Bailing out in water : always Killed?

[IckyATLAS]

When in BOK I bail out in good conditions over water, I always get killed. That should not be so. I bail out in good conditions and am alive until touch down on water. In fact there is a splash and I disappear. No pilot seen floating. And when finishing the mission I am killed. That should not be so.

 

[Chief_Mouser]

Quote

 

 

Agreed. Where's the Air-Sea rescue?

Edited April 12, 2018 by 216th_Cat

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, the Aircrew ingame seem not to be too keen on Life in many cases. 

 

They'll happily sit in their Aircraft while it Burns to the Ground, Sit around in a Field while all the Flak ignores the Attacking Planes and concentrates it's Fire on him, the Gunners don't get out of their Positions even if it doesn't interfere with the Pilot and basically any time the Pilot gets out of the Aircraft without an open Chute he dies, even if he jumps at 70kph just on the Round Out for Landing in a 52. 

It was even funnier back in the Days when sometimes the Pilot just did the Jesus Thing sitting on the Water. 

[Yogiflight]

34 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

When in BOK I bail out in good conditions over water, I always get killed. That should not be so. I bail out in good conditions and am alive until touch down on water. In fact there is a splash and I disappear. No pilot seen floating. And when finishing the mission I am killed. That should not be so.

Of course, you are killed, or did you see any life jacket, so far. They are not modelled, as it was not needed for BOS, and got lost in creating BOK. Obviously you are not thought to fly over the sea.

[seafireliv]

2 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

When in BOK I bail out in good conditions over water, I always get killed. That should not be so. I bail out in good conditions and am alive until touch down on water. In fact there is a splash and I disappear. No pilot seen floating. And when finishing the mission I am killed. That should not be so.

 

 

Wait so even if your parachute has opened and you`re fine you`ll die if you land in water? I`ve crash landed in water and lived -At least I think I did.... Now I`m going to have to test that too!

Edited April 13, 2018 by seafireliv

[InProgress]

Waiting for this

 

[sevenless]

10 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

When in BOK I bail out in good conditions over water, I always get killed. That should not be so. I bail out in good conditions and am alive until touch down on water. In fact there is a splash and I disappear. No pilot seen floating. And when finishing the mission I am killed. That should not be so.

 

 

The game assumes that pilots never learned swimming nor have any life jackets...

 

Seriously, looks like a bug to me.

[Herne]

3 hours ago, InProgress said:

Waiting for this

 

 

do you manually release the harness or was that automatic ?

[56RAF_Roblex]

4 hours ago, InProgress said:

Waiting for this

 

 

That video is from the Battle Of Britain.   At that time there was no such thing as 'Air Sea Rescue' on the British side (The LW had it) so even in CLoD most servers apply a random chance of dying.  If the server is accurate the odds are way against you as pilots who bailed over the sea usually died unless they were picked up by a lucky fishing boat or the LW picked them up.    There were some fast launches near flying boat bases but proper organised ASR was not started until 1941.        I cannot find any references to the Russians having such a system even later in the war and I also can't find mention of the LW operating ASR in the Kuban region.  That does not mean it did not exist for one of both sides but don't just assume it *must* have been there.

 

EDIT:  I have found references to German AST (Seenotdienst) operating in the Black sea though they were often used for supply runs and rescuing land units.  

Edited April 13, 2018 by 56RAF_Roblex

[dburne]

The moral of the story:

Don't bail out over water. At least for now.

 

[seafireliv]

33 minutes ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

That video is from the Battle Of Britain.   At that time there was no such thing as 'Air Sea Rescue' on the British side (The LW had it) so even in CLoD most servers apply a random chance of dying.  If the server is accurate the odds are way against you as pilots who bailed over the sea usually died unless they were picked up by a lucky fishing boat or the LW picked them up.    There were some fast launches near flying boat bases but proper organised ASR was not started until 1941.        I cannot find any references to the Russians having such a system even later in the war and I also can't find mention of the LW operating ASR in the Kuban region.  That does not mean it did not exist for one of both sides but don't just assume it *must* have been there.

 

EDIT:  I have found references to German AST (Seenotdienst) operating in the Black sea though they were often used for supply runs and rescuing land units.  

 

Yea, but water isn`t acid. If you end up in water alive there should be a chance of survival.

[354thFG_Leifr]

13 minutes ago, seafireliv said:

 

Yea, but water isn`t acid. If you end up in water alive there should be a chance of survival.

 

Take a dip in the English Channel mate, even at midsummer, and see how well it goes.

[seafireliv]

10 minutes ago, Leifr said:

 

Take a dip in the English Channel mate, even at midsummer, and see how well it goes.

 

I have. It isn`t acid.

[354thFG_Leifr]

1 minute ago, seafireliv said:

 

I have. It isn`t acid.

 

Thirteen miles out with full flying gear on?

[Trooper117]

There are accounts of RAF pilots being saved having bailed out in the channel... (RAF Air Sea Rescue Service) motto: 'The sea shall not have them'.

Coastal Command also gave a sterling service too.

Many were lost however, but many were saved to.

Type 2 rescue launches (HSL) were used I believe, plus there was the old Walrus that could pick up downed crewmen as well.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Trooper117

[RedKestrel]

Anyone know if flying squadrons on the eastern front were equipped with dingies or the like, as other allied? Even a floater vest wouldn't keep you going for long, and in the black sea I imagine hypothermia would get you pretty quick.

Ideally I think I'd like to see some kind of % chance of survival based on distance from shore, distance from friendly naval units, season, etc. But I think it would always be slim...

[IckyATLAS]

6 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

That video is from the Battle Of Britain.   At that time there was no such thing as 'Air Sea Rescue' on the British side (The LW had it) so even in CLoD most servers apply a random chance of dying.  If the server is accurate the odds are way against you as pilots who bailed over the sea usually died unless they were picked up by a lucky fishing boat or the LW picked them up.    There were some fast launches near flying boat bases but proper organised ASR was not started until 1941.        I cannot find any references to the Russians having such a system even later in the war and I also can't find mention of the LW operating ASR in the Kuban region.  That does not mean it did not exist for one of both sides but don't just assume it *must* have been there.

 

EDIT:  I have found references to German AST (Seenotdienst) operating in the Black sea though they were often used for supply runs and rescuing land units.  

 

We could at least have a probability of being saved that is inversely proportional to the distance to the shore, or to a friendly boat, ship, submarine etc. The shorter the distance the higher the probability of staying alive. You can say swim at least two three miles to save your life. This probability can then be even be reduced according to the weather. In very rough water and bad weather the probability of staying alive goes down. Then you can add factors like if you are in friendly or enemy territory. All this is not so difficult to implement. 

In that way if you have to ditch with your plane, or bail out at sea, you will try to do it as near as possible to the coast or a friendly ship, and that would make sense.

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Anyone know if flying squadrons on the eastern front were equipped with dingies or the like, as other allied? Even a floater vest wouldn't keep you going for long, and in the black sea I imagine hypothermia would get you pretty quick.

 

Soviet pilots had just basic lifejackets. On a related note, the author of Red Star Against the Swasitka talks about how, when his unit deployed to the Black Sea region, the supply chain initially tried to give them Army-issue lifejackets, which apparently were pieces of garbage that would take far too long for the pilot to inflate. After complaining loudly about this, they finally were issued Navy lifejackets, which apparently were far better.

[Pajeka]

9 hours ago, 56RAF_Roblex said:

 

“That video is from the Battle Of Britain.   At that time there was no such thing as 'Air Sea Rescue' on the British side” 

 

I think we have a tendancy to forget our UK volunteer lifesaving organisations....

 

https://rnli.org/about-us/our-history/timeline/1939-1945-second-world-war

 

 

[InProgress]

On 13.04.2018 at 11:53 AM, =FEW=Herne said:

do you manually release the harness or was that automatic ?

In game it's auto, but still really cool thing.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

I would like a solution to this as well... especially when you force land on land!!!!!!! I just want to be able to run away from my burning wreck and pick some flowers...  

and then storm the nearest airfield..... 

 

But really, it’s maddening ditching properly in the water only to watch yourself go down with the ship... especially if it’s on the beach ?

 

[marklar]

On 13/04/2018 at 2:53 PM, RedKestrel said:

Ideally I think I'd like to see some kind of % chance of survival based on distance from shore, distance from friendly naval units, season, etc. But I think it would always be slim...

 

I landed 10m from the coast line. There was a beach, not bloody cliffs of dover. My pilot still died. 

The survival chance can be calculated like the game currently does calculate capture chances. 

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

29 minutes ago, marklar said:

 

I landed 10m from the coast line. There was a beach, not bloody cliffs of dover. My pilot still died. 

The survival chance can be calculated like the game currently does calculate capture chances. 

This^.   

 

Especially when hen it’s a small river....

[Lusekofte]

On 13.4.2018 at 12:19 PM, 56RAF_Roblex said:

That video is from the Battle Of Britain.

That is IL 2 Sturmovik Cliffs over Dover, and if you choose outside view this is how it looks.

I am not sure when the air sea rescue was organized in UK, but I always believed and heard and read there was one during Battle of Britain. The Walrus was operational , and one of the pilots there was a NCO pilot dumped there for being drunk on service. I know they got fast patrol boats also, but not sure if they operated in that time

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, marklar said:

I landed 10m from the coast line. There was a beach, not bloody cliffs of dover. My pilot still died. 

The survival chance can be calculated like the game currently does calculate capture chances. 

LOL. One time I crashlanded on the coast in the sand. My aircraft sank into the sand and I was dead.

[354thFG_Leifr]

2 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

That is IL 2 Sturmovik Cliffs over Dover, and if you choose outside view this is how it looks.

I am not sure when the air sea rescue was organized in UK, but I always believed and heard and read there was one during Battle of Britain. The Walrus was operational , and one of the pilots there was a NCO pilot dumped there for being drunk on service. I know they got fast patrol boats also, but not sure if they operated in that time

 

It was barely operational during the Battle of Britain, very few RAF pilots who took a dunk in the Channel came back out in any reasonable condition. The German aircrew even had a nickname for the dread that would encompass the body during a cross Channel flight and they were the force with an acceptable (read, competent) ASR component.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Leifr

[56RAF_Roblex]

4 hours ago, marklar said:

 

I landed 10m from the coast line. There was a beach, not bloody cliffs of dover. My pilot still died. 

The survival chance can be calculated like the game currently does calculate capture chances. 

 

I have drowned landing inland 100yds from a river.   I was told nothing could be done to stop such events as a tile is either land or water and when it has a river it counts as water.

[Arfsix]

     As a commercial helicopter pilot flying for the oil and gas industry, the majority of my flights were offshore over water up to 150 miles from land. If you survived an emergency landing (crash) with little or no injury and were able to get clear of the sinking aircraft, water temperature became the most critical survival factor.

     Most commercial helicopters did not carry life rafts so in water temperatures below 60 degrees F (northeastern United States, Canada, North Sea), passengers and crew were required to wear "Poopy Suits" (exposure suits) during the flight to increase water survival times!

 

http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm

Expected Survival Time in Cold Water

Water Temperature	Exhaustion or Unconsciousness in	Expected Survival Time
70–80° F (21–27° C)	3–12 hours	3 hours – indefinitely
60–70° F (16–21° C)	2–7 hours	2–40 hours
50–60° F (10–16° C)	1–2 hours	1–6 hours
40–50° F (4–10° C)	30–60 minutes	1–3 hours
32.5–40° F (0–4° C)	15–30 minutes	30–90 minutes
<32° F (<0° C)	Under 15 minutes	Under 15–45 minutes

[marklar]

No one is arguing that survival chances are nearly zero when you land in the middle of the ocean/sea. Problem is in this game a little stream is as deadly as the Pacific.

[PatrickAWlson]

Solution is to change the default to survival and then code for exceptions: i.e. land in water with no land tiles  adjacent = death.  This prevents annoying stupidity, especially in an iron man campaign, and results in death in more plausible situations.

[Godspeed]

Edited April 18, 2018 by Godspeed
First Rule do not panic be like this guy.

[IckyATLAS]

3 hours ago, Godspeed said:

Can they swim?

[Godspeed]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

Can they swim?

Anything is possible

Edited April 18, 2018 by Godspeed

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Lol they really need to bring back custom faces lol....

but just for the pilot, it’s weird seeing the whole crew as the same person   

 

simple lifejackets that just keep the character above water like this would be fine in my books... 

and it would be nice to have a float plane...

 

here we are asking what the survivability out in the deep blue would be but being in multiplayer, we could request a pickup... 

sort of a side objective that pops up on map,...

the player could despawn but an objective is created...

but what planes would be used...

 

 

Uhhhhgg night shift... mind... rambling.... 

[Junjun_Nikurasu]

I know its late, but I wanted bring up a little detail on why we keep dying in the water:

 

December 19, 2016; Update 2.006

 

"Other changes:

44. Paratroopers and bailed out pilots can drown."

 

Believe or not the word "drown" will always been 100% (wait forget it; will always been 1,000%) of the time we hit the water.  Yeah think about it, not because of lack of safety jackets (all no) its because its part of the update.

 

Just wanna point out that all.

[Yogiflight]

Recently I exited the mission before my pilot hit the water, and survived. I don't know however, if this was a bug, or if it works always.

[Junjun_Nikurasu]

On 5/5/2018 at 8:25 PM, Yogiflight said:

Recently I exited the mission before my pilot hit the water, and survived. I don't know however, if this was a bug, or if it works always.

 

Hi there, sorry its been forever since I'd reply anything on this subject.  But I believe that whether or not it works that way, if its a bug there need to be a way to reported it.  Or if it does works that way, it need to be fix and updated.  What ever the case it be temp., rivers and ocean depths or it term of speed and motion.  Pilots need to have a chance to survived in rivers and ocean by swimming and for paratroopers (even with weight down equipment) have at least a chance to survived landing in rivers or beaches with airborne life jackets.

[Cybermat47]

On 4/13/2018 at 8:51 PM, dburne said:

The moral of the story:

Don't bail out over water. At least for now.

 

 

Or click the “finish mission” button before you reach the surface 

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

7 minutes ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

 

Or click the “finish mission” button before you reach the surface 

This is.. the.. only... way........................!?

[Cpt_Cool]

Yeah in an iron man career I found out the hard way you can also die if your parachute lands in a tall tree. (Okay, so I hit Alt+F4 because i am weak).