Can someone please explain difference between the developers' new career mode and PWCG?

[Sky_Wolf]

I'm not seeing any threads on this topic.

 

I understand that the new career mode has lots of aesthetic features (pilot pictures and biographies, interface) but as far as functionality is concerned, the new career mode and PWCG are identical in my mind:

-You are a pilot who fights with a squadron during WWII

-As you fly missions, time progresses and you can eventually end up in a new theatre (e.g. Moscow - Stalingrad - Kuban) (this is planned for PWCG 3.4)

-Missions are generated semi-randomly

-?

 

So maybe it has something to do with how the missions are generated, and the types of missions? 

 

Why would someone spend time playing PWCG now that the new career mode is here? This is an honest question. 

 

 

[sniperton]

10 minutes ago, Pericles said:

Why would someone spend time playing PWCG now that the new career mode is here? This is an honest question.

PWCG is highly customizable, just to name one reason. You can select what type of mission you prefer, in what weather, at what altitude, against what skill level of the enemy, etc, etc.

[71st_AH_Rob_XR-R]

Why not try both and make up your mind? It doesn't cost anything but a bit of your time.

[TheSNAFU]

I find PWCG significantly more flexible and customizable. Don't like the mission, scrub it , don't like the pilots you will fly with, change or add to them. Don't like the mix of missions your getting change the mix%. This is just a few ways they differ. Also speaking for myself the game runs terrible in career with slo mo for no reason and stuttering. Hopefully they improve career and address the performance and other aspects. 

[Bando]

There is another difference;

PWCG can be played offline.

[PatrickAWlson]

At the core you are correct, they are in the same mold. 

 

To the original question: what are the differences?  I'm not really sure.  I have not had the chance to play with the new campaign much, and I'm really not the best source for that opinion anyway.

 

One thing that I have always been adamant about is that PWCG missions will not spawn aircraft at fixed points.  The AI planes fly a mission virtually.  You can fly the same PWCG mission and get entirely different results based not just on where you fly but WHEN you get to a certain point.  Not sure how aircraft  are spawned in the 1C campaign.

Ability to customize configuration has been mentioned.  PWCG can be optimized for air to air or air to ground campaigns. 

In PWCG you fly a contiguous career with the same squadron mates.  AI squadron mates develop and improve over time.  Not sure how the 1C campaign handles this.

PWCG can be flown offline.  The 1C campaign needs a connection.

PWCG can be used for coop careers (admittedly it is not optimized for this).

 

Those are a few things.  There are certainly many more. 

 

Really the answer to "which one" comes down to opinion.  Pick one, pick the other, use both, it's all good.  They are not competing products.

 

 

[dburne]

I heartily would recommend using both, as they each shine in their own ways.

As a SP only guy, this is ideal for me.

[Columbar]

Carrier mode has two or three missions in one day. PWCG has only one.

[SwallowFire]

First and foremost many thanks to pat who made this awesome add-on to il2.

 

I have tried both and have to say that both are fantastic. I especially like the debriefing part of pwcg which the career mode doesn't have. But having to tab in and out and to delete the mission log files every now and then is kinda annoying sometimes.

 

I've got one more question on this topic though: in terms of mission variety, which one is better. I heard that the devs have implemented some 25 mission types and plan to add another 15. Not sure how pwcg handles it.

[Leon_Portier]

There they 

1 hour ago, SwallowFire said:

I've got one more question on this topic though: in terms of mission variety, which one is better. I heard that the devs have implemented some 25 mission types and plan to add another 15. Not sure how pwcg handles it.

Well PWCG seems to have nine for fighters, there used to be a mission type options slot for bombers too but I cant find it anymore.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Leon_Portier

[SwallowFire]

On 3/29/2018 at 2:55 PM, Feathered_IV said:

It looks like there are quite a few yet to be added, however I found what appears to be the full list in one of the packed files as I was working on a mod.

 

MissionTypes
{
 101 = "Intercept bombers";
 102 = "Intercept ground attack aircraft";
 103 = "Intercept cargo aircraft";
 151 = "Escort bombers";
 152 = "Escort ground attack aircraft";
 153 = "Escort cargo aircraft";
 201 = "Enemy column attack";
 202 = "Enemy artillery position attack";
 203 = "Enemy train attack";
 204 = "Enemy airfield attack";
 301 = "Ground troops support";
 331 = "Cargo delivery";
 332 = "Cargo supply drop";
 351 = "Special mission squad paradrop";
 401 = "Enemy artillery positions bombing strike";
 402 = "Enemy railway station bombing strike";
 403 = "Enemy airfield bombing strike";
 404 = "Enemy supply dump bombing strike";
 405 = "Enemy bridge bombing strike";
 701 = "Skirmish";
 702 = "Duel";
 703 = "Free flight";

 1101 = "Intercept bombers";
 1102 = "Intercept ground attack aircraft";
 1103 = "Intercept reconnaissance aircraft";
 1104 = "Intercept transport aircraft";
 1121 = "Area patrol";
 1122 = "Ground troops cover";
 1123 = "Free hunt";
 1124 = "Ships cover";
 1125 = "Ferry cover";
 1151 = "Escort bombers";
 1152 = "Escort ground attack aircraft";
 1153 = "Escort transport aircraft";
 1154 = "Escort reconnaissance aircraft";
 1155 = "Escort artillery spotter";
 1201 = "Enemy transport column attack";
 1202 = "Enemy armor column attack";
 1203 = "Enemy artillery position attack";
 1204 = "Enemy frontline attack";
 1205 = "Enemy railway junction attack";
 1206 = "Enemy airfield attack";
 1207 = "Search and destroy";
 1208 = "Attack enemy ferry crossing";
 1209 = "Enemy troops concentration area attack";
 1301 = "Advancing troops support";
 1302 = "Defense lines support";
 1401 = "Battlefield reconnaissance";
 1402 = "Communication lines reconnaissance";
 1403 = "Photo reconnaissance";
 1501 = "Enemy artillery positions bombing strike";
 1502 = "Enemy frontline strong point bombing strike";
 1503 = "Enemy troops concentration bombing strike";
 1504 = "Enemy airfield bombing strike";
 1505 = "Enemy ferry bombing strike";
 1506 = "Enemy railway junction bombing strike";
 1507 = "Enemy supply dump bombing strike";
 1508 = "Enemy bridge bombing strike";
 1601 = "Cargo delivery";
 1602 = "Cargo paradrop";
 1603 = "Special mission squad paradrop";
 1901 = "Relocate";
 1902 = "Moving out";
}

I found a list of mission types in the career. I would categorize them into intercept, area patrol, cover, escort, ground attack, ground support and bombing. In comparison cover, ground support is probably missing in pwcg for fighters. But in career mode there's no scramble mission.

 

[PatrickAWlson]

An exact comparison is a little difficult.  Example: PWCG has ground attack, and then offers a target. The 1C campaign separates each target type into its own mission type.  The two things that I see in the 1C list not done by PWCG are recon and ferry. 

 

 1401 = "Battlefield reconnaissance";
 1402 = "Communication lines reconnaissance";
 1403 = "Photo reconnaissance";

Since photography is not a thing in Great Battles (it is in RoF) I'm not sure what a recon mission looks like.  Did they add photography?

 

 1901 = "Relocate";
 1902 = "Moving out";

Ferry was discussed a bit in another thread.

 

With some new variations in bomber and cargo missions I want to add user controllable odds back for bombers and cargo.  At the moment mission creation odds are embedded inthe code for everything except fighters.

[SwallowFire]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

An exact comparison is a little difficult.  Example: PWCG has ground attack, and then offers a target. The 1C campaign separates each target type into its own mission type.  The two things that I see in the 1C list not done by PWCG are recon and ferry. 

 

 1401 = "Battlefield reconnaissance";
 1402 = "Communication lines reconnaissance";
 1403 = "Photo reconnaissance";

Since photography is not a thing in Great Battles (it is in RoF) I'm not sure what a recon mission looks like.  Did they add photography?

 

 1901 = "Relocate";
 1902 = "Moving out";

Ferry was discussed a bit in another thread.

 

With some new variations in bomber and cargo missions I want to add user controllable odds back for bombers and cargo.  At the moment mission creation odds are embedded inthe code for everything except fighters.

You are absolutely right about 1c deviding different targets into different types. So I guess the variety is pretty much the same between the two.

 

Btw the first half of the list is the ones that have been implemented. And the second half is all mission types that the devs plan to implement.

 

But anyways it is remarkable for you to come thus far with pwcg. Great job!

[Skipper-]

Yesterday I flew an 'attack the railway and supplies' mission in IL-2's career mode and then in PWCG in the IL-2 1941.

The PWCG version featured 1 train surrounded by about 8 AA guns on an island.

The IL2 career version featured a train station with a train and a bunch of supply trucks as well as static scenery (crates etc) and some AA for defense.

 

I do not want to complain or compare but, so far in my PWCG career, the ground attack missions have felt a bit empty of scenery with only units that can be destroyed appearing.

Is there an option to add more ground scenery, if that's possible, or is it just the way both modes have been made?

 

The other main draw for me to PWCG is the customisable route and the shorter distances compared to IL-2's career mode, which will often have me fly 80-100km to the target compared to PWCG's 30km. I only have a couple of hours to play so I really appreciate the shorter flight times.

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Skipper-

[unreasonable]

On 5/7/2018 at 2:06 AM, PatrickAWlson said:

An exact comparison is a little difficult.  Example: PWCG has ground attack, and then offers a target. The 1C campaign separates each target type into its own mission type.  The two things that I see in the 1C list not done by PWCG are recon and ferry. 

 

 1401 = "Battlefield reconnaissance";
 1402 = "Communication lines reconnaissance";
 1403 = "Photo reconnaissance";

Since photography is not a thing in Great Battles (it is in RoF) I'm not sure what a recon mission looks like.  Did they add photography?

 

 1901 = "Relocate";
 1902 = "Moving out";

Ferry was discussed a bit in another thread.

 

With some new variations in bomber and cargo missions I want to add user controllable odds back for bombers and cargo.  At the moment mission creation odds are embedded inthe code for everything except fighters.

 

One of the Yak scripted campaigns has a recce mission - Ivan's War?  You had to fly over an area fairly low and find an enemy column.  It was a bit lame, because I got a mission success message despite as usual being oblivious to the marching hordes: I must have flown within some bubble without noticing anything.  No photography or attack needed. 

[Skipper-]

To add to the above, you can also use your own photo for your pilot in a PWCG career..

[Sybreed]

is there AI fighting like in the campaign? For exemple, I know I reached the front line because you usually see tracer rounds of machine guns and tanks and whatnot.

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, Sybreed said:

is there AI fighting like in the campaign? For exemple, I know I reached the front line because you usually see tracer rounds of machine guns and tanks and whatnot.

 

There is ground activity with Germans and Russians fighting each other.  Sometime trains or truck convoys are on the ground whether they are your target or not.  Buildings near the front are often burning, so smoke is a sure sign that you are near the front.

 

As mentioned above, the most significant difference for me is that all flights in the mission are doing their own thing.  I developed a system of virtual waypoints that allows the flights to move without actually spawning until they are sort of close to you.  This makes for a much more dynamic air environment than static spawn points.  In PWCG missions you can get surprised.  You can be merrily attacking a bomber formation for some time, and just when you get complacent an enemy fighter formation finds you and attacks.  This can happen because the enemy flights are actually moving across the map.

 

Play a mission or two as a single player and see what you think.  install is as easy as unzipping it.  Making a campaign takes less than five minutes and making a mission takes seconds.

[dburne]

5 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

There is ground activity with Germans and Russians fighting each other.  Sometime trains or truck convoys are on the ground whether they are your target or not.  Buildings near the front are often burning, so smoke is a sure sign that you are near the front.

 

As mentioned above, the most significant difference for me is that all flights in the mission are doing their own thing.  I developed a system of virtual waypoints that allows the flights to move without actually spawning until they are sort of close to you.  This makes for a much more dynamic air environment than static spawn points.  In PWCG missions you can get surprised.  You can be merrily attacking a bomber formation for some time, and just when you get complacent an enemy fighter formation finds you and attacks.  This can happen because the enemy flights are actually moving across the map.

 

Play a mission or two as a single player and see what you think.  install is as easy as unzipping it.  Making a campaign takes less than five minutes and making a mission takes seconds.

 

I have had that happen to me on more than one occasion lol.

Great stuff!

[JG4_dingsda]

On 5/6/2018 at 9:06 PM, PatrickAWlson said:

Ferry was discussed a bit in another thread.

I have read this one.

One way of adding ferry flights without the hassle of the moving frontlines could look like so:

If you _land_ your plane on another airfield than the one assigned to your squadron, make the next flight a ferry flight of this plane back to the original field (solo); otherwise move the plane to the equipment depo.