Multiplayer news

[Volkoff]

So, we wiil finally get green TIE fighter tracers!   I am looking forward to the I-16 against the BF-109 F-4. It will be kind of like using a Halberstadt D.II against SPADs or SE5as. That should be pretty fun and challenging.  MJ

[ST_ami7b5]

LaGG trim only at the end of february? VVS has one underdog fighter available now  and without possibility to trim.LW has all aces at hand.I think this face is apropriate...

 

Are u rly unable to fly LaGG w/o trim?

 

To nemyslis vazne, Brano  

Edited January 4, 2014 by ST_ami7b5

[Rama]

LaGG trim only at the end of february? VVS has one underdog fighter available now  and without possibility to trim.LW has all aces at hand.I think this face is apropriate...

Can you grasp the difference between "early access" and "final release"?

 

The game isn't released yet. Ealry access allows you to get some view of it and to test some features before the release. Early access isn't supposed to give all the cake and the cherry on it.

[Brano]

I can fly it,if you mean take off and land.But to execute fine maneuvers necessary for air to air or air to ground gunnery is a nightmare.It is like play out of tune guitar.There is some sound coming out of it,but it is not music.

 

I know what early access mean.But if you release 2  antagonist planes and only one is able to trim,that is smtg I do not understand.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Brano

[dburne]

Multiplayer is what Il-2 is all about

 

Actually IIRC in the early stages of, the developers stated it would be more focused on single player.

[GA_332]

 

 

 

First multiplayer missions will be simple dogfights.

 

There goal wil also be ground targets and other mission in multiplayer , not only dogfights like ROF ???

Edited January 4, 2014 by GA_332

[=38=Tatarenko]

"First"

Edited January 4, 2014 by =38=Tatarenko

[GA_332]

"First"

Roger ;-)

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

I-16!!!!!

 

 

How can anyone not love this tubby little fighter?

[Freycinet]

First monoplane fighter with retractable undercarriage in the world.... While the UK, US and Germany were puddling around in biplanes and fixed-gear fighters. The I-16 was a revelation and I'm chuffed we're getting it. The Russians - including the BoS development team - can be proud of it. And they had access to one so I imagine their modelling will be second to none.

[Kleinburger]

I-16!!!!!

 

 

How can anyone not love this tubby little fighter?

 

Its an air frame only the pilot could love, and until your the pilot you will not understand. 

[blackbaron]

Thanks very much for taking the time to post the exciting info you found on the Russian side of the forums!

 

S! Tatarenko

[rolikiraly]

Nice news about the I-16. It can be a very dangerous enemy for Bf-109 pilots, let alone Macchi 200, IAR-80 or Reggiane 2000 'Héja' (if any of these ever appear in the game,( i hope so))

Edited January 4, 2014 by rolikiraly

[dkoor]

Why you guys want I-16 so badly? Explain to noob simmer please)) This aircraft should be worse than LaGG-3, isn't it?

When faced with German opposition in I-16 you at least have some chance.

In LaGG you have none on equal terms.

[FuriousMeow]

I'd rather the trim be done properly and released when it's properly modelled than just half assed and tossed in like the trim of virtually every other flying game out there. The majority of them trim the entire control surface, rather than the tab. So if end of February means it's modeled as accurately as possible - then that's fine by me.

 

Love the I-16, really hope it does get released this year.

[=38=Tatarenko]

It's because the guy doing the trim is currently dong engine modelling for the new planes. So it's not that the trim takes forever but there's a list of priorities that need to be built and tested and modified and engines come first.

[BeastyBaiter]

That's what I got too when I brought it up to Jason in the last dev stream. He was clearly tired of the question popping up and gave the definitive answer. It isn't a copy paste of stabilizer trim or a generic "trim" that simply moves the neutral position of the elevator like every other flight sim ever made has done. They are modeling it as an actual system with its own aerodynamics. The guy making it is also the guy making all the FM's and he's simply doing other things atm (I assume IL2 and Ju-87 FM's).

 

As someone who wants to fly the LaGG online ASAP, this decision in order does not please me. It will be hard enough to fight with a trimmed plane, never mind trying to aim while pulling up by applying 50% down elevator (as opposed to 70% down for level flight). But they made a plan and should stick with it. That said I do hope they take another look at the LaGG-3 FM, there is no way a little trim tab is going to compensate for that. Someone either took the blueprints a little too literally or has a broken joystick.

[von_Tom]

 

Trim isn't everything. In fact I'm not even sure if you'd want trim in combat as the speed can vary so much.

 

The PiGG is a pig and that's all there is to it. It's still fun to play with though having to manage the engine settings etc.

 

Hood

[BeastyBaiter]

I don't adjust trim in combat, so you're right on that point. But generally I set it for a maneuvering speed, which in the Bf-109F4's case is around 300-350km/h (should be similar for the LaGG). At higher speeds I apply forward pressure, at lower it's back pressure. The thing is it's never anything crazy, it's still near the center regardless of speed. In the LaGG-3 as is, it's forward almost all the time even if I'm doing a split S. We are effectively only using half the stick throw instead of all of it. That's a real problem when it comes to doing anything with precision.

 

My methods here are very much the norm. I've heard Russian pilots are trained to trim their planes up all the time and we see that in both RoF and BoS so far. But even so, there is a reasonable trim up (ie Spads in RoF) and an unreasonable trim up (ie the Se-5a in RoF). The LaGG-3 at this time is among the unreasonably trimmed. It's currently trimmed for 230km/h in clean configuration in a super steep climb (so steep it climbs poorly compared to a proper climb speed). The Se-5a I previously mentioned is trimmed to crash on takeoff. Fortunately RoF has adjustable center positions for controls and the planes are so slow it doesn't become a problem at high speeds. Here, however, it's an issue. The LaGG-3's break up speed is around 800km/h. It's max controlled dive speed is only around 600-650km/h though due to insufficient elevator authority to keep the nose down.

[Feathered_IV]

Multiplayer is what Il-2 is all about

Noooo! Singleplayer is where it's at.

[Sternjaeger]

thanks for the news, but I'm a bit confused...

 

I guess I missed something, but why do we get these separate channels for news? Kinda feels like our Russian friends have a preferential channel for updates? 

[FuriousMeow]

They speak Russian?

 

Honestly, why does it matter who gets it first and how - we all get it. There's no benefit in "FIRST!" with the information. Kinda feels like I don't care how the information is learned, so long as I learn it.

My methods here are very much the norm. I've heard Russian pilots are trained to trim their planes up all the time and we see that in both RoF and BoS so far. But even so, there is a reasonable trim up (ie Spads in RoF) and an unreasonable trim up (ie the Se-5a in RoF). The LaGG-3 at this time is among the unreasonably trimmed. It's currently trimmed for 230km/h in clean configuration in a super steep climb (so steep it climbs poorly compared to a proper climb speed). The Se-5a I previously mentioned is trimmed to crash on takeoff. Fortunately RoF has adjustable center positions for controls and the planes are so slow it doesn't become a problem at high speeds. Here, however, it's an issue. The LaGG-3's break up speed is around 800km/h. It's max controlled dive speed is only around 600-650km/h though due to insufficient elevator authority to keep the nose down.

 

Question - what trim and reasonable trim up in RoF do you speak of? Only a couple planes have "trim", and it's the entire stabilizer so not trim in the sense that the majority of WWII planes have. The SPAD has no trim as most WWI planes, you fly with the stick in a certain manner for level flight unless you use stick curves to make it otherwise.

 

Unless of course you mean the aircraft's natural state. In which case, the Dr1 would be a great example. But, it is actually that way. Aircraft are tail heavy, or nose heavy, or perfectly balanced, so the "reasonable" or "unreasonable" aspect means nothing when it's simply the balance of the aircraft especially when said aircraft is untrimmable such as almost every WWI plane.

[Sternjaeger]

mine was just curiosity, why do devs release updates in Russian only when it could be done just here on the official website for everybody? It's not the first time we see this and I've never been a huge fan of this "double standard", that's it..

[FuriousMeow]

There is no double standard, there is no update. It was just responses to questions. This forum right here is just as official as this forum, right here: forum.il2sturmovik.ru which is exactly where those tidbits of information came from.

[Sternjaeger]

ah forget it..

[BeastyBaiter]

Question - what trim and reasonable trim up in RoF do you speak of? Only a couple planes have "trim", and it's the entire stabilizer so not trim in the sense that the majority of WWII planes have. The SPAD has no trim as most WWI planes, you fly with the stick in a certain manner for level flight unless you use stick curves to make it otherwise.

 

Unless of course you mean the aircraft's natural state. In which case, the Dr1 would be a great example. But, it is actually that way. Aircraft are tail heavy, or nose heavy, or perfectly balanced, so the "reasonable" or "unreasonable" aspect means nothing when it's simply the balance of the aircraft especially when said aircraft is untrimmable such as almost every WWI plane.

 

I am referring to the natural state. That said there is a factory set trim for every plane ever built, even the Wright 1903 flyer. It comes in the form of the stabilizer angles. Fixed they may be, but when the plane is built they are deliberately angled certain ways, they are not simply glued on in whatever manner happened to be convenient at the time. You are correct that the Fokker Dr.I is a prime example of being unreasonably trimmed. If the real one were half as bad as it is in game, it would have simply had the leading edge of the horizontal stab angled up a degree or two on all subsequent Dr.I's built and the initial one would have been retrofitted with the fix immediately after the first test flight (assuming the plane and pilot survived that engineering error).

Edited January 5, 2014 by =LD=King_Hrothgar

[Volkoff]

On the grand topic of the I-16:

 

 

 MJ

 

p.s. Check closed captioning language options, if you need a translation. (Click on the, 'CC,' found on the lower bar of the Youtube window)

Edited January 5, 2014 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[FuriousMeow]

I am referring to the natural state. That said there is a factory set trim for every plane ever built, even the Wright 1903 flyer. It comes in the form of the stabilizer angles. Fixed they may be, but when the plane is built they are deliberately angled certain ways, they are not simply glued on in whatever manner happened to be convenient at the time. You are correct that the Fokker Dr.I is a prime example of being unreasonably trimmed. If the real one were half as bad as it is in game, it would have simply had the leading edge of the horizontal stab angled up a degree or two on all subsequent Dr.I's built and the initial one would have been retrofitted with the fix immediately after the first test flight (assuming the plane and pilot survived that engineering error).

 

Except..

 

The Triplane tends to fly tail heavy and increasing speed requires lots of forward stick to hold the nose down~ It appears as if the effective center of drag is above the thrust line so the faster you go the more elevator correction is needed to hold the nose down. This is somewhat of an explanation for the familiar "tuck" position of the Triplane at high speed. The horizontal stabilizer is rigged at a plus 90 (leading edge high) but even with this forward stick pressure is needed as speed increases.

 

 

http://rwebs.net/avhistory/flight.htm

[BeastyBaiter]

But they didn't mention the pilot having to jam the stick almost all the way forwards to avoid doing a loop on takeoff. Planes are built (assuming no trim) to fly level-ish (can't be too precise during construction) at a certain airspeed and throttle setting. I'm sure their replica Dr.I is no different. They talk about going tail heavy at higher speeds and having to fly nose down for high speed level flight. Big difference between going out of trim at certain speeds and not being trimmed at ANY speed.

 

Edit: It's also entirely possible that the real Dr.I had this problem on its first test flight and was fixed in the planes that went to front line units. That change may never have been included in the blueprints but fixed on the production line. Assuming that replica was built using original blueprints, it's possible they repeated a mistake that was corrected nearly 100 years ago. Either way, it's a remarkably easy thing to fix during construction. Admittedly its more of a problem once the plane is fully assembled but even then it can still be done.

Edited January 5, 2014 by =LD=King_Hrothgar

[II./JG27_Rich]

Noooo! Singleplayer is where it's at.

OH poo.   There's nothing like shooting the person down who is making your night a living hell

Edited January 5, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[1./KG4_Blackwolf]

OH poo.   There's nothing like shooting the person down who is making your night a living hell

Got That right! If I want single player I'll go play Pac-Man. If I'm flying I want to fly against real people not AI. IMO. 

[BeastyBaiter]

I enjoy both modes, the career in RoF is pretty nice. I can't wait for them to add it here but I suspect that is a long ways off still. Probably one of the last things prior to official release.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

There is no more evil and cunning an opponent than another human, not least when you think you have one cornered and they do something overly aggressive to try and stay alive. More than once I have muttered, "Oh, you sneaky bastard," to an opponent who has attempted or completed a reverse on me when I thought I had them dead to rights. AI will never have that kind of will to preserve their (virtual) lives and why I always perfer MP.

[ll./JG77_JadeBandit]

This is great, thank you for the update, looking forward to the multi player test phase.

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Its an air frame only the pilot could love, and until your the pilot you will not understand. 

 

[=38=Tatarenko]

This is great, thank you for the update, looking forward to the multi player test phase.

Me too thought I fear we'll get murdered by the Messers!

[dkoor]

Noooo! Singleplayer is where it's at.

For the most part I agree with you.

 

Most of the MP so far was almost exclusively non-historic fun.

Not really my cup of tea.

 

For me best of the MP world was in COOP's.

[Zmaj76]

"My" greatest moments in MP were in SEOW with il2 46 and in early stage of ROF when we only had COOPS. 

For SP im not interested at all...I just hate to play against dumb AI....for practice is ok.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Tvrdi

[dburne]

For me, I am all about single player.

Career - will be interesting what they do with this, based on the beta Career that was developed for ROF. I hope it is expanded upon for BOS.

 

Campaign - A nice single player campaign or two provided with the release would be very nice, however what I really long for is some of the great user made campaigns similar to what was done for IL2. Based on the more " comprehensive" mission builder, there may not be as much as I would like to see, but I do hope some talented mission builders create some great offline campaigns. This is what I enjoy the most flying combat sims.

 

Multiplayer - Maybe someday, who knows this might be the sim that draws me to it eventually, remains to be seen I guess. I had enough of that back in my sim racing days and still feel somewhat burned out from that - and that was many years ago.

Edited January 5, 2014 by dburnette

[Matt]

As someone who wants to fly the LaGG online ASAP, this decision in order does not please me. It will be hard enough to fight with a trimmed plane, never mind trying to aim while pulling up by applying 50% down elevator (as opposed to 70% down for level flight). But they made a plan and should stick with it. That said I do hope they take another look at the LaGG-3 FM, there is no way a little trim tab is going to compensate for that. Someone either took the blueprints a little too literally or has a broken joystick.

 

If you want to fly the LaGG exclusively, you can download DIView and set the center position of your stick to level your plane out at your desired speed.

http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836/DIView.zip

 

That won't give you trim, but it will make trim less necessary.

 

 

I guess I missed something, but why do we get these separate channels for news? Kinda feels like our Russian friends have a preferential channel for updates? 

Seems like it. Might have something to do with the "difficult" behaviour in general on the English forums compared to the Russian forums.