Bomb blast sound too low?

[Wolferl_1791]

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to treat this as a bug or a design choice, so I'll post it here in the General forum.

 

First of all, I don't know how many of you have ever turned off your engine just to see/hear the amazing sound-delay implemented in the game. Take a Ju87, put a Satan bomb on it and bomb the nearest field. It works in interior and exterior camera.

 

BUT... what boggled my mind is how low the sound is, even at 600m, the closest I dared to be at without blowing up my plane. Here's what what a mere 250kg ww2 bomb sounds like:

https://youtu.be/ENdDKltgfg8

 

Now, for a test, try to bomb a train with the Satan. Again, try to be at low speed (no wind sound) and with engine off. You will hear a much bigger sound, coming from all train cars exploding at the same time. But the bomb itself is a mere thump. I'd expect it to be so loud as to be able to hear it over the sound of our engines. For example, here's what 500kg bombs sound over the sound of a running military truck engine, at 600m. The sound is heavily normalized and you can bet that the doors are shut.

 

 

Ok, I don't want my ears to bleed in VR (they already do thanks to the overly loud engine), but the effect can be simulated with low frequency sound and a dimming of the other sounds, maybe a slight whistling of the ears. I think it would give dive bombers something extra to look forward to.

 

Your thoughts about realism?

Edited April 16, 2018 by Wolferl_1791

[Nibbio]

You may be on to something. Never even noticed the sound delay

[Lemon]

i know nothing about explosives but my first tough could be the kind of explosives can make different sound ?

[Wolferl_1791]

23 minutes ago, Lemon said:

i know nothing about explosives but my first tough could be the kind of explosives can make different sound ?

 

Yes but at longer range you simply hear the shockwave as a low sound. Here's a short clip which sounds good to me (I'm not an expert), although the sound delay in this particular movie seems a bit short, as I doubt they'd be at just 1000m from the blast.

https://youtu.be/_JU2ZQXjeuw?t=2m30s

[Finkeren]

Don’t know if it’s got something to do with sound settings, but I hear explosions from the outside when in cockpit just fine. I can even hear a falling plane impact with the ground or hear the AAA firing when taking off from an airfield that’s under attack.

 

And I definitely don’t think the sound of the engine and the airflow is too loud. That sound is deafening in a poorly sealed (or open) cockpit. If you’ve ever driven an old or cheap car down the highway, you know just how loud the airflow can be at just 75mph - and a WW2 cockpit is even less sound proof than you standard old rickety car. Now crank crank that noise up by a few orders of magnitude and put in the unfiltered noise of a 1000+ horsepower blasting directly backwards towards to cockpit (no mufflers on these bad boys) and you have an idea of just how loud it is.

 

The B-25 in particular was notoriously noisy, because the engines were placed right beside the cockpit. Despite t

wearing headphones and being in a generally better sealed cockpit than the fighter pilot, B-25 pilots almost universally suffered permanent hearing loss.

 

[Wolferl_1791]

19 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

 

Maybe something with VR then. I'll test without. Anyway, regarding what you wrote, I'm not talking about mere sound, but shockwave. Here's a good explanation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure#Examples_of_sound_pressure

 

Also here's a web calculator: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

Now,  a  1 ton bomb can do 210dB of pure noise at blast point, which basically means 150dB at 1000m, which equates to 600Pa of sound pressure. Which is the same as a modern jet at take-off measured at close range. I've been close to a running plane piston engine. Yes, it's loud, but not THAT loud.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Wolferl_1791

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I've seen several debates about certain sounds in Il-2. In particular, the loudness of guns has been controversial. I know that it's difficult to design audio that meets disparate expectations. 

 

A sound mod could address most of these concerns. It is a difficult task, but it's certainly possible. I hope that someone will rise to the challenge.

[Finkeren]

22 minutes ago, Wolferl_1791 said:

 

 I've been close to a running plane piston engine. Yes, it's loud, but not THAT loud.

 

No, compared to jet engines, they aren’t that loud, though on the ground they obviously only develop a fraction of the noise they do at full power in the air. However, if you stand directly behind the exhaust the noise is quite intense. That was the issue with the B-25 - the exhausts were placed right next to the cockpit, and on many fighters the exhaust is likewise placed so that it blasts almost directly towards the canopy. Unlike jet engines, where the noise is indirect when sitting in the cockpit.

[Wolferl_1791]

28 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

No, compared to jet engines, they aren’t that loud, though on the ground they obviously only develop a fraction of the noise they do at full power in the air. However, if you stand directly behind the exhaust the noise is quite intense. That was the issue with the B-25 - the exhausts were placed right next to the cockpit, and on many fighters the exhaust is likewise placed so that it blasts almost directly towards the canopy. Unlike jet engines, where the noise is indirect when sitting in the cockpit.

 

Fine, I don't disagree with that. But if you drop Satans repeatedly in a quick mission, and get closer and closer to the bomb blast, you'll notice that you go from "pathetic thump" to "pilot dead with pathetic thump" in a matter of meters.

But you can test it for yourself. Do a quick mission, jump into a Ju-87 and drop a Satan on one of the 2 river tankers. Cut your engine (not idle, stop it) before dropping the bomb and raise volume until the sound of the air is "more than just loud". Try to be within 500m of the explosion and at less than 250kph. Now... as the bomb goes off and the tanker explodes as well, ask yourself, "is this how loud I'd expect it to be in real life without ear protection?". The answer is a big no, it should be way louder than a lightning strike at close range, enough to take your breath away. Do remember that we're talking about a shockwave that would destroy your plane (or kill your pilot  instantly) if you were just 100/200m  closer. Not that I want to die playing the game, not that it doesn't do a good job at masking other engine sounds, I don't want War Thunder. I'm just saying that bomb sounds are too low. Damaging volume could be prevented with normalization, i.e. dimming out the rest of the sounds and maybe introducing some ear ringing.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Wolferl_1791

[Bando]

Maybe off topic, but did you see that dustcloud? It's almost impossible to see if the target is destroyed right away. One would have to wait for the dust to settle.

[56RAF_Roblex]

I loaded up the 30 day trial of Adobe Atmos for my headphones a few days back and it really accentuates some of those explosions even though the game does not use surround sound.  However even before that I could easily hear the sound of my victims hitting the  ground from 1000m up and 2000m beyond.   As for piston engines not being loud,  as Finkerin said, WW2 fighters did not use mufflers or silencers (plus they were a lot more bigger & more powerful than most light aircraft).  Go to an airshow and some of those fighters just on warm up completely drown out every other sound, even the loudspeaker above your head!   Coincidentally,  I was watching an air ambulance helicopter a few days back and sitting at idle it was loud enough to cause hearing loss from a hundred yards.  It was edging on painful.  It actually became much quieter when it throttled up to take off. Maybe that is something todo with the rotor wash?

Edited April 17, 2018 by 56RAF_Roblex

[blitze]

No need for modding.

 

Sound in game is fine for effects and radio.  Remember folks, we are flying 1940's era aircraft with related equipment, if you think it is the same as a modern plane with noise cancelling headsets - you are seriously deluded.

 

Even at low volumes I head effects, if you crank it to what they would have heard in real life - no problem but I don't want the hearing damage that would be associated with such LOL

[PatrickAWlson]

Never been in a real fighter plane cockpit, much less with the engine running, but the pilot accounts that I have read seem to say that the engines were loud - very loud.  Galland commented on how quiet the 262 was compared to the piston engines. 

 

From my limited experience in propeller planes there have been some (Dornier high wing twin engine comes to mind) that have been extremely loud.  You could explode a nuke and I wouldn't know it until I saw the mushroom cloud.  Others not so much - a somewhat raised voice does the job.  I get the sense that WWII fighters are more like the former the the latter.

[InProgress]

Damn... if only we would have all this dust from 500kg bomb just floating like this :D

[RedKestrel]

I imagine more realistic dust and smoke persistence would massive chew up system resources, but it would be insanely good for immersion.

Seeing an entire front line covered in dust and smoke, trying to pick out targets...crazy...

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

22 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

I imagine more realistic dust and smoke persistence would massive chew up system resources, but it would be insanely good for immersion.

Seeing an entire front line covered in dust and smoke, trying to pick out targets...crazy...

Heck ROF had a permanent dirt haze over the front line!  It was the best way to find it... 

 

id actually what to know if the ambient explosions on the Stalingrad map actually cause damage?

also, when a train explodes or it’s fuel cars, do they cause blast damage?    

I remember in old il2 they would so you had to be sure not to be too close when it went up.

[Wolferl_1791]

Sorry but you guys seem to be confusing the subject. I was not complaining about the other sounds, just the bombs. Their volume is too low even in external camera with just crickets buzzing around. And when you are within the radius of the shockwave there is no sound indication of it hitting the aircraft. I don't care how well muffled your ears are or how loud the engine is, you'd still "feel" it, since it's "loud" enough to rip your plane apart.

 

Also I explicitly mentioned multiple times about turning off your engine to test it when comparing it to the videos I've linked.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Wolferl_1791

[MarderIV]

I'd have to agree about the sounds of the bombs being a little muted, but I really don't think we'd be seeing any work on them any time soon until Tank Crew gets pushed farther into development. Sounds are going to be significantly more obvious and more commonplace from a ground war perspective than in the air since the engine sounds themselves are incredibly overbearing. I'm pretty confused myself as to why I can hear planes crash from my cockpit. Flying in a turboprop tubeliner in real life kinda makes you question some of the in-cockpit sound effects you hear, but that's not discounting the awesome work the sound engineer has done to engine sounds. (I often crank up my headphones and hear myself fly by from the ground just to hear the roar). 

 

But perhaps we could ask to turn up the actual sound of the explosions instead of having to simulate nonlinear acoustics at a higher level. I think turning up the knob somewhere would net a better and quicker benefit than having to investigate the whole thing, specially when there are other more pressing concerns in the air war where we are at right at the moment. 

[Wolferl_1791]

Ok, I think I've found the bug and I'm gonna treat it as such from now on...

 

I've done a simple test, basically start a Ju87 with various loadouts, begin at 500m on autopilot, start recording and drop weapon. Then switch to external camera and follow the bomb in (I know there's a dedicated camera for that), but keep a bit of distance so that the explosion will sound roughly 1-2 seconds after the blast (300-600m from impact).

And I've arrived to a nasty conclusion. There is no volume difference between a 50 kg bomb or a 1800kg bomb. Sometimes sounds are more "crashing", other times they're more of a "thump", but this seems to be random, just drop 4 50kg bombs in 2-3 second intervals and you'll sometimes hear different sounds from each explosion, even though they land in the same grassy field.

Now... the 50kg bomb actually sounds GOOD. It really does, both in external cameras and in interior camera. But it needs to be scaled up for the bigger bombs, which I suspect would also cure my problem as well. As far as coding goes, I doubt it would take much effort to assign an additional sound, let's call it "shockwave vibration", a low rumble just as the one in the Unbroken movie (quick reminder https://youtu.be/_JU2ZQXjeuw?t=2m36s). Since distance and sound travel time is already calculated, it means that there is already a "timer" in the game which can then control the intensity of the sound. The bigger the bomb, the bigger and longer this sound will be. For its duration, all other sounds in the game should be normalized to it, basically muted at first, then slowly coming back up to normal as the vibration dies down.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Wolferl_1791

[KoN_]

Can you hear flak around your cockpit . ?

Can you hear hit sounds when attacked .?

Just asking because i don`t hear a thing ..

I think the effects are quite good in this game bomb wise `maybe the cloud could be bigger after the effect . 

[MarderIV]

43 minutes ago, II./JG77_Con said:

Can you hear flak around your cockpit . ?

 

Do you hear that metal-like wooshing/slicing sound around you when the flak clouds begin to close in on you? They're definitely there, specially with headphones on. In my A-20 campaign I keep an ear out for those sounds and start changing my course when I hear them because that means I'm well zeroed in by guns on the ground. 

 

At first I had no idea what those wooshing/slicing sounds were. When I opened external view and saw the flak around me that's when I figured what they sounded like. The sound effect is most likely that of the shrapnel from flak flying everywhere close by. 

 

[KoN_]

No I've never heard the flak only seen . But 90% I fly online but now with new campaigns I'll start to fly more single .