Ammo belting/composition

[CrazyDuck]

Do we have any official (coming from the devs) ammo composition/belting for each gun (including special ammo options, where available)?

[JaffaCake]

Not aware of any official statements, but generally quite easy to test HE / AP compositions as those produce visibly different ground splash effects.

[CrazyDuck]

6 minutes ago, JaffaCake said:

Not aware of any official statements, but generally quite easy to test HE / AP compositions as those produce visibly different ground splash effects.

 

Yeah, that's generally true, at least for the crude dividing of AP from HE.

 

However, there are cases of multiple different subtypes/versions of a single kind of ammo used, sometimes at the same time (ordinary HE and MinenGeschoss ammo come to mind, standard bomber hunting belting was AP-T, HE, HE, MG, MG, but standard air to air belting was AP-T, HE, MG). I'd like to dig a bit deeper into this, so any info from the game is welcome (to compare it to historical values).

[Tag777]

So far the developers have comment none respect to the subject. Nevertheless it will be great if we could select subtypes of ammo and comes to my mind subtypes that not are included righ now as incendiary like the Mk VI 'de Wilde' ammunition for example in the case of the Spit. Also for some planes as P-39 we have the option to select only HE or AP but not he combination of both.

An example of the types of ammunition for the American .50 cal Browning machine gun mounted in the P-40 and P-39:

" There are several different types of ammunition used in the M2HB and AN aircraft guns. From World War II through the Vietnam War, the big Browning was used with standard ball, armor-piercing (AP), armor-piercing incendiary (API), and armor-piercing incendiary tracer (APIT) rounds. All .50 ammunition designated "armor-piercing" was required to completely perforate 0.875 inches (22.2 mm) of hardened steel armor plate at a distance of 100 yards (91 m) and 0.75 inches (19 mm) at 547 yards (500 m).^[31] The API and APIT rounds left a flash, report, and smoke on contact, useful in detecting strikes on enemy targets; they were primarily intended to incapacitate thin-skinned and lightly armored vehicles and aircraft, while igniting their fuel tanks.^[32] "

Edited March 22, 2018 by Tag777

[CrazyDuck]

Hm, do we even know whether the same gun used on different aircraft uses the same belting?

 

I'd like to perform some repeatable, objective tests of weapon efficiency (stationary objects, planes on the ground etc.) and of course gunners are the most convenient way to do this.

So, does say A-20 .50cal gunner use the same belting as the M2 in an Aircobra or P40 for example?

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

There is a long way of going about it, and somewhat technical, but running a network packet capture on traffic to a IL2 server (using say wireshark), you can see data for hits being sent to the server.

 

It tells the round type and what it hit in clear text (ie . If you setup a map so that only 1 gun registered hits, you could probably deduce the belting from that. I dare say you probably see this in server logs as well? DED Random expert server statistic page showed hits for ammo type if I recall correctly, so perhaps it is logged in dedicated server stats.

 

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

I believe it was stated as a nice-to-have but not a priority as it would require re-writing of specific code areas.

[Max_Damage]

You can change belts in il2. You can have AP, HE or a combination. For german planes i think the combination is 2 HE 1 AP.

Edited March 23, 2018 by Max_Damage

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Current way of implementation of various types of ammunition is very simplified here. It's only AP and HE with some added effects, but there are no separate APT, APHE, HEI, HEIT or all other types of ammunition. I asked Viks about that back in 2015 and received a reply of this nature: "the main problem - is technology, as in case of different bullets type - we need to add different target effects on it (i mean incendiary would incinerate fuel better than high explosive and so on = calculating time) and all of this would "born" alot of different bullets type in air. Unfortunately that would cause huge performance drop, especially when hundreds of thousands bullets fired in big dogfights, yet - it wont bring such difference - which would be able to spot by average sim-pilot, so here is whatg we need to choose - between "best" and "good".

So yet - its not that time to implement it, lets hope one day - it would happen."

 

I guess its a question to be asked on next Q&A if this time is now, with development of Bodenplatte. I'd very much appreciate the fact that M8 API or M20 APIT rounds would be available for P-51 / P-47.

[KingstonDE]

15 minutes ago, Max_Damage said:

You can change belts in il2. You can have AP, HE or a combination. For german planes i think the combination is 2 HE 1 AP.

Hi,

 

how you can change the belts? Will it works also on onlineservers?

 

Allso here is the historical setup for german belts:

 

MG 131 vs 4 mot Bombers: 1x Brandgranate  + 1x Panzergranate

MG 131 vs all other planes:  1x Brandgranate + 1x Panzergranate        

 

MG 151/20 or MG FF vs 4 mot Bombers: 1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + 1x Panzerbrandgranate

MG 151/20 or MG FF vs 4 all other planes: 3x Mine + 1x Brandgranate + 1x Panzerbrandgranate

 

MK 103 vs all planes ( incl. 4mot Bombers ): 2x Mine + 1x Sprenggranate + 1x Panzersprenggranate,  when the Brandgranate for the MK 103 arrived the belt change to

MK 103 vs all planes ( incl. 4mot Bombers ): 1x Mine + 1x Brandgranate

 

@ D.(Luft) 5001 Horrido! Des Jägers Schießfibel 1944

 

even when this is a book out of 1944, they used this belts long before the book comes out, the question is do we have this belts for german guns in this game?

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

[=LD=Hethwill]

In the setup ammo, there's the blue, blue/orange, orange belts choices. There's no extremely detailed belt setup AFAIK.

[KingstonDE]

10 minutes ago, =LD=Hethwill said:

In the setup ammo, there's the blue, blue/orange, orange belts choices. There's no extremely detailed belt setup AFAIK.

Ok but not online and not for german planes right? Because dont get this option on german planes.

 

regards

 

Little_D

[CrazyDuck]

3 minutes ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

Ok but not online and not for german planes right? Because dont get this option on german planes.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

You can choose only for certain guns. MK103 and BK3.7 allow to choose between AP or HE (or mixed, 103 only). For Russians you can choose for VYa and NS-37. You can also choose for ShVAK, but not on all planes. Only MiG and La-5 I think.

[KingstonDE]

Hi CrazyDuck,

 

thx for info

 

regards

 

Little_D

[=LD=Hethwill]

41 minutes ago, 1./JG2_Little_D said:

Ok but not online and not for german planes right? Because dont get this option on german planes.

 

regards

 

Little_D

 

As CrazyDuck said, It is across most planes, most additional cannons have belt choices, no matter if Axis or Allies.

 

S!

 

[CrazyDuck]

Interestingly enough, even a P-39 offers an option to pack ether HE or AP shells. I have never heard of AP shells being used in an antibomber "mortar like" (slow muzzle velocity) M4 by the Soviets. 

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

On 3/23/2018 at 12:09 AM, CrazyDuck said:

So, does say A-20 .50cal gunner use the same belting as the M2 in an Aircobra or P40 for example?

 

Both have the same belting of  "BULLET_USA_12-7x99_AP" No variations.

 

The other guns in the P39 fire "BULLET_USA_7-62x63_AP", again, no variations in the belting.