nr.2 : If you fight with AI fighters, it is enough to fly just above the ground and make a sharp turn and enemy AI will hit the ground. More higher the plane is above you and more speed it has, more sooner the ground hit will happen. I erased dozens of enemies AI with this method, and it never failed.

 

More points next time...