Recommend a book about the invasion of Russia

[Wolf8312]

Audible would be nice but kindle no problem.

 

I have all kinds of books about the war in Russia. Stalingrad a couple, Kursk, and minsk etc, not so many on moscow though really.

 

What I would really like to read however is a book that covers basically the whole thing in as much detail as possible without it being too much of an overview. Details of the airwar would be nice as well obviously. If not the whole war, then up to the disaster at the gates of moscow, and how it all came crumbling down! I've read overviews of course but I'd like a little more depth, and perhaps a more contemporary perspective.

 

I'm seriously mulling this one- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Moscow-David-Stahel-ebook/dp/B00Q8TWV04/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1524076983&sr=1-1&keywords=battle+of+moscow

Edited April 18, 2018 by Wolf8312

[InProgress]

I have book about Stalingrad, it has 800 pages, also book about  ww1, 1914 year only, almost 1000 pages. There is no way to cover entire war in one book, sorry mate, if you want detailed and good book about ostfront, you must buy bunch of them and combine. Maybe there can be something about ostfront but it wont be detailed, just fast history lesson about most important stuff

[Wolf8312]

Yeah thanks will probably go with David Stahel, he seems to be working his way through the russian campaign having wrote typhoon and then moscow (perhaps others too I think). Will probably end up picking up both. Not sure how well recieved those books have been but from looking at the preview like what I see so far.

[Mastermariner]

https://www.amazon.ca/Road-Stalingrad-John-Erickson/dp/0304365416/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524116517&sr=8-1&keywords=the+road+to+stalingrad

 

and then  ' the Road to Berlin' 

[Feathered_IV]

Beevor's Stalingrad is very good for an overview of the events leading up to late 42, with the rest in detail.  Braithwaite's Moscow 1941 is well worth it too.  I'm reading that now and finding it very useful.  I never realised that more Russians gave their lives in the defence of Moscow than all the US and British forces in Europe combined. 

 

PS: Both of these should be available as audio

Edited April 20, 2018 by Feathered_IV

[SCG_OpticFlow]

Victor Suvorov's books. Start with the Icebreaker.

[Wolf8312]

On 19/04/2018 at 6:40 PM, Feathered_IV said:

Beevor's Stalingrad is very good for an overview of the events leading up to late 42, with the rest in detail.  Braithwaite's Moscow 1941 is well worth it too.  I'm reading that now and finding it very useful.  I never realised that more Russians gave their lives in the defence of Moscow than all the US and British forces in Europe combined. 

 

PS: Both of these should be available as audio

 

I think I have that one feathered but thanks for the suggestion. Braithwaite I will have to look into. Yeah the amount of russians killed in the war is staggering to the extent that it's not even possible to comprehend...

[Mastermariner]

You will have to take Bevor's 'history' with a big pinch of salt; hes got an obvious agenda

 

Master  

[InProgress]

44 minutes ago, Mastermariner said:

You will have to take Bevor's 'history' with a big pinch of salt; hes got an obvious agenda

 

Master  

What's wrong with his books?

[Sokol1]

Despite the author past (member of Nazi part) and style (try justify German Army as non politic professionals) I like of Scorched Earth by Paul Carrel, but this is not about "the invasion of Union Soviet" but the "run up" of Germans from Union Soviet (cover 43-44 battles).

 

Maybe their  Hittler Moves East 1941-1942 worth read.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Sokol1

[Feathered_IV]

1 hour ago, Mastermariner said:

You will have to take Bevor's 'history' with a big pinch of salt; hes got an obvious agenda

 

Master  

 

I notice the Russian, German and even Canadian readers think Beevor is biased towards the other side, so I reckon he's pretty balanced.

[rolikiraly]

3 hours ago, InProgress said:

What's wrong with his books?

 

I guess he is not a blind Stalin/communism fan? 

[LukeFF]

On 4/19/2018 at 2:38 PM, OpticFlow said:

Victor Suvorov's books.

 

Sure, if one wants a distorted view of reality.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Black Cross, Red Star

[InProgress]

I see there is a lot of hate on books where someone says something good about germans... really what the hell? I got book about Hitler's driver and he often said that Hitler was "cool guy", nice, always cared about his people. And reviews bashed this book for this, like really, just because someone said something good about him then it's trash? Maybe he was a bad guy who started a war, but does not mean he could not be good boss and nice guy for people around him.

 

I like Beevor Stalingrad. I don't see how it's biased or anything. Really cool book. Has lots of positive reviews and score, like his other books, I have no idea what you people cry about.

[Wolf8312]

1 hour ago, InProgress said:

I see there is a lot of hate on books where someone says something good about germans... really what the hell? I got book about Hitler's driver and he often said that Hitler was "cool guy", nice, always cared about his people. And reviews bashed this book for this, like really, just because someone said something good about him then it's trash? Maybe he was a bad guy who started a war, but does not mean he could not be good boss and nice guy for people around him.

 

Agreed. Its why I don't like Ian Kershaw's books, they are so preoccupied with demonizing Hitler that when compared with books written by people who actually knew him (Speer, Traudl Junge etc)  you begin to feel as if the impression being painted is inaccurate. Of course don't take that to mean I some sort of Hitler worshiper, just that I think books and biographies like that should retain some objectivity, and not insist on seeing only evil in absolutely everything the man ever did. It's rather like the caricature Hitler in 'Hitler the rise of evil' and just silly. The interesting thing about Hitler was how moral and caring he seemed to those around him.

 

I ended up going with Battle of Moscow by Stahel, started reading it, and although there's a long way to go, it seemed exactly what I was looking for when I made this post.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Wolf8312

[SCG_OpticFlow]

11 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Sure, if one wants a distorted view of reality.

 

Have you read them?

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, OpticFlow said:

Have you read them?

 

I've read enough reviews of his writings by actual intelligent, reputable historians that I would never waste my time reading what he's written. 

[InProgress]

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

I've read enough reviews of his writings by actual intelligent, reputable historians that I would never waste my time reading what he's written. 

I never read any of his books, tho i think i want to try. From what i heard it's not like he is making up history, it's more like he creates hypotheses that could be true but there is no real proof for it. He just provides readers with facts that could lead to proving that hypothesis. It's more like a "did americans knew about pearl harbor to join war?" While it's a theory with no proof, he tries to prove it. Like books about string theory, just because there is no prove about it does not mean entire book and this idea is delusional.

 

At least that how I understand it, but again I never read his books.

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

I've read his books. And then I've read books of those who criticize his works. My conclusion after this is simply that his works should be labeled as sci-fi or fantasy rather than historical or political research.

 

 

[SCG_OpticFlow]

6 hours ago, InProgress said:

I never read any of his books, tho i think i want to try. From what i heard it's not like he is making up history, it's more like he creates hypotheses that could be true but there is no real proof for it. He just provides readers with facts that could lead to proving that hypothesis. It's more like a "did americans knew about pearl harbor to join war?" While it's a theory with no proof, he tries to prove it. Like books about string theory, just because there is no prove about it does not mean entire book and this idea is delusional.

 

At least that how I understand it, but again I never read his books.

 

Yes, best to read from the source and form your own opinion. His thesis is one of the most controversial in all history. It is possible that he's wrong but I've not met a convincing proof for it, yet. I've met very hostile reactions when I mention him, from people who admitted to never have read his books...

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, OpticFlow said:

I've not met a convincing proof for it, yet.

 

Because you haven't looked hard enough. 

 

And, on that note, since you apparently believe what he has to say, how exactly was the USSR ready to invade Germany in 1941?

[InProgress]

9 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Because you haven't looked hard enough. 

 

And, on that note, since you apparently believe what he has to say, how exactly was the USSR ready to invade Germany in 1941?

They already tried to invade europe in 1920, even if not in 1941 I am pretty sure they would try again and there is no doubt about it. Soviets were aggressors, attack on Finland, Poland, killing millions that wanted independence, all other Baltic states. They would attack sooner or later, even if there is no proof, it's logical.

 

7 hours ago, TimJ147 said:

Currently reading The Forgotten Soldier .The book recounts the horror of World War II on the eastern front, as seen through the eyes of a teenaged German soldier.

 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/102305.The_Forgotten_Soldier

I have it, really great book but as far as I know it's just a story. Not real events, but still great and feels realistic.

[Wolf8312]

Personally I’m not convinced that after his victories in the west Stalin would ever have dared attacking Nazi Germany, though they definitely knew the Germans were a threat. They (the Russians) certainly at any rate were not poised or ready to attack Germany.

 

I’ve watched anti Semitic documentaries that attempt to portray WW2 as Hitler simply reacting to events beyond his control, but what such revisionism and revisionists forget, is that Hitler laid down his aims, many many years before putting them into practice. It’s all in Mein Kampf. I think Hitler was very lucky during WW2 that even paid foreign intelligence analysts got bored reading his book and so were unable to learn of his intentions!

 

I think Stalin himself was genuinely astonished by the betrayal of the pact and had himself taken it seriously. Not certain of that, though there is evidence to suggest this based on his behavior and statements at the time. They were both agreesive warmongers of course but I think Stalin liked to choose his battles carefully. 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Wolf8312

[InProgress]

2 hours ago, TimJ147 said:

It's a true story ,check the reviews based on his diaries .

"The accuracy and authenticity of the book have been disputed by some historians. Some of the details Sajer mentions are incorrect, while other are impossible to verify due to the lack of surviving witnesses and documents."

 

There is some really bad mistakes but also some of exsoldiers confirmed that he was there. While it's realistic and probably he was soldier there, not everything is correct in this book. I would take it as a diary, where he is wrong about many things since soldiers could not know a lot, maybe his memory was breaking after all these years as well. Maybe he added some stuff to make it more interesting etc. So you know, don't take this too serious.

 

On 22.04.2018 at 6:05 PM, Wolf8312 said:

I ended up going with Battle of Moscow by Stahel, started reading it, and although there's a long way to go, it seemed exactly what I was looking for when I made this post.

 

I wanted to get this too ;D but damn, not in my country. Tho i got operation taifun 1941 of the same author. Shame that it's so hard to get ww2 books now :/ not many new is published and older are not republished

Edited April 24, 2018 by InProgress

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

I have this one, a bit old now but decent. https://www.amazon.com/Barbarossa-Russian-German-Conflict-Alan-Clark/dp/0688042686

[RhumbaAzul]

War Without Garlands; Robert Kershaw.

 

[SCG_OpticFlow]

Few newly declassified pages on the 77. anniversary -- Timoshenko's and Zhukov's orders during the early morning hours: http://june-22.mil.ru/

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Christer Bergström : Operation Barbarossa. Same author as on Black Cross/Red Star. Worth reading.