svmapper and DIY panel - cannot distinguish between Lshift, Rshift and so on...

[jokerBR]

Hi guys, I just finished my first "button box" panel project, and now I'm struggling to make it function as intended with BoX/RoF.

Besides 5 sliders/rotaries, I use 10 switches, six of them being the 3-position type. I'm trying to use svmapper to send different keys when the switch is toggled on and off, or, in some cases, the same key - and this is when things go wrong.

Most of the commands in BoX/RoF uses left/right (shift, control, alt) to distinguish them, so commands like LShift+A and RShift+A can be assigned to different functions inside the game. 

Unfortunately, BoX/RoF are interpreting keys sent by svmapper as the "same shift" (or in some cases, no shift at all - seeing all as "a"). 

 

If someone knows a way to consistently differentiate between special keys (shift/control/alt) regarding left-right press and svmapper (or other app with the same goal), I greatly appreciate any hints. The alternative so far seems to be a complete reprogram of all functions inside the game to avoid any kind of left/right combos, but this would consume a lot of time, not to mention the headache in finding new suitable/exclusive combinations.

 

Cheers

 

EDIT: Forget svmapper. Using Joystick Gremlin with success for several months now. For me, it's the best app for switch boxes.

Edited September 3, 2019 by jokerBR
typos

[Sokol1]

Use Joy2key.

 

In Joy2Key assignment window press LShif or RShif result in "Shift" that press both R or LShift - what for game commands don't make difference, will work fine.

 

Example, you define a button for be "Shift" this button became valid for any RShif+A or LShift+A (etc) command, but this can became inconvenient for a specific toggle switch (your case).

 

If you want restring to one type (R or LShift) instead press an key (R or LShift) right click in the assignment window and select R or LShift the pop-up menu.

 

https://s18.postimg.cc/xv7r2ym09/Joy2_Key_shift.jpg

 

Notice that Joy2Key don't work with LWin (key) and RWin.

 

Quote

(or in some cases, no shift at all - seeing all as "a"). 

 

For this case you need add a pause between the press of R or LShift and the press of  A, needing a more advanced keymapper than Joy2Key. 

 

Xpadder ($10 but less in BRL) allow this - but their interface is a bit cumbersome initially.

 

Or Joystick Gremlin.

 

Regarding SVMapper, you select "YES" in the box "Continuous"?

 

I test assigning in SVMapper 2 joy buttons to press LShift+A and RShift+A and in controls map LShift+A for fire MG',  RShift+A for Fire cannons, and work OK, only the weapons mapped in a give button is fired.

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Sokol1

[Sokol1]

Quote

...

(or in some cases, no shift at all - seeing all as "a"). 

 

Just in case try this,  instead map in Joy2Key

 

LShift

A

 

map 

 

A

LShift

 

For what I test there in that way "AI-Autopilot for Level Flight" ( for test I map in key "a") is not engaged when I press the button for fire MG's - mapped in game for LShift+A.

 

But in Joy2Key I map for fire Cannons:

 

RShift

A

 

And in that case  the "AI_Autopilot for Level Flight" is engaged together when I fire Cannons.

 

In Notepad, when I press the button for A+LShift I see "A", what indicates that that LShift is pressed first than "a". 

 

When I press the button for RShift+A I see "a" what indicates that "a'" is pressed first, why the "AI-Autopilot..." is engaged together. 

 

SVMapper don't allow map the keys inverted, if type A first then LShift this is not recognized, and LShift+A are engaging the "AI-Autopilot for Level..." and since don't allow set delay between keys press is not option or your "switch panel".

 

If this fail, time to try Joystick Gremlin.

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Sokol1

[jokerBR]

Thanks Sokol.

Regarding "yes" on "continuous" box, I'm not using it when trying to make on/off switches - otherwise it doesn't work for some reason. A curiosity about svmapper: I'm forced to make repeat=2 to recognize one keypress. Also tried with JoyToKey but it doesn't work correctly on on/off scenarios (don't send the second key for some reason when alternating between input2->input1 on press/relelase. I've submitted a request on his site).

Will try your suggestions and do some tests, then report back (but only next week as I'm travelling and away from my desk until Monday). 

Thanks for the "Joystick Gremlin" tip too, will check (haven't heard about). 

 

Cheers

[Sokol1]

In Joy2Key, for use a toggle (ON-OFF) switch don't use alternating (switch rotation), but tick the box:

 

https://s17.postimg.cc/aovvb5b3j/Joy2key_on_off.jpg

 

Example: for Navigation Lights assign "L" in both windows, so switch up - lights ON, switch down - lights OFF.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by Sokol1

[jokerBR]

Hi Sokol,

 

I received a special build of JoyToKey (beta) to test the on/off feature when a key is the same at both ends (i.e., LShift+A when on, and the same LShift+A when off) but although the software works ok on notepad (always seeing A and A - on/off), inside the game any command for the off position isn't recognized. 

Svmapper has a (somewhat) better result at this, mainly due to the fact that I can force repeating keys. 

The results that I have so far points to something like "you need an odd number of keypresses for the game to register them" (it seems to register only odd keys for every pair you press). 

Example: 

Using a switch with 3 positions (up/middle/down), where "up" position is button7, and "down" position is button8, (middle being both off) I program JoyToKey to send:

A (autopilot) when button7 is on (up position) and A when it is turned off (go back to middle position).

LShift+A (level flight) when button8 is on (switch on down position), and LShift+A when it is turned off (go back to middle position)

In DCS this works like a charm, and I can choose whatever commands I wish, but in BoX and RoF (hence I suspect something with the game's engine), the results are the following:

 

1. Switch toggled to DOWN position (game sees LShift+A and activates level flight)

2. Switch toggled to middle position (game doesn't register Lshift+A and level flight stays active)

3. Switch toggled to UP position (game deactivates level flight, but doesn't activate autopilot - odd, because I just sent "a", and not Lshift+a)

4. Switch toggle to middle position (game activates autopilot - this time it recognizes the "a" command, and now everything is "out-of-sync")

 

It's all messed up, with "on/off" positions becoming "out of sync" really fast. It seems that the game is "swallowing" keys in the process, so it may be something related to timing (reinforced by the fact that svmapper is a little bit more successful due to the "repeat=" option - but in that case the LShift part is never recognized, and I have to remap all the functions not to have special keys like L or R Ctrl, Shift, Alt...)

 

So, to sum all up: 

For DCS JoyToKey works perfectly. For BoX/RoF you need a software capable of discerning L and R special keys and also capable to play them inserting specific "wait timing". Will take a look into Joystick Gremlin. I'm really curious if someone else is using DIY panels with BoX successfully, and if so, what are they using.

[jokerBR]

Well, on Joystick Gremlin I cannot make it see the "release" key, no matter what. Tried with remaping, macros, etc. Opened a "ticket" asking if the feature is still working (it was removed on v8 and supposedly restored in v9, but we are now on v10). Waiting for the dev to answer.

 

EDIT: answered: must use "macro" instead of "remap", and use "action" on conditions, to monitor press / release of the virtual button. In this way, Joystick Gremlin is able to work ok with BoX/RoF (must manage the timings inside the macro, though - mostly not needed on other sims).

 

So far, tried svmapper, Joy2Key, Joystick Gremlin (and another one that I don't recall the name). Not a single one worked flawlessly with BoX/RoF. Still haven't tested Xpadder, but judging by the former experience, I'm not holding my breath. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by jokerBR
solved!

[Sokol1]

I don't test with "autopilot"  - I don't see purpose for this command, is against the spirit of "flight simulator/game".

 

But in my test with "AI-autopilot for level flight" in "A" and MG's in LShift+A ending work OK with Joy2Key.

 

Well to keep things simple, if the issue is only with autopilot, you will find another key for map this instead 'a' - are several keys assigned for things useless, like arrow keys assigned for "fly by keyboard". 

 

The registered version of XPadder ( 23.99 BRL) allow use pause between keys press, 'ON press' and 'ON release' need be done through macros.

 

What USB controller your are using in the "switch panel"?

 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Sokol1

[jokerBR]

Hi Sokol. Sure! Of course the point is not to use this with autopilot, I completely agree that this is not what a true sim is about. My plan is to use those extra switches on my panel to operate CEM and weaponry (bombing setup, etc), using way more "complicated" combos, including timing and several functions "in-a-row" for every switch, but as I found out, autopilot and level flight were two "simple and similar commands" that were showing problems, with the added bonus that they are quick to test (just start the sim and engage to "see" the result). Also, my motto is "if you want to test something to be "bullet proof", start attacking were it is flawed". After figuring out how to solve this one, I would consequently have the knowledge to solve all others. 

Also, the point was to solve the problem once and for all, not to find a shortcut by changing the original commands (i.e., avoiding using L or R shift/control keys, etc). 

 

I ended up solving the problem using Joystick Gremlin (thanks to you). After contacting WhiteMagic (Joystick Gremlin's dev), he pointed out how to do it and I figured out the rest 

Basically, I had to use macros to mimic the keypresses instead of simply "mapping" the key combo to a switch ( I found out that the timing options like the pause between key press and release and also Macro Count = 1 with 0,30 delay are *very* important when sending commands to BoX/RoF):

 

and for condition just use "Actions" for press and release:

 

My USB controller is "tailor made" for this panel, developed and built by the same guy that made all the cutting and mounting, João Augusto Casa (or JACSim). You surely wont find it on the broad market. He builds complete sets to emulate full size 737 cabins (occupying a small room), with *all* digital screens, switches, gauges, lights, alarms, buttons, etc working - just like real life). One of his cabin sets is at a local flight school, and some flight companies even use them to re-check pilots from time to time! 

Few days ago I told him that you were helping me and asked if he knew you (as I understand, you're a Brazilian too, right?), but unfortunately he didn't. Our small niche of "hardcore aviation enthusiasts" isn't so small after all... 

 

Cheers.

Edited April 4, 2018 by jokerBR
Trying to delete double image post. Unsuccessful.

[Sokol1]

Quote

My USB controller is "tailor made" for this panel,...

 

I ask this because is possible that USB controller have this "ON PRESS" and "ON RELEASE" in firmware and so avoid the need of use of keymapper.

 

Other desirable feature is that the USB controller don't held an toggle switch always ON - the games don't expect this, but just send a momentary press when toggle for ON or OFF.

 

LynX 'CUB' firmware for Arduinos do this:

 

http://lynx.dk/cub-firmware/

 

But unfortunately most of other USB joystick controllers no, making necessary the use of awkward keymapper's (convenient in some cases).

 

Anyway good support from White Magic, I have seem people say good things about Joystick Gremlin. 

 

BTW - Joystick Gremlin interface looks ways more friendly than XPadder. 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Sokol1

[jokerBR]

15 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

 

I ask this because is possible that USB controller have this "ON PRESS" and "ON RELEASE" in firmware and so avoid the need of use of keymapper.

 

Other desirable feature is that the USB controller don't held an toggle switch always ON - the games don't expect this, but just send a momentary press when toggle for ON or OFF.

I asked him about including this feature on the firmware when we were planning the panel, but then we would need to wait for his partner (who is the programmer) to redesign the software to include this, and as I was going to use some kind of mapping program anyway, I decided to go "vanilla" and speed things up (reducing costs, too). 

 

I can only agree with your words about WhiteMagic and his tool - I'm just starting to scrap the surface, and although the interface can be improved, Joystick Gremlin is very powerful. Once you get the grip, it is really easy to use, and you start to realize that this is TARGET for the masses. Super!

[jokerBR]

And since we are talking about DIY panels... a picture of one of the full size cabins that I mentioned before (running FSX):