Bf-110 Autopilot Question

[Godspeed]

Hello

 

 

Bf-110 E2 & G2 has autopilot.

It works while flying with one engine did it really work like that in real life?

 

Just asking because i could not find mutch info about this specific info anywhere.

Did this feature also work on He-111 & Ju-88 this way?

 

If you have info about this device from some web page would be nice if you share

[Godspeed]

Nobody?

[Hoots]

No idea for definite but if you can trim out manually for a dead engine you should be able to with autopilot?

[InProgress]

I don't know how autopilot really works but if it has something to do with your instruments like horizont etc. It just makes plane stay in correct way, it should work as long as you could keep it that way manually. If damage is too high then it wont work. Just how i understand it.

[Royal_Flight]

In-game it ends up working the same way as auto-level in other aircraft, which is a gamey trick that just holds you straight and level on a constant heading.

 

Not that I'm against auto-level, it's dead handy and I wouldn't want to see it go. 

 

But the actual autopilot on the 88, 111 and 110 are different things altogether in reality, and in-game clicking on the auto-level presses the button or flips the switch and the autopilot lights up. I think I'm reality it has a few other modes, such as a climb-mode which holds a heading but allows vertical movement, and a magnetic bearing that flies to wherever the compass is pointing which can be changed in flight.

 

I'm no expert, someone who knows more than me can chime in but it would be useful to have those features in the aircraft that have them. 

 

And like I said I don't want to see the end of auto-level but it's a borderline arcade, gamey feature to have on aircraft that didn't historically have such a setting, a bit like trim reset.

It's useful but hardly realistic or high-fidelity. 

[Herne]

Not really sure what the question is ? auto pilot is just a game convenience isn't it ? If you feather the prop on the damaged engine, the 110's can fly surprisingly well. the G2 can even climb and not just maintain altitude.

 

When I first started I didn't even know about feathering the props. What a difference !!

Made a vid a while back of my first successful single engine landing in a 110
 

 

[354thFG_Leifr]

8 minutes ago, =FEW=Herne said:

Not really sure what the question is ? auto pilot is just a game convenience isn't it ?

 

 

He's likely referring to the German-specific course autopilot that is present in the BF-110, JU-88 and HE-111. These were functional systems in the real aircraft, not just a game convenience.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Leifr

[AndyJWest]

Regarding WW2 autopilots, I'm not sure that they ever had a proper 'altitude hold' mode or a separate 'climb mode', because as far as I'm aware, they controlled nose up/down pitch attitude rather than altitude. You trimmed the aircraft to the desired state (level flight, climbing or descending) and then turned them on. The linkage between the gyroscope and the elevator servo did the rest: it held the aircraft at the desired pitch attitude. Which would inevitably lead to some deviation from your starting altitude over time, unless you adjusted the pitch setting (or throttles) to compensate. This certainly seems to be how U.S. autopilots worked anyway: the manual for the B-25 says that the autopilot works by "utilizing the indications of the directional control unit and the bank and climb control unit". There isn't any way to set a desired altitude directly. And from photo's I've seen, Luftwaffe autopilots seem to be very similar. 

 

From the B-25 manual:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Godspeed]

Very nice material thanks!

This was very high tech back then.

[ZachariasX]

The Sperry autopilot (as used in the aircraft of the era) is directed by gyroscopes. This means you need to calibrate them first, and you do so by calibrating your artificial horizon and your gyro compass. You can see the evolution of those when looking at the versions installed on the B-17, the Lockheed Constellation and then on the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser.

 

On the B-17 (and B-24), you trim out the aircraft until it flies "hands-off". You also calibrate directional gyro with the compass, plus you're calibrating your artificial horizon. You the engage the servos for elevator/aileron/rudder. Then your AC will fly your currenly set bearing. You turn the directional knob to get to a different bearing to set your course. There are lights indicating the servo operating a respective control surface. If you are trimmed for a flight attitdude other than set by the autopilot, you will see the lights of the correcting control surface lit. You conseqently can easily re-trim for the AC flying "hands-off" to the autopilot. it is the most efficient way. you constantly need to check the variometer to keep the AC at level as its weight is decreasing plus you may need to reduce throttle to maintain the same airspeed.

 

On the Constellation, you don't have the lights indicating the autopilot correcting your trim. But you see to how many degrees you set your elevator. if you set it to 0° and the plane maintains level by itself, you are perfectly trimmed. You also have knobs for bearing and "tilt". The bearing knob you use to set your course, the ailrons you use to keep it level over time. At some point, you will have to re align the gyros. It's still a lot of work compared to today's conveniences. At least one of the pilots cannot "spend his time with the cabin crew" in flight.

 

In the B-377 Straticruiser, you finally have an "altitude hold" button. You calibrate the gyros in the same way and you use the autopilot in the same way during climb and descent, but once you reach cruise altitude, you press "altitude hold" and the plane follows pressure altitude. It's not like what you have in your Bendix stack today, but it is really convenient by now.

 

The picture above shows the "universal controls" for the Sperry. The gyros plus knobs to set how fast the autopilot reacts if the plane gets tilted from desired attitude. Not a knob you use often. This as basic principle.

[=SqSq=switch201]

wait a minute here... so in game is there an autoPilot on planes outside of the Sift+a auto level?

 

It sounds to me like you can use the actual auto pilot function on certain planes but I have never heard of such a thing.

[AndyJWest]

Nope. There is the auto-level, and there is 'hand over control to AI', which will fly the plane, dogfight, and land if you want. Neither resembles an actual autopilot. If you want to know what a WW2-era autopilot is actually like to use, the FSX DC-3 has one: I used it to fly from the UK to Japan via Iceland, Greenland, Canada, Alaska and the Russian far east. I was going to circumnavigate the globe, but having done the hard bit, got bored. As noted above it controls attitude rather than altitude, so you have to adjust it quite frequently if you want to maintain a set height.

[Frenchy56]

The Kurssteuerung is actually modelled in Cliffs of Dover.

[AndyJWest]

16 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

The Kurssteuerung is actually modelled in Cliffs of Dover.

 

It seems to be a 'course steering' autopilot only, with no control over pitch attitude or altitude.

Edited April 13, 2018 by AndyJWest

[Frenchy56]

12 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

It seems to be a 'course steering' autopilot only, with no control over pitch attitude or altitude.

Well, that's what the name says.

[Lusekofte]

13 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

It seems to be a 'course steering' autopilot only, with no control over pitch attitude or altitude.

 

I was under the impression that the German auto pilot system was pretty much similar to modeled in COD. you trim the plane for altitude and enter bomb run you go to 22 witch would keep speed and altitude. Not that I am too well informed, it was kind of a reply once regarding this. Anyway I wish for similar in this simulator. Might not be the correct way, but it sure feel better. In COD you need to help the autopilot in order to get it stable . Like back in the days I was a sailor, the autopilot was not accurate enough to maneuver in tight spots , so we needed to steer it.

[AndyJWest]

5 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

Well, that's what the name says.

 

Yeah, even with my very limited understanding of German I figured that out. Though it wouldn't necessarily mean that the word should be taken literally, any more than describing something as an 'autopilot' means that it is a robot that sits in the pilot's seat (cue obvious Airplane! clip...)

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

Though it wouldn't necessarily mean that the word should be taken literally

Of course you should take it literally, it is used in german military, they rarely write anything in poetry. The word is chosen, so everyone, who has to do with it, immediately knows, what it is about.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

I think its a simple modelling of the auto pilot. It should follow the artificial horizon and keep wings level but I dont think it would give any input to the rudder. Very few auto pilots use the rudder. 

[Yogiflight]

According to what I found on the homepage of 'deutscheluftwaffe.com' under 'Kurssteuerung', it indeed worked with the rudder, while the pilot controlled the elevator and aileron to hold the aircraft horizonzally. The same for changes of heading with the 'Kurssteuerung'. It is also mentioned, that the aircraft should be trimmed in all three axis before using the 'Kurssteuerung.

[danielprates]

On 13/04/2018 at 5:09 AM, Leifr said:

 

He's likely referring to the German-specific course autopilot that is present in the BF-110, JU-88 and HE-111. These were functional systems in the real aircraft, not just a game convenience.

 

Yeah. And in CloD you can operate them realisticly,  a great point scored there by a game of which lots of people have only complaints!