Ground Attack Options

[JughedJughedJones]

Hey Guys, 

 

Bout to get back into Il2 and start up a campaign.  I'm really into ground attack, not so much dogfighting.  

 

Obviously the titular plane is an option, but what other aircraft are fun for this role?  

 

Thanks!

[Finkeren]

Bf 110E1 and G2

 

Hs 129B2

 

Fw 190A3 and in particular A5

 

Ju 87D3 especially with BK 3.7

 

P-39L-1

 

A-20B

 

And of course there are 3 very different versions of the IL-2

 

EDIT: And P-40E-1 too.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Finkeren

[JughedJughedJones]

Thanks!  Any you find particularly fun?

[SYN_Luftwaffles]

110 G2 and the HS129 (if you're a real glutton for punishment) the 1943 with the PTAB is amazing if you learn to use them correctly

[Eicio]

Don't forget the PE-2 and JU-88.

[Finkeren]

19 minutes ago, Eicio said:

Don't forget the PE-2 and JU-88.

 

Both are IMHO dedicated level/dives bombers, not what I’d call ground attackers, though you can put rockets on the Pe-2.

 

1 hour ago, JughedJones said:

Thanks!  Any you find particularly fun?

 

Apart from the IL-2-43, which have all the others beat in both effectiveness and fun, I’d say that the Bf 110G2 is my favourite.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

I really like the bf110 g2 for fun and ability the mix it up with other ground attackers that you run into.

 

But for pure ground attack fun, the hs129 with its 30mm really gives a great warthog vibe, minus the durability.

[JughedJughedJones]

Thanks a lot guys! 

 

Unfortunately, while we were discussing this my X52 pro took a dump. 

 

It's been a long time coming, but it's finally screwed the pooch.  

 

When I scrape up enough for another HOTAS, I'll get back on it. 

[Lensman]

I took out 2 artillery pieces, 2 vehicles and 1 machine gun with a bf 109 F4 last night using guns only.

[Royal_Flight]

Try the Pe-2. It's not an armoured CAS monster bristling with cannon, but it's not at all a level bomber either.

It is best for dive bombing from altitude, but it makes for a furious ground attacker as well if used creatively. 

 

Fast, relatively manoeuvreable and can take a fair battering and forward-firing mgs are useful against soft targets.

Take six FAB-100s for the best combination of low drag, low weight and striking power, and they're small enough that you can aim with relative precision at individual targets as you tear past at 50m off the deck. 

[Chief_Mouser]

No-one mentioned the Bf109E-7? The only 'interesting' 109 in the whole bunch - from my perverse 'anything other than a dogfighter' stance.

[Eicio]

8 hours ago, Finkeren said:

Both are IMHO dedicated level/dives bombers, not what I’d call ground attackers, though you can put rockets on the Pe-2.

 

You don't need guns to go CAS, bombs and precision (dive bombing) are enough.

[No105_Swoose]

6 hours ago, Royal_Flight said:

Try the Pe-2. It's not an armoured CAS monster bristling with cannon, but it's not at all a level bomber either.

It is best for dive bombing from altitude, but it makes for a furious ground attacker as well if used creatively. 

 

Fast, relatively manoeuvreable and can take a fair battering and forward-firing mgs are useful against soft targets.

Take six FAB-100s for the best combination of low drag, low weight and striking power, and they're small enough that you can aim with relative precision at individual targets as you tear past at 50m off the deck. 

S R_F! Thanks for your thoughts about the Peshka.  They've made me want to check out, especially in dive bomber mode in which it excelled in RL.  I've never flown the Pe-2 in IL-2: BoX except as a tail gunner a few times.  My favorite plane for mud moving is the IL-2 mod 1943.  I'm currently enjoying a career with the A-20 but will try the Pe-2 for CAS after that.

 

[CanadaOne]

I'm a purist. The IL2-41 with a full load of how-do-you-do.

 

Then load up on ground targets and see how much you can take out before you run dry.

 

 

[SYN_Luftwaffles]

12 hours ago, JughedJones said:

Thanks a lot guys! 

 

Unfortunately, while we were discussing this my X52 pro took a dump. 

 

It's been a long time coming, but it's finally screwed the pooch.  

 

When I scrape up enough for another HOTAS, I'll get back on it. 

Check out VKB joysticks via x-plane.org store. The Gladiator II that I have has a twist rudder and is modeled after the KG12 grip the German planes use (yes I know they didn't have twist controls in real planes... you know who I'm talking to.)

[ShamrockOneFive]

I can second that the VKB Gladiator (I have the Mark I) is a great stick to fly this sim with. I replaced my X-52 with the Gladiator and I'm still using the X-52 HOTAS until I can find something I like to replace that (maybe VKB's TECS).

[Falkenstein]

5 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

I can second that the VKB Gladiator (I have the Mark I) is a great stick to fly this sim with. I replaced my X-52 with the Gladiator and I'm still using the X-52 HOTAS until I can find something I like to replace that (maybe VKB's TECS).

 

  How does the size of the VKB Gladiator Mark I compare to the X-52?  One reason I went with the X-52 when I replaced my old CH Combatstick is the Combatstick was so large, the X-52 is a much better fit for my hand size.

[Poochnboo]

"It's been a long time coming, but it's finally screwed the pooch"

 

  I beg your pardon?

[JughedJughedJones]

2 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

"It's been a long time coming, but it's finally screwed the pooch"

 

  I beg your pardon?

 

 

Hahahaha

[ShamrockOneFive]

8 hours ago, Falkenstein said:

 

  How does the size of the VKB Gladiator Mark I compare to the X-52?  One reason I went with the X-52 when I replaced my old CH Combatstick is the Combatstick was so large, the X-52 is a much better fit for my hand size.

 

The Gladiator is smaller than the X-52 by a fair bit. I don't have the largest fingers so I could just reach the top of the X-52 comfortably and the Gladiator fits me really well. It's definitely not too large. It may even feel a bit small to you, I'm not sure.

 

Check out my review if you're interested in it: https://stormbirds.blog/2016/12/11/review-vkb-gladiator/

 

My only complaint with the Gladiator is that it maybe doesn't have enough buttons. It works well for IL-2 but less-so for modern sims.

[Frenchy56]

16 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

I'm a purist. The IL2-41 with a full load of how-do-you-do.

 

Then load up on ground targets and see how much you can take out before you run dry.

 

 

If you keep the ShvaK's, the rear view is much better since it isn't hidden by a metal plate. First production models I guess.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Frenchy56

[SYN_Luftwaffles]

22 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

The Gladiator is smaller than the X-52 by a fair bit. I don't have the largest fingers so I could just reach the top of the X-52 comfortably and the Gladiator fits me really well. It's definitely not too large. It may even feel a bit small to you, I'm not sure.

 

Check out my review if you're interested in it: https://stormbirds.blog/2016/12/11/review-vkb-gladiator/

 

My only complaint with the Gladiator is that it maybe doesn't have enough buttons. It works well for IL-2 but less-so for modern sims.

Definitely! They have a modern combat grip joystick that looks nice, too, if you want to give it a look. Although, you know how price and features go up-up-up : ) I will say that the Gladiator II that I have is really nice taken all together. The base is hefty, has 13 buttons (on the base alone) and a "mode" switch so that you can assign the same number under a different mode. Plus it has a pinky switch so that you can effectively use it as a "shift" key and have double-binds for trigger, etc.. 

[CanadaOne]

48 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

If you keep the ShvaK's, the rear view is much better since it isn't hidden by a metal plate. First production models I guess.

 

I didn't know that. I'll check it out.

 

I always brings the 23s. 

[Eicio]

The Vya 23 are among the best canons of WWII, they are always worth it to bring.

 

Didn't know about the visibility though, I spent most of my Il-2 time with the mod 42 with a rear machine gunner, no visibility allowed 

[CanadaOne]

And what those 23s do a 109 that wanders in front of the gunsight..

 

Awesome! 

[Porkins]

The PE2 is a great ground attack plane. Fast, deadly rear gunner, easy to fly, and can carry a decent bomb load. Really fun.

 

On the Axis side, the old Stuka is still the best pinpoint ground attack plane in the game. The BF 110 is also fun, and fast, though fragile.  

Edited March 25, 2018 by Porkins

[CanadaOne]

6 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

If you keep the ShvaK's, the rear view is much better since it isn't hidden by a metal plate. First production models I guess.

 

That's pretty funny. Just tried and what a difference. I spend half my flights in the IL2-41 but I've never flown without the 23s. That increased visibility is sweet. Would love to have it on the 23 variant, but it is what it is.

 

Hard to fly without the 23s. Planes, trains and automobiles, they all crumble. The AP works well on tanks too. Just gotta place yer shots.

[Falkenstein]

9 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

The Gladiator is smaller than the X-52 by a fair bit. I don't have the largest fingers so I could just reach the top of the X-52 comfortably and the Gladiator fits me really well. It's definitely not too large. It may even feel a bit small to you, I'm not sure.

 

Check out my review if you're interested in it: https://stormbirds.blog/2016/12/11/review-vkb-gladiator/

 

My only complaint with the Gladiator is that it maybe doesn't have enough buttons. It works well for IL-2 but less-so for modern sims.

 

  Thank you for the review.  I did not realize there was a joystick smaller than the X-52.  For me, I'm finding the size of the X-52 a good fit, with the hand support in the top position the hat on the upper left is in a good location, if it was any further away then I would have to stretch for it.

 

On 3/24/2018 at 3:32 PM, ShamrockOneFive said:

I can second that the VKB Gladiator (I have the Mark I) is a great stick to fly this sim with. I replaced my X-52 with the Gladiator and I'm still using the X-52 HOTAS until I can find something I like to replace that (maybe VKB's TECS).

 

  In line with the main thread topic of ground attack, I would like to find a good throttle setup for twin-engine ground attackers, which are my preference to fly.  Either good advice on how to better set up my X-52 HOTAS to implement good twin-engine controls, or recommendations for a HOTAS throttle replacement that is designed for twin engine operation.  I have not yet bitten the bullet, but I've been leaning towards picking up the CH Products "Throttle Quadrant" which should also help with the Ju 52, but those crafted ones by GVL224 look so sweet. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Falkenstein

[ShamrockOneFive]

How long can you wait and what's your budget?

 

Thrustmaster's Warthog has dual engine control, VIRPIL's new T-50 throttle does too (and is now out or about to come out) and furthe out is VKB's TECS throttle.

[CrazyDuck]

Nobody mentioned Lagg-3 yet, with its multiple central cannon options.

 

VYa-23 (90 shells) is the best all rounder, devastating vs air to air and anything soft. Ammo is selectable - for tanks, you can take VYa with pure AP ammo. With good aiming (placing most/all shots onto the target) you'll be able to get 3 or 4 PzKpFws before you run dry.

 

Of course you can always take the devastating Sh-37, but its short ammosupply (20 rounds) won't get you much more tank kills than a VYa will (consider you need about 4 Sh-37 direct  hits or about 20 VYa hits from the side to destroy a PzKpFw). Plus, you get reduced ammo for UBS (140 bullets) when Sh-37 is mounted.

 

ShVAK gives you 160 shells, but since they are approx. 2x weaker than a VYa rounds, I don't see much sense in taking this loadout for any kind of misson. You can't pick the ammotype with ShVAK either, it's always mixed AP+HE.

[SqueakyS]

Nobody mentioned the 109 E- either. I know in PWCG it is a ground attacker but I havent tried it in the career mode yet.

[Poochnboo]

I've never heard of the Messerschmidt 109E being referred to as a ground attacker. The airplane was designed to shoot down other airplanes. As is with most of the fighter designs, it wound up shooting up ground targets and dropping light bombs, but it might be a stretch to referr to it as a ground attacker. After Normandy, even Spitfires had bombs hung under their wings. Needless to say, Spitfire pilots were not happy about that. But, I wouldn't put Spitfires in the ground attack category. 

[CanadaOne]

One thing I noticed about ground attacks... slow motion is cool!

 

I dropped a full load how-do-you-do's from the A-20 on a train and then slowed everything down, sat back, hit F5 and watched the train get shredded in glorious slo-mo. Pretty snazzy on the eye candy. Also, while shredding another train - a guilty pleasure - I noticed the 103 cannon on the HS 129 tore the engine right off, like a steel eating dinosaur took a bite. That was also kinda cool. Never got that even with the 37s on the IL2.

 

If it's not too much of a bother, can one of you tech experts please rank the cannons for destructive power or point me to a thread where they are explained a bit.

 

Thanks.

[=FI=Blue2]

Yep, slo mo is cool.  I also enjoy the F6 bomb view once in a while, especially level bombing.

 

The 107 E-7B was specifically adapted for ground attack, I think.  Believe that's what BOX has; at least it's what you get when you add the bomb options.  One of the 2 careers I have going right now is a schlachtgruppe pilot on the Moscow map, and his squadron is flying these.  Fun, but I'm the only one to make it to a target with my bomb(s) so far.  After 4 missions, the rest of the flight has jettisoned theirs every time, as soon as fighter opposition showed up.  Wise if they're bouncing you, but not so much if your top cover is handling them.  Possibly another little improvement needed for career mode eventually.

 

Surprised nobody's talked up the FW.  Nice bomb load, plenty of firepower for soft targets, plenty of range for most targets on our maps, tough, and FAST!  In a group, they can deal with most fighters encountered, and any opposing ground pounders they meet are in real trouble.  Quite the combo.

 

Totally agree with comments about the Peshka.  Such a great plane for so many missions.  And who doesn't love the IL-2?  One thing about taking those 23's for the '41 model though:  you're essentially changing history.  From what I've read, those guns were extremely rare on a '41 model - not even that common on the '42 models.  Aside from that, of course they're awesome.  But if you know tanks aren't your target, the 20mm's will kill all the same ground targets, & will save some weight for more maneuverability.

 

OP:  There are such good times to be had with ALL of the ground pounders, it kinda comes down to your mood & preference.  I'd be much better sticking to one at a time, but I can't resist 'spreading it out' with some time in all of 'em.  Even so, I have barely any in the A-20 & not much more in several of the German planes.  Whatever you pick, we know you'll have a blast!

 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Poochnboo said:

I've never heard of the Messerschmidt 109E being referred to as a ground attacker. The airplane was designed to shoot down other airplanes. As is with most of the fighter designs, it wound up shooting up ground targets and dropping light bombs, but it might be a stretch to referr to it as a ground attacker. After Normandy, even Spitfires had bombs hung under their wings. Needless to say, Spitfire pilots were not happy about that. But, I wouldn't put Spitfires in the ground attack category. 

 

Well, that's what the large majority of Es ended up doing on the Eastern Front - dropping bombs.

[CanadaOne]

And another question, if I may: where does one find "heavy armour" in the QMB? I've found light and medium, but not heavy. At least as defined in the tally sheet of kills you get at the end of a QMB flight. I know that certain planes - perhaps even loadouts - trigger certain vehicles or ships, maybe I need the right plane or combo to get the heavies.

 

Thanks again if someone can point this out.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

There are no heavy tanks in the game but they are coming in the next releases..........................

[CrazyDuck]

5 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

There are no heavy tanks in the game but they are coming in the next releases..........................

 

Actually, KV-1 is. But it's the only one. Very, very hard nut to crack. Even with the BK3.7 you need at least 6 direct, clean hits from the rear or the sides for it to maybe start smoking. No wonder Germans nicknamed it "Russian Colossus".

 

But, as CanadaOne pointed out - I haven't found any heavy tanks in QMB either. Gotta build your own missions for that I guess.

[CanadaOne]

10 minutes ago, CrazyDuck said:

 

Actually, KV-1 is. But it's the only one. Very, very hard nut to crack. Even with the BK3.7 you need at least 6 direct, clean hits from the rear or the sides for it to maybe start smoking. No wonder Germans nicknamed it "Russian Colossus".

 

But, as CanadaOne pointed out - I haven't found any heavy tanks in QMB either. Gotta build your own missions for that I guess.

 

Build my own mission? Mmmmmmmm..... no. Not in this sim.

 

Hopefully that better QMB alluded to during the 3.001 update discussions will provide better and more varied options.

[Poochnboo]

"The 107 E-7B was specifically adapted for ground attack, I think"

 

   Actually, the E7 model was an attempt to rectify the Emil's range issue. It was the first '109 sub type that could carry a droppable fuel tank. 80 U.S. gallons. At the DB engine's fuel consumption rate, that should have added over an hours flying time. That centerline tank pylon gave the added bonus of being able to carry a bomb. But, yeah. I think everything was carrying bombs on the Eastern Front.