3.002 Vive performance

[TWHYata_PL]

Guys, anyone note worst FPS  (the same scenario, map, plane) in 3.002 in HTC Vive  ? At ver 3.001 I had better resoluts , difference is around 6~8 FPS in Kuban carrier mode. I didn't touch settings , drivers and so on.

Edited April 21, 2018 by TWHYata_PL

[coconut]

I have a Rift. On Low settings I have received an improvement in performance in the quick mission generator. Now getting 90 FPS at low altitude.

I don't know if it's different at higher settings or in heavier missions.

Edited April 21, 2018 by coconut

[Wolf8312]

1 hour ago, TWHYata_PL said:

Guys, anyone note worst FPS  (the same scenario, map, plane) in 3.002 in HTC Vive  ? At ver 3.001 I had better resoluts , difference is around 6~8 FPS in Kuban carrier mode. I didn't touch settings , drivers and so on.

 

Yes I'm getting steam background flashes near the airports I think when flares are released. Horrible fps drops although performance is still basically great and actually better than it was (at least it feels like that in combat) and so I'm pretty sure it's not my PC. So yeah not bad fps per say, but bad random fps drops.

 

I wonder if it's the steam VR recent update rather than the game, but these drops occur every time when a flare is released on take off, though not always and for every flare in the game.  This also doesn't happen in the scripted campaigns, and no amount of graphical tweaking can fix it.

 

The steam VR background/base-station flash is really for me the biggest reason why the rift is the better headset, though for me they were a very rare occurrence in BOS since getting my new rig, until a few days ago.

 

That said it did happen right after the second update, and so I do think perhaps its something with the game, though why everyone is not experiencing the same thing I don't know , so many variables of course. I've taken a ticket with steam support, though very unlikely they can help me. I've already done everything they are bound to suggest.

Its a shame that we cant have an option to roll back updates as god knows how long it will be till the next one, and talk about a voice crying in the wilderness!

Edited April 21, 2018 by Wolf8312

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Are those twitchy Framedrops? Because these appeared on the Oculus and other VR games after 30 minutes playing as well recently.

 

I had them too they twitched the picture for a split second, every 2-5 minutes. Long story short, responsible was the Fall Creators upgrade for Win10, not IL-2. Since I went back to Win10 AU 1607 (formated SSD, downloaded updates, disabled FC upgrade forcefully), and Nvidia 378.78 (blocked warnings about outdated driver) I got an estimated +15fps and no more twitches.

 

This weird Bass-Junkie guy brought me to the idea

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1025593/geforce-drivers/scripted-fix-for-stuttering-with-fps-drop-post-win-10-creators-update-now-with-re-enable-script-by-/5/

The Script Fix mentioned in the beginning of the thread didn't work by the way.

[Wolf8312]

No dont think thats it because there were no changes to my PC only steam VR and the second BOS updates. Other VR games are not affected and neither is BOS itself it seems performance wise, unless at the beginning of campaign missions (flares) or at very specific times but only in campaign missions. It has nothing to do with graphics settings, low or high settings makes no difference, but it is a Vive problem (rift doesent flash during FPS drops) and probably not a rift problem. Will look into your suggestions though.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Okay, hope you find what's wrong. The Rift doesn't flash SteamVR's grey in a framedrop, but tilts graphics for a split second instead. If you have a secondary drive, and if you want to test this, it's best you try the Win10 1067 there first and test the effect, so you won't have to format your primary and start all over. That way it's no giant step and can be done in an hour (with a good internet connection). You probably know all this already though Good luck

Edited April 23, 2018 by Fenris_Wolf

[Wolf8312]

Was windows updated very recently? If this only started happening a few days ago it’s probably not a windows problem right?

[HunDread]

The latest update to my Win 10 Home happened on April 12. Based on the description these were for v1709 so probably 1709 was installed sometime before as far as I can tell.

[Wolf8312]

17 hours ago, Fenris_Wolf said:

Okay, hope you find what's wrong. The Rift doesn't flash SteamVR's grey in a framedrop, but tilts graphics for a split second instead. If you have a secondary drive, and if you want to test this, it's best you try the Win10 1067 there first and test the effect, so you won't have to format your primary and start all over. That way it's no giant step and can be done in an hour (with a good internet connection). You probably know all this already though Good luck

I know what you are talking about and am very good grateful for your help, but can you tell me, or link me to an explanation to how I install a new version of windows on another drive? And from where can I get 1067?

 

Also is it not possible that the fix was not so much because of installing the old version of windows but just because of a fresh install?

 

Time and again I have found windows updates messing things like this up with the only solution being to start again!..

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It's definitely 1709 with its updates, it's not IL 2. I freshly installed 1709 as well, before then going to 1607. I installed with a Win 10 Pro 1607 ISO, with a USB stick created through program Rufus, and the genuine 10pro key. 

After installation I let windows update search updates, and immediately pulled cable once it showed the updates list before it could install any. Had the applicable wuaushowhide.diag ready, and then went on to hide the 1709 update, as well as the Nvidia driver downloads. Then I killed the windows update process manually, then deleted all its downloaded files, then restarted the PC. The process is in detail in that thread I linked to before, with links to the ISO and Freeware program, it's all legal. If youre interested I can also reassemble it in a cooking recipe, but it'll have to wait a bit, I'm home at 8pm again. 

 

Now I have Win10 Pro 1067 with all security updates downloaded and future ones downloading as well. I also use nvidia 378.78 drivers now, they give best performance for IL 2 VR. I tried half a dozen. 

 

There is no flicker with random hard framedrops anymore, tested on TAW and even Berloga.

 

Again, it's not IL 2. The reasoning is, as obvious, it can be eliminated by OS change and it appears in certain other VR apps such as (prominently) Fallout4 and DCS in firm of hick-ups as well. 

It's the quickest fix there is to it, or rather afaik, the only fix. 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Fenris_Wolf

[Wolf8312]

7 hours ago, Fenris_Wolf said:

It's definitely 1709 with its updates, it's not IL 2. I freshly installed 1709 as well, before then going to 1607. I installed with a Win 10 Pro 1607 ISO, with a USB stick created through program Rufus, and the genuine 10pro key. 

After installation I let windows update search updates, and immediately pulled cable once it showed the updates list before it could install any. Had the applicable wuaushowhide.diag ready, and then went on to hide the 1709 update, as well as the Nvidia driver downloads. Then I killed the windows update process manually, then deleted all its downloaded files, then restarted the PC. The process is in detail in that thread I linked to before, with links to the ISO and Freeware program, it's all legal. If youre interested I can also reassemble it in a cooking recipe, but it'll have to wait a bit, I'm home at 8pm again. 

 

Now I have Win10 Pro 1067 with all security updates downloaded and future ones downloading as well. I also use nvidia 378.78 drivers now, they give best performance for IL 2 VR. I tried half a dozen. 

 

There is no flicker with random hard framedrops anymore, tested on TAW and even Berloga.

 

Again, it's not IL 2. The reasoning is, as obvious, it can be eliminated by OS change and it appears in certain other VR apps such as (prominently) Fallout4 and DCS in firm of hick-ups as well. 

It's the quickest fix there is to it, or rather afaik, the only fix. 

 

Main thing I am not sure about is how to install windows on a separate drive to my main windows installation. I assume this is done when I flash windows with USB in the BIOS and just select it (under boot options)?

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yeah, you need a clean drive, then create a bootable usb stick with Win10 Pro iso from this page http://windowsiso.net/windows-10-iso/windows-10-anniversary-update-1607-download-build-14393-0/windows-10-anniversary-update-1607-iso-download-standard/ using the software Rufus, probably change your boot order in bios to the stick first, then during installation select the free drive.

 

After installation you can select the partition to boot from, which will be from that drive you used for your gaming windows installation. The other one can remain for work, for example.

[Wolf8312]

53 minutes ago, Fenris_Wolf said:

Yeah, you need a clean drive, then create a bootable usb stick with Win10 Pro iso from this page http://windowsiso.net/windows-10-iso/windows-10-anniversary-update-1607-download-build-14393-0/windows-10-anniversary-update-1607-iso-download-standard/ using the software Rufus, probably change your boot order in bios to the stick first, then during installation select the free drive.

 

After installation you can select the partition to boot from, which will be from that drive you used for your gaming windows installation. The other one can remain for work, for example.

 

 

The thing is if the 1709 was the problem how come I haven't been having this same problem for ages? And everyone here isn't using 1607 or having problems with 1709 right?

 

This problem started after the BOS second update rather than any windows update, after which a few VIVE updates were indeed implemented (black bar removal) and I think could maybe be causing problems now. True they might not be affecting everyone, but to be honest the black bar issue wasn't affecting me either. I would hate for this issue to fly under the radar with the developers due to us barking up the wrong tree.

 

For some reason those iso's wont download as well now! Grrrr....

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

That may very well be true.

 

There may be a multitude of reasons involved in your issue. This one is global, and affects VR for everyone on that configuration as well. Applied it to 2 PCs by now, one of my buddy's, it fixed both.

 

In best case for you, you had not seen this problem before, and that this is your issue as well - and could fix your problem. But since it only appeared after 3.002, it may be something different in your case. It may also just be the result of the deletion of this performance fix (black bars were there to increase your performance), and the frames hitting a critically low treshhold, hence dropping some, and giving you the grey flashes.

 

Only trying this or that can solve your issue. I'd start with lowering quality to minimum and seeing if it starts running more fluid. And then work through several ideas. Good luck..

Edited April 24, 2018 by Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

17 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

 

The thing is if the 1709 was the problem how come I haven't been having this same problem for ages? And everyone here isn't using 1607 or having problems with 1709 right?

 

 

No problem on my end with 1709...

[Wolf8312]

Yeah I'm convinced it was the latest update that made some changes to the VIVE, other games in VR are working fine. Gutted as its the main reason I bought my new rig though can at least console myself that the problem would have been much worse if I was still using my old computer. It's just not something you expect on a rig like mine built specifically for this purpose!

Just got a feeling I'm going to have to wait a while for a fix, will probably just stick to scripted campaigns for now but gutted as I was really getting into the campaign. To be honest I'm insane really as it's not that big a deal really.

 

People all around the world dying in wars and starving  to death and my VIVE is flashing very occasionally... 

 

[ironk79]

10 minutes ago, Wolf8312 said:

Yeah I'm convinced it was the latest update that made some changes to the VIVE, other games in VR are working fine. Gutted as its the main reason I bought my new rig though can at least console myself that the problem would have been much worse if I was still using my old computer. It's just not something you expect on a rig like mine built specifically for this purpose!

Just got a feeling I'm going to have to wait a while for a fix, will probably just stick to scripted campaigns for now but gutted as I was really getting into the campaign. To be honest I'm insane really as it's not that big a deal really.

 

People all around the world dying in wars and starving  to death and my VIVE is flashing very occasionally... 

 

Dont be to hard on yourself, one can feel your disappointment. i myself was playing with the idea to get myself a purpose build "il2 VR machine", since il2 VR is the only thing i am playing at the moment, consitently for weeks now. not looking forward to other releases (maybe i am to old, already played everything) but the investment for it is to big nowadays.

So seeing your top notch machine, not delivering 100% what it was build for is of cause a bummer. You would be a fool (with to much money) to not be bothered about it.

[Wolf8312]

Thing is it's not a random fps drop, I think basically I can set my watch by it, it happens on the ground or in the air about 5-7 seconds after the game loads up, and seems to be caused by some asset or other being loaded in perhaps. It's more like a bug I think...

[Wolf8312]

This is a CPU and GPU score, and the game still flashes. So I think this proves its not my PC performing badly. Frame rates also drop suddenly outside of VR from about 150 on ground to around 125.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Wolf8312

[Wraithzlt]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:41 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Are those twitchy Framedrops? Because these appeared on the Oculus and other VR games after 30 minutes playing as well recently.

 

I had them too they twitched the picture for a split second, every 2-5 minutes. Long story short, responsible was the Fall Creators upgrade for Win10, not IL-2. Since I went back to Win10 AU 1607 (formated SSD, downloaded updates, disabled FC upgrade forcefully), and Nvidia 378.78 (blocked warnings about outdated driver) I got an estimated +15fps and no more twitches.

 

This weird Bass-Junkie guy brought me to the idea

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1025593/geforce-drivers/scripted-fix-for-stuttering-with-fps-drop-post-win-10-creators-update-now-with-re-enable-script-by-/5/

The Script Fix mentioned in the beginning of the thread didn't work by the way.

 

Wow thanks for this info!

I have just completed the re-install to 1607 and NVidia Driver 378.78. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Way smoother with no stutter for me now!

I was still getting stutter after 1607 but only because Win10 kept installing the NVidia 388 driver straight after I installed the 378.78!   After telling Win10 to rollback the NVidia driver to 378 did it stick properly...then the SMOOTHNESS happened!!

This has allowed me to run Balanced setting instead of Low. Low stuttered with 1709 and a newer than 378 driver even though I was pushing 90fps!

 

So to recap-  Windows 10 1609 and nvidia 378.78 is way smoother!

 

Thanks again Fenris!

[ironk79]

is the nvidia 378.78 driver also "recommended" for win7 users?

Edited April 26, 2018 by ironk79

[Wraithzlt]

15 minutes ago, ironk79 said:

is the nvidia 378.78 driver also "recommended" for win7 users?

 

 

I wouldn't know with Win7 TBH. You could try it and see?

[ironk79]

1 hour ago, Wraithzlt said:

 

 

I wouldn't know with Win7 TBH. You could try it and see?

will try as soon as i have my Rift back from support. can take 3 weeks

Edited April 26, 2018 by ironk79

[HunDread]

3 hours ago, Wraithzlt said:

 

Wow thanks for this info!

I have just completed the re-install to 1607 and NVidia Driver 378.78. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Way smoother with no stutter for me now!

I was still getting stutter after 1607 but only because Win10 kept installing the NVidia 388 driver straight after I installed the 378.78!   After telling Win10 to rollback the NVidia driver to 378 did it stick properly...then the SMOOTHNESS happened!!

This has allowed me to run Balanced setting instead of Low. Low stuttered with 1709 and a newer than 378 driver even though I was pushing 90fps!

 

So to recap-  Windows 10 1609 and nvidia 378.78 is way smoother!

 

Thanks again Fenris!

 

How is this performing when you dip below 90 fps?

 

I never really had issues when on 90 FPS but as soon as it drops as little as to 85 I immediately suffer from stuttering (ASW is turned off)

 

Thanks 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Jerkiness in translational movements when not in sync with 90fps or 45fps is unfortunately a separate thing and related to the positional updates instead of performance. Fortunately it appears considerably less, if you keep 90fps most of the time. I recommend lefuneste's migoto mod to disable the prop disk creating artifacts - then you can keep 90fps+asw active. As a bonus, it comes with optional higher zooms and optional higher color saturation.

 

I'm happy the rollback to 1607 and 378.78 helped a few people, and my thanks especially to Wraithzlt for the positive feedback on forums. 

 

I wrote up a cooking recipe for anyone seeking directions in how to roll back (and stall 1709 for however long you want, as well as 378.78) in the spoiler in my sticky thread here :

 

It's a shotgun method, but it works. Simply cleaning background tasks and services in a fresh 1709 doesn't suffice - unfortunately. I would have preferred that. 

 

Enjoy VR and keep spreading its virus!

Best regards 

Fenriswolf 

[Wraithzlt]

On 26/04/2018 at 11:21 PM, -[HRAF]Black_Sab said:

 

How is this performing when you dip below 90 fps?

 

I never really had issues when on 90 FPS but as soon as it drops as little as to 85 I immediately suffer from stuttering (ASW is turned off)

 

Thanks 

I'm using a Vive with async reproduction.

My frames haven't been holding 90 in kuban very well but with the 1607 & 378 I have noticed its alot smoother (less stuttery) when I drop even down near 60fps. 

The major improvement I noticed right away was when at a solid 90fps in a knife fight the enemy plane wasn't jittering around and the the General micro stutters had noticibly reduced. (This 90fps jitter and stutter had me running pretty much the lowest settings possible with 1.6SS and no AA and I still wasn't happy) 

 

In general I wasn't happy with performance and graphics since il2 v3.0x but this "fix" has helped heaps!

[SCG_motoadve]

I have bad performance since last update, I am re installing IL2.

If that doesn't work then will try Nvidia drivers, and if that doesn't work I will leave it that way, the windows re install its too much work.

And who knows if the next Windows update ruins it again, then another re install?

[SCG_motoadve]

New install did not help

Sttuters specially with radio messages.

And Il2 is installed in an M.2 drive so now no idea why this happens.

[Wolf8312]

2 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

New install did not help

Sttuters specially with radio messages.

And Il2 is installed in an M.2 drive so now no idea why this happens.

 

I've tried everything nothing works fresh installation of windows etc. That windows 1609 fix isnt going to work because I have benchmarked my PC and recieved very good scores using a few diffrent tools. Other games also work great in and out of VR, and so my PC is not performing badly. It was the second so called hotfix or the second patch that did it for me, before that everything was fine.

[dburne]

47 minutes ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

I've tried everything nothing works fresh installation of windows etc. That windows 1609 fix isnt going to work because I have benchmarked my PC and recieved very good scores using a few diffrent tools. Other games also work great in and out of VR, and so my PC is not performing badly. It was the second so called hotfix or the second patch that did it for me, before that everything was fine.

 

Yes my performance has suffered some also.

[Wolf8312]

19 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Yes my performance has suffered some also.

Well you're lucky being on a rift as at least you dont get those awful flashes. Every time I load up on the airport and a flare is released I lose like 20-30 frames in a flash. But it happens at other times too...

 

Good that people are reporting it though, because now I feel more confident about a fix, and less worried that it was just me (which always means computer problems which would be inexplicable in my case). 

 

The actual gameplay seems smooth to be honest but the overall stability is more erratic, some asset or other is lagging the game at times...

Edited April 30, 2018 by Wolf8312

[SCG_motoadve]

Guys post it in the technical issues forum, we need the developers to see this.

Now the VR experience is not as fun anymore with all the sttuters /pauses and reduced performance.

 

I know the team said no more improvements for VR, but at least dont break something that was working.

[=37.Sqn=Mjugen]

Hello,

 

Can you please explain "I know the team said no more improvements for VR", what is this about ?

 

Thank you !

Edited April 30, 2018 by =37.Sqn=Mjugen

[SCG_motoadve]

It was posted by Jason

[Wolf8312]

12 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Guys post it in the technical issues forum, we need the developers to see this.

Now the VR experience is not as fun anymore with all the sttuters /pauses and reduced performance.

 

I know the team said no more improvements for VR, but at least dont break something that was working.

 

Yes I know pretty much back to DCS for me until it's fixed. I dont think that quote by Jason is applicable in this case as its obviously just a bug or something. And besides that post was made a while back about a whole different game, though I do share your misgivings.

 

But I fear it could be a long wait. I posted in bugs and issues too, no response. I have also sent a direct message to the company itself no response so far, and it has been a while. 

 

Sometimes I think its best not to push too hard with a problem on these forums if you know what I mean!

 

 

[dburne]

I am beginning to wonder if somehow these performance issues might be related to Steam VR and the way it handles things now.

Wasn't it updated and changed fairly recently?

I know I took a look in the Steam VR settings recently and really could not tell how the heck it handles SS, even when it supposedly is not selected in it.

 

BoX is the only VR game I have that has to go through Steam VR, all others support the Rift natively. And it was just here very recently my VR performance took a hit in BoX. Seems like I am seeing more shimmering of the terrain now also in addition to the performance hit.

Edited May 1, 2018 by dburne

[=37.Sqn=Mjugen]

Just for information, X-plane 11 was through Steam VR at first, but then they decide to go native with Oculus route also, the gain was very visible in “fluidity” of the game. Very good move on developer side I must say.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, =37.Sqn=Mjugen said:

Just for information, X-plane 11 was through Steam VR at first, but then they decide to go native with Oculus route also, the gain was very visible in “fluidity” of the game. Very good move on developer side I must say.

 

I so hope one day 1CGS can do the same. 

[Wolf8312]

14 hours ago, dburne said:

I am beginning to wonder if somehow these performance issues might be related to Steam VR and the way it handles things now.

Wasn't it updated and changed fairly recently?

I know I took a look in the Steam VR settings recently and really could not tell how the heck it handles SS, even when it supposedly is not selected in it.

 

BoX is the only VR game I have that has to go through Steam VR, all others support the Rift natively. And it was just here very recently my VR performance took a hit in BoX. Seems like I am seeing more shimmering of the terrain now also in addition to the performance hit.

 

Unlikely as I run all VR games (Such as DCS) through steam VR and they dont have the same problems or at least no more than ussual since steam VR was updated. It was after the second BOS update that things seemed to start flashing. I also turned SS off with the same result, it is not affected by graphics settings even when everything is set to low, but is some asset or other that seems to be causing big drops.

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

Unlikely as I run all VR games (Such as DCS) through steam VR and they dont have the same problems or at least no more than ussual since steam VR was updated. It was after the second BOS update that things seemed to start flashing. I also turned SS off with the same result, it is not affected by graphics settings even when everything is set to low, but is some asset or other that seems to be causing big drops.

 

 

Ok good to know it at least rules Steam VR out regarding the issue.

Hoping the devs can take a look at this and get it corrected.