beta testing???

[Ste_Smith]

on locked thread buzzsaw from team f said that there was a beta test group for sp players??? i want to kno how to get on it coz i havnt seen any post here about it...assuming we allowed to talk about that anyway lots of locking going on at min rofl

[354thFG_Leifr]

I thought this was pretty telling:

 

Quote

If those persons are really interested in helping the development process for TF 5.0, they would instead look for ways to participate honestly ...

 

Wouldn't it be a dream if TF actively advertised the beta process instead of locking it behind doors? Buzzsaw wants honest and active participation, it's pretty hard to do that as so much is hushed away and the most active discussions are explicitly locked when the conversation turns against TF/ATAG. Heck, even this video has now been labelled as 'biased' and 'unfair'.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Leifr

[theOden]

Can you type down an example process for testing a specific feature?

How would you proceed?

Considering your type of writing text, feel free to give an example of how you would give feedback.

 

You think betatesting is fun?

If it is, you're doing it completely wrong.

[Ste_Smith]

did i mention fun???did i say i personally wanted to be part of the team??? no i didnt...dont make assumptions it will deffo make an ass of u...rofl..thx for not answering the q..have another go

[=FEW=Hauggy]

4 hours ago, Leifr said:

I thought this was pretty telling:

 

 

Wouldn't it be a dream if TF actively advertised the beta process instead of locking it behind doors? Buzzsaw wants honest and active participation, it's pretty hard to do that as so much is hushed away and the most active discussions are explicitly locked when the conversation turns against TF/ATAG. Heck, even this video has now been labelled as 'biased' and 'unfair'.

 

 

Do you think beta testing is in free access for BoX too? Because it's not and it's locked behind doors for good reasons too.

I don't think they need random people to come and then talk sh**t on the forums and share screenshots or videos of unfinished stuff without actually helping because that's the risk and Im certain it happened already.

I've done beta testing seriously and honestly it's just a shore not fun and games, it's not open to random people and certainly not advertised for very good reasons I'm 100% positive on that.

TF surely already has testers they can trust.

Edited April 18, 2018 by =FEW=Hauggy

[Ste_Smith]

same ones that didnt spot mp lag in blitz???or ones who didnt notice 20mm nukes in 4.3 iirc??? suuure

[354thFG_Leifr]

1 hour ago, theOden said:

Can you type down an example process for testing a specific feature?

How would you proceed?

Considering your type of writing text, feel free to give an example of how you would give feedback.

 

You think betatesting is fun?

If it is, you're doing it completely wrong.

 

53 minutes ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

Do you beta testing is in free access for BoX too? Because it's not and it's locked behind doors for good reasons too.

I don't think they need random people to come and then talk sh**t on the forums and share screenshots or videos of unfinished stuff without actually helping because that's the risk and Im certain it happened already.

I've done beta testing seriously and honestly it's just a shore not fun and games, it's not open to random people and certainly not advertised for very good reasons I'm 100% positive on that.

TF surely already has testers they can trust.

 

Did I say that I wanted to do it? Heck no, I don't have the time or patience to beta-test however there will be others who surely do. If Buzzsaw is saying that they are looking for 'honest participants' in the development of TF5 (and beyond?), why isn't there any open dialogue to enable access to said development? Forgive me for being cynical but I really don't think he would accept a long and arduous PM as to why one should be accepted in to the process.

 

Quote

- We have surveyed the community and asked them their opinions on what changes should be made to AI behaviour 
- We have set up a Beta testing group of interested single-players to work with our coder to test the routines

 

Yes, the community was surveyed over on ATAG and nowhere else. This isn't particularly surprising as ATAG is pretty much the last server left. By all accounts, ACG will soon throw in the towel and leave Cliffs. The beta testing group must be incredibly shallow.

 

I have no doubt that TF trust their testers, it's the only reasonable explanation as to why Cliffs is now worse off than it was pre-Blitz.

[Danziger]

After all the whining about getting 1c to give them the source code, people sure seem in a big hurry to drag this project down...

 

Just let the people work. TFS has even less resources to work with than Jason's team. The only unprofessional thing I've seen them doing so far is letting themselves get baited into pissing contests with haters and former team members. 

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Well i'm not exactly sure about the ones who had to answer and got into that stupid discussion were all team members, anyway...

I'd rather trust TFS and let THEM do what they do and then maybe open my mouth once 5.0 is out the door while keeping in mind that programming video games (and probably modelling all the models) is not easy and not an exact science plus these guys are only humans and can do an occasional mistake or 2 I have yet to see a game with 0 bugs.

Also those who say that the game was better before Blitz are full of sh** every issue was fixed and i played a couple weeks ago and it worked fine if I had one thing to complain about it would be some old glitches with the planes instruments that are probably very hard and time consuming to fix but knowing how hard TFS has it and their available manpower I just cant be mad at all.

When you know that some of them cumulate several jobs at the same time and do that on the side as they don't have magical money falling out of the sky the only thing I feel is respect and whats left is patience and a bit of trust.

At least as far as I'm concerned i've been provided with HUNDREDS of hours of fun thanks to their work for no money playing a game that without them would be near unplayable and ugly.

Honestly until 5.0 comes out they pretty much worked for free just for the community but many ungrateful and entitled people on this forum and probably elsewhere fail to see that.

 

Oh and by the way I have nothing to do with ATAG or anything i'm just a fan that is thankful for what they did and has respect for them as hard working people.

Also to the ATAG haters I say that I've always felt welcomed there and never had any issue on the contrary the community there was lightyears away from any toxicity and everytime I go on their TS i'm having a good time and I find patient and helpful people who might not tolerate childish and immature people as I do.

Edited April 18, 2018 by =FEW=Hauggy

[No.54dixx]

5 hours ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

Do you think beta testing is in free access for BoX too? Because it's not and it's locked behind doors for good reasons too.

I don't think they need random people to come and then talk sh**t on the forums and share screenshots or videos of unfinished stuff without actually helping because that's the risk and Im certain it happened already.

I've done beta testing seriously and honestly it's just a shore not fun and games, it's not open to random people and certainly not advertised for very good reasons I'm 100% positive on that.

TF surely already has testers they can trust.

sure. But then again you can't go around saying:

If those persons are really interested in helping the development process for TF 5.0, they would instead look for ways to participate honestly ...

and not provide a mean to participate.

[CisTer-dB-]

The candidate for testing goes with internal recommendation as far as I know. TFS doing it's best at including members from all the CloD community. From the big squad or individual member. If you think you can be useful I don't see why you can't email them, the worst that can happen the is that you will be turned down.

 

That's all 

 

o7

Edited April 18, 2018 by ATAG_dB

[Buzzsaw]

Hello all

 

The Beta Testing team was selected six months ago, and was selected from those who were long time and experienced CoD players and regular participants in the game.

 

It included a large number, (30+) of persons from many different online groups.

 

If you are not aware of this group, that tells me you are not paying attention or a regular member of the community.  Everyone who followed the game attentively knew about the group and those who made their interest known were generally offered positions.

 

We have no interest in offering Beta Testing positions to those who a) are not prepared to commit to play the game regularly, b) have nothing positive to say about it.

 

Those who are serious players of the game and interested in participating, please PM me.

 

Which category the OP and #2 poster do not fit... by the way, Leifr, that video which you linked for the second time has been assessed by quite a number of people as a pure 'hit job'... it is not objective or accurate review of CoD-Blitz by any considered examination.  I'll let others draw their own conclusions as to why you continue to promote it.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Buzzsaw

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Ha, gatekeeping?!

 

You dig a hole almost as fast as Shitspawn. 

 

The more I read your disingenuous interactions with our community and see the dissonant revisionism regarding ATAG/CloD community as a whole and its interactions with this product early on (ie. hitjob), the more committed I am to not spending a cent on your product.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Space_Ghost

[Ste_Smith]

ouch...i think???not that i wanted to beta test ai as i only play mp and atag just have dumb bot ai bombers...but  fair enough i guess u have enough customers buzzsaw u dont need my money either...

Edited April 18, 2018 by Ste_Smith
added

[JG1_Shadepiece]

Crash's vid is definitely not a hit job. Dunno who you think the majority is, but the vast majority that I know of thinks it's pretty fair even if a bit brash. All said and done I think the video was hilarious. I enjoy many of his videos. 

[BlindAsABat]

@Buzzsaw,

 

After the release of 4.5 I think people are entitled to be sceptical about TF's testing procedures.  The fact that a patch that turned a game with some flaws and omissions into an unplayable mess was released is surely an indicator that something needs to change as regards the testing regime for the next iteration.  

 

As an aside, I am still not sure what benefits 4.5 brought to the game.  I am only an ordinary player who likes to fly RAF aeroplanes in a BoB context but I struggle to see what advances to my game play were introduced in 4.5.  To be sure I can now fly a Beaufighter, with a rather strange engine model, and its is now even harder to damage the engine on my Hurricane (80, 80 110 and I can stunt around the sky to my hearts content and pull off battle climbs that even in 4.3 would have blown the engine).    As for throwing in the Hurricane fighter bomber (not only completley ahistorical to the BoB but also with a flight model that gives a bombed-up Hurricane the same perfromance as a standard version) and one has to question if the plot was lost.

 

It is your game, of course,  and you can do with it as you like but maybe, just maybe engaging with people who have reasoned and reasonable criticisms to make might be a better way forward than the over-defensiveness we have seen in the past.  Crikey, who knows, if TF had listened to some more of its customers in the past I might now be looking forward to another wonderful evening either flying as a memember of one of a dozen online squadrons engaged in the battle to defend Southern England or working as TopHat using mental four-dimensional geometry to get those 12 squadrons into and out of combat to the best effect (you know what SoW used to offer).   As it is, well I'll probably look in on the server list, see who is about, think about what each server has on offer  and then go and practice hovering a Huey in DCS.

 

  

[Ste_Smith]

serious q...is it his game or is it ours???

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, Space_Ghost said:

The more I read your disingenuous interactions with our community and see the dissonant revisionism regarding ATAG/CloD community as a whole and its interactions with this product early on (ie. hitjob), the more committed I am to not spending a cent on your product.

 

That is fine and dandy , I am sure they can make due without your precious money,  You post however did not inform or enlightened anything. You continue to do this sort of shit post toward anything not related to BOS series. It do not even provoke anyone, so what is the purpose. You are very quick giving people a wedgie if they conduct in the same way against Great Battles series. In fact giving a slightest negative opinion in this forum is really starting a shitstorm

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

1 minute ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

 

That is fine and dandy , I am sure they can make due without your precious money,  You post however did not inform or enlightened anything. You continue to do this sort of shit post toward anything not related to BOS series. It do not even provoke anyone, so what is the purpose. You are very quick giving people a wedgie if they conduct in the same way against Great Battles series. In fact giving a slightest negative opinion in this forum is really starting a shitstorm

 

Chill out and don't cry on me.

[Lusekofte]

It was a honest question , your post simply was a example on behavior yourself have opposed to in this site

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Give the guy a break Im sure all the complains and bugs will be adressed in time.

Also this Crash guy made some stupid remarks (aside from the terrible cheesy jokes which made me cringe) stating that it was difficult to bind keys which sounds like a joke or that there was a lack of fidelity with regard to flyable aircraft and even straight up false statements like saying that the flight models and damage models were unrealistic and the planes too easy to handle like he's an ww2 pilot while actually being uneducated about the matter, he also said that the graphics were bad a low altitude...Well not really they were in fact improved.

This poor amateur Youtuber should keep doing what he does best promote the button pressing simulator he loves.

Of course there are some legitimate complains and they've already been answered to, the fact is that AI is currently being worked on and same goes for the oddities with the terrain.

I seriously don't understand where you're going with your "will not buy" threats, when I read you I think to myself "good! That's the toxicity cleaning itself out".

Like someone is going to cry because you don't come ruin the athmosphere? Big deal!

There's no need to get childish because you might have had personal conflicts in the past nobody cares.

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by =FEW=Hauggy

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

12 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

It was a honest question , your post simply was a example on behavior yourself have opposed to in this site

 

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where you asked a question?

[69thSpiritus]

Back on topic please. The OP asked about being part of the SP beta team. PM Buzzsaw or myself if you are interested. 

 

 

[ATAG_Flare]

2 hours ago, ACG_RED_Shadepiece said:

Crash's vid is definitely not a hit job. Dunno who you think the majority is, but the vast majority that I know of thinks it's pretty fair even if a bit brash. All said and done I think the video was hilarious. I enjoy many of his videos. 

 

Man, his video was a piece of garbage. He raised some good criticisms (about AI issues) but he just whined about the FMs and DMs that are apparently awful because he feels that they're awful. And his video was filled with unfunny crass jokes. It wasn't a review. It was just made to attack people who like CloD and make the CloD haters feel good about themselves.

 

Can we all just acknowledge the following:

 

CloD has it's fair share of issues. AI is not great, in fact it is quite bad, especially ground unit AI, temperature modelling could be improved, and the UI is complicated. However, the flight models are on par with BoX (opinions may vary, I know some people who think the CloD ones are far superior and some who think the BoX ones are better.) the only really poor aspects of the CloD FMs is ground handling (ground friction is not modeled), and BoX surely has better effects of high-speed instability, the damage models are quite good, almost unparalleled in terms of system damage, however BoX has better structural damage implemented. The graphics aren't flashy, especially the effects like tracers, fire, smoke, leaks, clouds, etc, but the terrain is alright and the view distance is great, and the colours are very realistic. Cockpits are modeled very nicely. Also, CloD has lots of small glitches like upside down ships, mirrors not working, etc, and lacks the polish of BoX, due to the fact that TFS still is learning how to work as a professional dev team rather than a mod team.

 

However, it is still quite a great sim. On par with BoX in my opinion. Unfortunately it has lost some good servers, SoW was a ton of fun. Maybe in the future there can be another one of these sort of server. Maybe it will be by ATAG, maybe by TWC or another group altogether.  Let's just all stop hating on each other's sims of choice, nobody has anything to gain by doing that. If you don't like one or the other, you don't have to play it, but you also don't have to go rant on the forums on how the sim you don't even play is bad in your opinion.

[ACG_Boyezee]

25 minutes ago, ATAG_Flare said:

It wasn't a review. It was just made to attack people who like CloD and make the CloD haters feel good about themselves.

 

 

It was a review Flare, an opinion piece, nothing more nothing less,  to think that it was made just to attack people or to validate CloD haters is extremely paranoid.

 

His style is crass and direct - all of his video's are like that - and I have enjoyed his channel for a long time, personally I think he is very funny - people may or may not agree with his points but he is just reviewing it as he see's it in his own way - there is nothing wrong with that at all.

 

 

 

[Poochnboo]

I enjoy the  hell out of CLOD. It's one of my favorites. When I'm in the CLOD Spitfire, I really feel as though I'm in the airplane! I think its terrific. Couldn't care less what this guy thinks. Opinions are like buttholes. Everybody has one. l

[354thFG_Leifr]

1 hour ago, ATAG_Flare said:

 

Man, his video was a piece of garbage. He raised some good criticisms (about AI issues) but he just whined about the FMs and DMs that are apparently awful because he feels that they're awful. And his video was filled with unfunny crass jokes. It wasn't a review. It was just made to attack people who like CloD and make the CloD haters feel good about themselves.

 

You have a problem if you think the video was a hit piece or meant to attack folks who enjoy Cliffs - that is tantamount to paranoia. Yes, the humour was crass and somewhat crude but it's nothing particularly startingly if you're accustomed with humour from the British Isles, I found it somewhat tame.

[Lusekofte]

My problem with that particular video was not what he said about the simulator per se , because that can be said about all the sims around. What you must look for in any review in this genre is more the agenda behind it. This hostility between the simulator communities has grown very tiring , and it is so obvious that this video is based on this crap.

But as said before he had some good points, well known points , Issues you simply have to live with. 

Like in all other sim/ game. Defending all aspects of DCS , COD and Great battles is doomed, they all got something we all want to be different

[sevenless]

What a boring debate...If you don´t like the way TF is going with CloD:Blitz you might want to play on the original CloD you get per Steam and see how it turns out for you. Nobody is forcing you to follow them. You got Blitz from them for free. If that is not enough, I don´t know what else to ask from them.

Edited April 18, 2018 by sevenless

[JG1_Shadepiece]

27 minutes ago, sevenless said:

What a boring debate...If you don´t like the way TF is going with CloD:Blitz you might want to play on the original CloD you get per Steam and see how it turns out for you. Nobody is forcing you to follow them. You got Blitz from them for free. If that is not enough, I don´t know what else to ask from them.

Yeah, only for some respect for the customer base that had been desperately trying to communicate the huge amount of issues they have with not only the game but the development process. Maybe some acknowledgement from the devs that they've made a mess of things, and that they have been horribly resistant to criticism. I might not play the game anymore, but they way the team has acted is only convincing me more and more not to support them with my money.

[=FEW=Hauggy]

[Lusekofte]

What bugs me most is people that is not interested in Blitz nor original COD stir the pot. The same people act the same way in DCS related topics. And at the same time act like police if it is done on Great battles oriented topics. 

If one is not interested, one should ignore the topic all together. My wrong is responding on such behavior

They really should be ignored ( note to self)

Edited April 19, 2018 by 216th_LuseKofte

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I played Cliffs for a few hundred hours and participated with ACG at one point - you don't have to appreciate my opinion but I still get to have one.

[Beazil]

On 4/18/2018 at 6:38 AM, BorysVorobyov said:

After all the whining about getting 1c to give them the source code, people sure seem in a big hurry to drag this project down...

 

Just let the people work. TFS has even less resources to work with than Jason's team. The only unprofessional thing I've seen them doing so far is letting themselves get baited into pissing contests with haters and former team members. 

/thread.

 

Going to read the rest now.... but I'm inclined to cut these guys a large amount of slack, considering the work they do and under the conditions they do it.  It isn't for the money I'm sure.  

 

I'll shut up and read now.

[Lusekofte]

12 hours ago, Space_Ghost said:

I played Cliffs for a few hundred hours and participated with ACG at one point - you don't have to appreciate my opinion but I still get to have one.

 

Yeah but there is no opinion , only a testimony of no interest . But I was not specific thinking of you. I appreciate your opinion in this forum . Quite funny replies and a lot of good input, so I do not mind your opinion at all

Edited April 20, 2018 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Herne]

On 4/19/2018 at 10:38 PM, 216th_LuseKofte said:

What bugs me most is people that is not interested in Blitz nor original COD stir the pot. The same people act the same way in DCS related topics. And at the same time act like police if it is done on Great battles oriented topics. 

If one is not interested, one should ignore the topic all together. My wrong is responding on such behavior

They really should be ignored ( note to self)

 

I want to love cliffs. i am certain that if a battle of Britain map existed in the current "BoX" line up it would almost certainly be my theatre of choice.

Things that really turn me off to CLoD :-
clunky UI
keybindings :- So much choice I find it hard to find what i'm actually looking for.
Ground handling physics
Rough engine sounds when warming up for taxi. sound goes from sweet running to super rough with no transition.
Laser tracers. its a horrible effect, if it can't be fixed then remove the garbage all together.
Instrument HUD. Is there anyway to completely remove this ?
And finally, any modern sim really needs to include VR. - Although I admit that the ground handling physics needs to be sorted pre VR or it could just turn into a vomit fest, if the plane behaves in a different way to what the brain expects.

I keep checking back from time to time because I hope that TFS may one day be able to turn this into something I can enjoy. Right now it's no where near the mark.

I also play VTOL VR, DCS, but most of my time is spent in IL2 BoX where I feel like the actual feeling of flight that is captured for these old Warbirds, is second to none.

I guess that progress is slow because TFS may have to re write large parts of the game engine which is a tedious task. I think it's a shame and indeed if it might actually be quicker if they were able to licence the use of the great battles engine, and build their own BoB and Africa maps and assets that could be sold as campaigns for the great battle series.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that certainly in the FS community, the my game is better than your game mentality is probably much less of an issue given the average age of the average simmer. At the end of the day all any of us want is a good flight sim, that makes us want to jump into the cockpit at the earliest opportunity

Edited April 23, 2018 by =FEW=Herne

[Sokol1]

3 hours ago, =FEW=Herne said:

Things that really turn me off to CLoD :-
clunky UI

 

... don't mention that ...  ...  

 

Quote

keybindings :- So much choice I find it hard to find what i'm actually looking for.

 

In this matter is preferable have 'much choices' than have few/lacking options, but if just removed from CloD controls list the options related to Engine # 5 to # 8 or better, from #3 to # 8, since difficult the game will have this kind of planes, the options for Aircraft -  the most impaired part, will be reduced in almost 50%. And commands can be added at any time - when really needed.

Quote

Instrument HUD. Is there anyway to completely remove this ?

 

Yes, easy. Just right click and close the "Info Windows" - any message/screen you see over  the game have a (somewhat) customizable transparent window in their background,  that you can close if want. In this matter CloD offer a plus relatively to other flight games, a very welcome feature... which remain not understood by many players.

 

Quote

And finally, any modern sim really needs to include VR. -

 

OK, but let's agree - leave this for after CloD became fixed to be considered a true "modern" game, that don't more need rely on "workarounds" for some "half-made" things work... in their  "peculiarity way".  Because if not, you will fly "15 minutes" in VR and shelf the game again, like many do after each path. Anyway VR still a "distant dream" for majority of players, for what a better camera control will help more. 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Sokol1

[ATAG_Flare]

5 hours ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

I want to love cliffs. i am certain that if a battle of Britain map existed in the current "BoX" line up it would almost certainly be my theatre of choice.

Things that really turn me off to CLoD :-
clunky UI
keybindings :- So much choice I find it hard to find what i'm actually looking for.
Ground handling physics
Rough engine sounds when warming up for taxi. sound goes from sweet running to super rough with no transition.
Laser tracers. its a horrible effect, if it can't be fixed then remove the garbage all together.
Instrument HUD. Is there anyway to completely remove this ?
And finally, any modern sim really needs to include VR. - Although I admit that the ground handling physics needs to be sorted pre VR or it could just turn into a vomit fest, if the plane behaves in a different way to what the brain expects.

I keep checking back from time to time because I hope that TFS may one day be able to turn this into something I can enjoy. Right now it's no where near the mark.

I also play VTOL VR, DCS, but most of my time is spent in IL2 BoX where I feel like the actual feeling of flight that is captured for these old Warbirds, is second to none.

I guess that progress is slow because TFS may have to re write large parts of the game engine which is a tedious task. I think it's a shame and indeed if it might actually be quicker if they were able to licence the use of the great battles engine, and build their own BoB and Africa maps and assets that could be sold as campaigns for the great battle series.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that certainly in the FS community, the my game is better than your game mentality is probably much less of an issue given the average age of the average simmer. At the end of the day all any of us want is a good flight sim, that makes us want to jump into the cockpit at the earliest opportunity

 

Good post. The UI really is difficult to learn (I know it pretty well by now but it is still a bit hard to use.) Ground handling needs quite a bit of work (I think 4.5 actually got a bit worse from 4.3, I think friction between the wheels and the ground is not modeled or something like that, hopefully it will be fixed.) Sounds also got worse in 4.5 as they had to revert because the 4.3 sounds were copyrighted. Hopefully those will be fixed too. The tracers, well at least every single tracer doesn't leave smoke like in BoX! (Only some types of tracer rounds left smoke.) But they don't look great, too uniform and straight IMO. Also the British tracers should leave smoke as they did historically.

 

The instrument HUD (I assume you mean the prop pitch/throttle/radiator indicators) can be modified or removed if you want, but it's a bit hard (back to the UI problems.) I really hope for a button to toggle on and off the HUD completely.

 

VR I don't think is a necessity, players with VR are probably the minority and CloD has other priorities to fix first. But they are working on it.

 

CloD has problems but it is still a pretty darn good sim in the important areas (FMs, DMs, etc) so I like it. But I like BoX just as much.

 

I disagree with you saying that it might be quicker to rebuild the game in the Great Battles engine, that would basically mean they could only reuse the 3D models and everything else would need to be totally rebuilt as the tech is all different between the games. Also CloD would lose some of its very cool features such as detailed loadout editing and clickable cockpits, not to mention all the user created missions and campaigns would not work.

 

Your last point about the my game is better than your game hit the nail on the head. There's no point in bashing other sims/communities/developers, it doesn't fix anything and all that we all want is great sims.

[Sokol1]

14 minutes ago, ATAG_Flare said:

The instrument HUD (I assume you mean the prop pitch/throttle/radiator indicators) can be modified or removed if you want, but it's a bit hard (back to the UI problems.) I

 

But require just 2 clicks on windows to close, how this is "hard"? 

 

upload pics

 

 

[ATAG_Flare]

Just now, Sokol1 said:

 

But require just 2 clicks on windows to close, how this is "hard"? 

 

upload pics

 

 

Well it's hard to figure out how to alt+click on the window in the first place to get the ability to right click to show up. In general the UI is a bit difficult to unerstand. For you or me who are old hands at CloD it's common knowledge but it's hard for beginners.