Which 262 Will We Get?

[Blitzen]

Don’t get me wrong,I’ll love to see whatever model of the 262 the developers come up with, but I question how much I’ll actually use it if the old original I’ll-2 Sturmovik is any measure.

  I flew it many times and generally found that it took a great deal of special handling esp. in engine throttle control- engine fires being frequent .I just couldn’t slam the gas on as in say a 109G without immediate severe consequences.

  Also I had to pick & choose how to deploy it. It was pretty effective against bomber formations esp heavy bombers that flew in predictable flight paths ( I.e. straight ahead ) and large formations ( many targets..) but found it utterly useless in fighter vs fighter combat unless one really had the drop on a sleeping squadron of Allied fighters.You simply couldn’t get into any sort of a turning contest.I could easily get away, but AI pilots ALWAYS swa me coming & could break hard just as I came into firing range & unless I got in a lucky shot from one of those big cannons I couldn’t follow them.

  Finally there is a sharp learning curve figuring out how to aim with the gunsight at the higher closing speed that the jets have with potential victims esp slow bomber formations ( read above :my favorite targets...) Things happen quickly ,really quickly! It can be difficult enough flying & shooting with one of the conventional fighters found in BoX, but it will be a whole new deal with the Sturmvogel! I only used the 262 as a bomber a couple of times but ground fire was murder to me on these occasions & in BoX it appears to me to be even more efficient which might be surviving ground attack problematic and hitting targets at these higher speeds “iffy.”

   All this meant to me were a lot fewer victories than I ever expected & I fell back to my favorite mount ,usually the 109Gustav to keep running up my score ( shameless opportunism I know.) I fully expect to do much the same with the much better modeled ( at least eye candy-wise,) BoB 262. Sure I wish it would come soon but I have learned to be careful what you wish for.

  ( and don’t get me started on the Arango 234- beautiful but to me at least useless....to me.)

[Herne]

The fact that it is very different from everything else will I think be part of it's charm. Really looking forward to learning from my own mistakes with it.

 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

If we get the Jumo 004 B-3 engines (which I strongly believe) the throttle should not be dangerous to use since it incooperated a throttle break to prevent it being pushed too quickly and cause trouble.

 

Speed and endurance are going to be vital factors with the 262. Everything else if 'nice to have'.

[Vortice]

Get ready for a loud whining noise heading this way.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, the Mosquito would be a cool 262B Counterpart. Or the B-25 for now, hopefully flyable after all. 

[Asgar]

13 hours ago, raaaid said:

so whats gonna be 262 counterpart?

 

otherwise would be boring

so what counterparts to the 262 did the Allies have in service over the Benelux in the time frame?

[fjacobsen]

12 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Asgar said:

so what counterparts to the 262 did the Allies have in service over the Benelux in the time frame?

 

P-51D or Hawker Tempest cirkling over the ME-262's airfields.

Once they where slow during take of and landing, they where relative easy prey.

Edited May 18, 2018 by fjacobsen

[=621=Samikatz]

2 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Asgar said:

so what counterparts to the 262 did the Allies have in service over the Benelux in the time frame?

 

Meteor F.IIIs of 616sq operated out of Melsbroek since January, with the full squadron moving over in late March, flying ground attack and armed recon missions over German airfields. They were later joined by 504sq though I haven't read about them seeing much action

 

[Asgar]

that would be interesting if there was a source for that

[=621=Samikatz]

7 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Asgar said:

that would be interesting if there was a source for that

 

I've been trying to dig around for a source that gives me more detail than that the planes were there (and there are plenty of photographs), but this is the only one I've found detailing any operations and unfortunately they were quite limited, seeing their first sorties in April.

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DgakDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=gloster+meteor+melsbroek&source=bl&ots=wQFmGd2KPT&sig=gwLBxqGNeB4Cfn5Cadq_w6DtKuI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiF9LvvqI_bAhUmLsAKHYJ2AJw4ChDoAQg2MAE#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

 

The Meteor is an interesting aircraft, but probably not suitable for the Bodenplatte timeframe; the most interesting and significant contribution they made is probably teaching the RAF and USAAF how to deal with jet attacks in training exercises. Maybe some day we'll go to Korea and get the F.8

[Asgar]

well, i guess it applies the same reasoning we got for the G-6 not being part of Kuban. So maybe later as a collector plane

[Trooper117]

There was no Meteor/262 engagements as far as I know... only ground sorties and recce, I'm pretty sure they didn't shoot down any aircraft when over in Belgium.

[saldy]

We need B-17(AI) for Schwalbe.

 

[Trooper117]

Large bomber formations with multiple crew positions are not possible in the game... It has been explained many many times. (Even AI)...

The game would simply lock up or crash.

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Large bomber formations with multiple crew positions are not possible in the game... It has been explained many many times. (Even AI)...

The game would simply lock up or crash.

 

... until they optimize their AI code ...

 

Seriously, there is nothing about the AI that says it cannot be optimized.  That optimization is very much a non trivial task, but there is a major difference between difficult and impossible.  If it reaches a point where future development of the product depends on it then it can happen.

[Trooper117]

Pat, you know there are quite a few of these 'bomber' threads knocking around the forums... and any time that Jason has made a post in them it's always a no...

I guess if it was something they could easily implement they would have done it by now.

God knows I would love to see large bombers in the game, it would be another aspect to it that would draw yet more revenue and customers into the fold... but there is no point to see people getting hyped about it as we all know it's not going to happen... sadly 

[=621=Samikatz]

5 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Asgar said:

well, i guess it applies the same reasoning we got for the G-6 not being part of Kuban. So maybe later as a collector plane

 

The G-6 saw a lot of combat later on, though. The Meteor F.III I think would make a nice counterpart to the Ta-152 if it ever came, both are unique end war "what-if" planes that just barely missed action. If they add another jet it should probably be the Ar-234. Ar-234 as a counter-part to the B-25J, Meteor F.III as a counterpart to the Ta-152, and... whatever's left german to match the Spitfire XIV

[RAY-EU]

The 2 anti tanks Prototypes versions :

And the Me 262 A1a/U1 ? Antitank version with 2 MK 103 but only few units were produced , we have constant only just one .

https://es.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrJ6iRz1P9aZZAAY00604lQ;_ylu=X3oDMTIzZGprbnViBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM0ZTJkZTVkMWViOTUzMzM1OGJjMzAxMGY2MDgxODdjNQRncG9zAzIwBGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fes.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dme%2B262%2BA1a%2FU1%26fr%3Dipad%26fr2%3Dpiv-web%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D20&w=1083&h=730&imgurl=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-GWHHLIgAva8%2FTZ5hPurC8dI%2FAAAAAAAABuw%2FmJQ3C-W338A%2Fs1600%2F03.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcombatace.com%2Ftopic%2F65251-ww2-cannons%2F&size=151.1KB&name=WW2+Cannons+-+Military+and+General+Aviation+-+CombatACE&p=me+262+A1a%2FU1&oid=4e2de5d1eb9533358bc3010f608187c5&fr2=piv-web&fr=ipad&tt=WW2+Cannons+-+Military+and+General+Aviation+-+CombatACE&b=0&ni=21&no=20&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11d3hj19u&sigb=1380qkru4&sigi=12fqbklga&sigt=11n1prbno&sign=11n1prbno&.crumb=lQyEQtwh2Pr&fr=ipad&fr2=piv-web

 

And the Me 262 A1/U4 , but 2 prototipes were program finished with a just one 50 mm cannon: 

 

https://es.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrJ3s.e1_9ah9AAx1k604lQ;_ylu=X3oDMTIzMmEwYmlyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAMwMmMxZjY1ZDIzODhkOWU0NDJlNjhjOWI0NjRlYjc5MgRncG9zAzI0BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fes.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dme%2B262%2B50%2Bmm%2Bcanon%26n%3D60%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Dipad%26fr2%3Dsb-top-es.images.search.yahoo.com%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D24&w=950&h=330&imgurl=i.imgur.com%2Fus6lU5I.jpg&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FWarplanePorn%2Fcomments%2F378zw7%2Fone_of_two_me262_a1u4_pulkzerst%C3%B6rer_bomber%2F&size=133.1KB&name=One+of+two+ME<%2Fb>-262<%2Fb>+A-1%2FU4+%26quot%3BPulkzerstörer%26quot%3B+bomber+destroyer+...&p=me+262+50+mm+canon&oid=02c1f65d2388d9e442e68c9b464eb792&fr2=sb-top-es.images.search.yahoo.com&fr=ipad&tt=One+of+two+ME<%2Fb>-262<%2Fb>+A-1%2FU4+%26quot%3BPulkzerstörer%26quot%3B+bomber+destroyer+...&b=0&ni=108&no=24&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=136ris42b&sigb=14j1a9tq4&sigi=10n4si7h6&sigt=12m1tu16n&sign=12m1tu16n&.crumb=lQyEQtwh2Pr&fr=ipad&fr2=sb-top-es.images.search.yahoo.com

Edited May 19, 2018 by RAY-EU

[PatrickAWlson]

On 5/18/2018 at 3:06 PM, Trooper117 said:

Pat, you know there are quite a few of these 'bomber' threads knocking around the forums... and any time that Jason has made a post in them it's always a no...

I guess if it was something they could easily implement they would have done it by now.

God knows I would love to see large bombers in the game, it would be another aspect to it that would draw yet more revenue and customers into the fold... but there is no point to see people getting hyped about it as we all know it's not going to happen... sadly 

 

Based on hearsay that I have picked up their AI guy left the company.  They have obviously been working the AI, so somebody is on it, but maybe they are nervous about the kind of overhaul that this would require.  What they are doing seems sensible.  They are tackling what they have to in order to make the next product work.  Improved terrain avoidance needed by the Kuban map is a prime example. 

 

As long as they can get away with avoiding a major refactoring of the AI they are going to do it.  I suspect that at some point, assuming a long life for this product, they are going to have to tackle AI performance and bring it up a notch or two.  We'll just have to wait and see what the future brings.

[TheSNAFU]

Interesting Pat. I feel the AI is an increasingly difficult issue to ignore. The game has impressively improved in almost every area other than AI which has been more tweaked than improved.  I don't know their internal situations but aside from that I hope they get some attention on the AI. Here's ta hoping. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by TheSNAFU

[hames123]

I think I read somewhere that the Meteor shot down a few German aircraft? There was never a jet vs jet engagement though, they tried to tempt the 262s into the air to fight them but they never came. 

 

As for bombers, how about B-26s? Large formations of them heading to pulverise a German town that has a few MGs and AT guns in it would make a good target for ME 262s. But can you please stop them from turning away when you complete the mission by shooting down the required number of bombers? It makes little to no sense, especially when they are near to the target. They should do a calculation. Time to target, number of planes left in formation, damage sustained to lead plane etc, to decided if they want to keep going. Because I have seen bombers turn back only a minute until they can drop just because you completed the mission by killing a bomber, which is silly. 

 

One more thing. Fighters need to be more accurate. I am not asking for laser accuracy, but often they just spray shells over or under you, and make no effort to correct that. It makes bomber escort a farce since you see ME 109s getting right behind the PE-2s, firing a long burst that misses completely, and then getting downed by the gunners.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, hames123 said:

I think I read somewhere that the Meteor shot down a few German aircraft?

 

Whatever you read was wrong.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Whatever you read was wrong.

Technically V1s are aircraft

[LukeFF]

20 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

Technically V1s are aircraft

 

Not hardly.

[Haza]

7 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Not hardly.

 

Well if you meant a Fieseler Fi 103R Reichenberg then I would have said probably yes, however, none of these were shot down by Meteors, that I know of!!

Edited May 20, 2018 by Haza

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

34 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Not hardly.

Yes it is

27 minutes ago, Haza said:

 

Well if you meant a Fieseler Fi 103R Reichenberg then I would have said probably yes, however, none of these were shot down by Meteors, that I know of!!

UAV and cruise missiles are also aircraft

Edited May 20, 2018 by RoflSeal

[Livai]

Vulching poking around with eight 30mm cannons and four Jumbo jet engines, - is this not great - initiate plane-separation to finishing the job with a 3500kg explosion over target....

[Haza]

On 04/05/2018 at 8:05 AM, sevenless said:

 

Danger! Johannes Steinhoff was happy to survive, though badly burned.

 

Just read his account of the accident. He was very fortunate to have survived. The rockets from his aircraft were exploding  around him as he rolled around on the ground trying to put the fire out as he was engulfed in flames.

[AndyJWest]

4 hours ago, RoflSeal said:

Technically V1s are aircraft

 

Yeah, but they cheat. They use auto-level. 

[ZachariasX]

5 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Yeah, but they cheat. They use auto-level. 

Or Hanna.

Spoiler

 

[LukeFF]

13 hours ago, RoflSeal said:

Yes it is

UAV and cruise missiles are also aircraft

 

 

I'd like to know what aviation organization classifies cruise missiles as aircraft. I'll be here waiting.

[Legioneod]

20 hours ago, hames123 said:

I think I read somewhere that the Meteor shot down a few German aircraft? There was never a jet vs jet engagement though, they tried to tempt the 262s into the air to fight them but they never came. 

 

As for bombers, how about B-26s? Large formations of them heading to pulverise a German town that has a few MGs and AT guns in it would make a good target for ME 262s. But can you please stop them from turning away when you complete the mission by shooting down the required number of bombers? It makes little to no sense, especially when they are near to the target. They should do a calculation. Time to target, number of planes left in formation, damage sustained to lead plane etc, to decided if they want to keep going. Because I have seen bombers turn back only a minute until they can drop just because you completed the mission by killing a bomber, which is silly. 

 

One more thing. Fighters need to be more accurate. I am not asking for laser accuracy, but often they just spray shells over or under you, and make no effort to correct that. It makes bomber escort a farce since you see ME 109s getting right behind the PE-2s, firing a long burst that misses completely, and then getting downed by the gunners.

 

B-26 would be a logical choice(better than the B-25), a good medium bomber with only a handful of positions that would fit perfectly in this scenario. I imagine the only reason they chose the B-25 is that it fit better with the Pacific, otherwise the B-26 would be the better choice.

 

I don't plan on flying the 262 that much as I don't feel it would be very useful, I do plan on shooting plenty down however.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Legioneod

[AndyJWest]

33 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

 

I'd like to know what aviation organization classifies cruise missiles as aircraft. I'll be here waiting.

 

I'm quite sure that if a private individual tried to fly one without permission, they'd be liable for prosecution under regulations concerning unmanned aircraft. Not that it matters really, since what people describe the V1 as now is of no real significance. It certainly wasn't called that at the time.

[Blitzen]

Re.:B-26.I believe there was one instance when 262’s did catch a formation of B-26’s on a Tactical mission & dispatched several of them in one of the more successful German jet missions late in the war.

[ZachariasX]

16 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

 

I'd like to know what aviation organization classifies cruise missiles as aircraft. I'll be here waiting.

If you want to operate one for home use, you gotta ask the FAA first. That takes care of it.

[LukeFF]

16 hours ago, Legioneod said:

B-26 would be a logical choice(better than the B-25), a good medium bomber with only a handful of positions that would fit perfectly in this scenario. I imagine the only reason they chose the B-25 is that it fit better with the Pacific, otherwise the B-26 would be the better choice.

 

They chose the B-25, because it fits the map and the timeframe.

[Trooper117]

Plus B-25's were stationed at airfields within the Luftwaffe's target list during the Bodenplatte period.

[senseispcc]

A video about war and the Me 262 very real and corrected facts;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JxQhxOJa5U

 

 

[303_Bies]

 

Nice moody mission. Look at 21:54  ?

 

262 is such a slick beast. One and only. It will be gerat to have it modelled with IL2 level of accuracy.

Me262 with new mechanics like near Mach physics, manual fuel tanks, oxyhen support etc.  is - alone - worth the money of BoBP.

And the vibey campaign when Luftwaffe was fighting agains whole world striking from all sides and allied planes are attacking the airfields with huge numerical advantage and the smallest mistake means it's over.

IDK why but i always liked to play the side which don't have a chance.

 

cheers and keep the fingers crossed for Bodenplatte and dev team?

Edited June 24, 2018 by bies