New career, Stalingrad, some historical mistakes ... YAK 7, FW190.

[MarcoPegase44]

Hi Jason,
Thank you for this great simulation and the work you do with your team, the new career is very good, but I am surprised by some historical mistakes for the Stalingrad part.
- The Yak 7 is absent and only available on the Kuban battle.
The Yak 7 were present at the Battle of Stalingrad in early September 1942 in some units of the 8th Va (148 IAP, the 4 squadrons of 287IAD and jointly with YAK 1 for, 296 IAP and 6th IPA).

- Idem for the YAK 1b type137 were used from December 1942 by the 176 IAP and then early 1943 by the 9th GIAP.

- The FW 190 was not present in the Luftflotte 4 battle order.
In the career of the game the fw19 appears with the I / JG51 in Pitomnik, this unit to my knowledge has never been on this ground during the Battle of Stalingrad, it was much further north of the front.

These small corrections to be historical, are inspired by the book "Black cross & Red Star".

Thanks again for all the work you do

[CrazyDuck]

12 minutes ago, MarcoPegase44 said:

- The Yak 7 is absent and only available on the Kuban battle.
The Yak 7 were present at the Battle of Stalingrad in early September 1942 in some units of the 8th Va (148 IAP, the 4 squadrons of 287IAD and jointly with YAK 1 for, 296 IAP and 6th IPA).

 

Are you sure these were a VK-105PF equipped Yak-7Bs (which we have in the sim), and not the earlier 105PA versions (Yak-7B or even Yak-7A)?

[Finkeren]

Nope. Both the Yak-1b and Yak-7b in the sim are later version, different from the ones that would have been at Stalingrad.

 

There were no Fw 190s at Stalingrad, that is true. The devs know this. They have allowed for this historical inaccuracy to allow owners of BoS Premium Edition to fly the Fw 190A3 in the career. 

 

If you don’t fly the Fw 190 yourself, it should not appear in the career missions (though there have been stories already of this happening anyway - which hopefully will be fixed)

[Feathered_IV]

If I recall, there were only 16 MC.202s in service on the eastern front.  I seem to have encountered several times that number over Moscow.

[Finkeren]

8 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

If I recall, there were only 16 MC.202s in service on the eastern front.  I seem to have encountered several times that number over Moscow.

 

Yep - needs a fix. It’s annoying.

[Brano]

Yak-7b of earlier production series were there at Stalingrad. M-105PF engine has been produced in Zavod No.26 (Ufa) since May 1942. Comparing to our s.36 Yak-7b we have for BoK, earlier batches were slower by 15-20km/h . 

As example,Yak-7b of Zavod No.153

No.2241 tested in june 1942

0m..........514km/h

1850m....549km/h

3550m....570km/h

[MarcoPegase44]

the YAK 7b M-105PF were engaged in Stalingrad with the 288IAD of the summer of 1942. but the poor quality of the finishes has limited the actual performances in operation.

Se the book . Soviet fighters by Herbert Léonard

[csThor]

I had already asked BlackSix whether a continuation of the campaign at least for parts of JG 51 on the Moscow and Velikiye Luki maps through 1942 and into 1943 would be feasible, but apparently the team has to keep map and planeset "pure" depending on the release to avoid problems with players not owning certain aircraft or maps. That means a campaign on the Moscow Maps will be limited to BoM aircraft, Stalingrad campaigns to BoS aircraft and Kuban campaigns to BoK aircraft. And given the fact that they already have new projects on their plate they have no time to spend on such ideas, either.

 

Which means historically present types (like the Macchis or the mentioned Yak-7bs in BoS campaigns) will not happen. Sadly, that is.

[BlackSix]

5 minutes ago, csThor said:

I had already asked BlackSix whether a continuation of the campaign at least for parts of JG 51 on the Moscow and Velikiye Luki maps through 1942 and into 1943 would be feasible, but apparently the team has to keep map and planeset "pure" depending on the release to avoid problems with players not owning certain aircraft or maps. That means a campaign on the Moscow Maps will be limited to BoM aircraft, Stalingrad campaigns to BoS aircraft and Kuban campaigns to BoK aircraft. And given the fact that they already have new projects on their plate they have no time to spend on such ideas, either.

We talked about a very specific situation: we can't extend the BOM campaign for the rest of 1942 using only BOS planeset as it won't be available for BOM only owners.

We don't need to keep map and planeset "pure".

[EAF19_Marsh]

Should SKG 210 not be in BoM somewhere?

[BlackSix]

SKG 210 supported 2nd Panzer Army and was based near Orel most part of time - out of our map.

[fsktha]

Also the Italian pilots have German names . I wondered also if any one could enlighten me about the award system. I have 33 kills in the Moscow camp and still only gotten EKII and the pilot badge

 

Cheers

[Alexmarine]

Both the Macchi on Moscow and the FW on Stalingrad are appearing in careers of players that didn't select them to fly. It looks like a bug in the mission generator make them spawn as AI units even if player is not using them.

[EAF19_Marsh]

Quote

SKG 210 supported 2nd Panzer Army and was based near Orel most part of time - out of our map.

 

Thanks, did not realise that they were further south / west

[csThor]

Ah, sorry BlackSix ... then I misunderstood you. 

[sevenless]

On ‎19‎.‎03‎.‎2018 at 4:01 PM, BlackSix said:

We talked about a very specific situation: we can't extend the BOM campaign for the rest of 1942 using only BOS planeset as it won't be available for BOM only owners.

We don't need to keep map and planeset "pure".

 

Just an idea...an alternative strategy would be to make them available to everyone as AI planes and only allow the owners of the modules (BoK, collector planes etc.) to fly them. That way you would gain more flexibility to use AI-planes in the career mode and are not that strictly limited to "pure planesets". That way an extension of the BoM campaign would be possible and usage of BoS planes would be limited to buyers of BoS.

[seafireliv]

People in my local circles think I`m knowledgeable about WW2 aircraft, but you guys really know your stuff in detail!

[falle96]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 10:52 AM, csThor said:

I had already asked BlackSix whether a continuation of the campaign at least for parts of JG 51 on the Moscow and Velikiye Luki maps through 1942 and into 1943 would be feasible, but apparently the team has to keep map and planeset "pure" depending on the release to avoid problems with players not owning certain aircraft or maps. That means a campaign on the Moscow Maps will be limited to BoM aircraft, Stalingrad campaigns to BoS aircraft and Kuban campaigns to BoK aircraft. And given the fact that they already have new projects on their plate they have no time to spend on such ideas, either.

 

Which means historically present types (like the Macchis or the mentioned Yak-7bs in BoS campaigns) will not happen. Sadly, that is.

 

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 11:01 AM, BlackSix said:

We talked about a very specific situation: we can't extend the BOM campaign for the rest of 1942 using only BOS planeset as it won't be available for BOM only owners.

We don't need to keep map and planeset "pure".

 

Sorry, it might be because I've not been getting a great deal of sleep recently, but could you explain what you mean by extending the campaign and keeping the map/planeset "pure"?

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

On 3/19/2018 at 10:01 AM, BlackSix said:

We talked about a very specific situation: we can't extend the BOM campaign for the rest of 1942 using only BOS planeset as it won't be available for BOM only owners.

 

-snip-

 

I think this is a pretty major design/marketing flaw and severely limits the enjoyment/usefulness of the career.

 

It should be done similarly to PWCG - everything is there, whether or not you own it determines if you can fly it.

[Danziger]

On 3/19/2018 at 9:05 AM, Finkeren said:

 

Yep - needs a fix. It’s annoying.

Weird. I haven't encountered a single 202 lol. I think it's cool how much variation there can be when playing the same campaign.

[csThor]

43 minutes ago, FarflungWanderer said:

Sorry, it might be because I've not been getting a great deal of sleep recently, but could you explain what you mean by extending the campaign and keeping the map/planeset "pure"?

 

As I said I had misunderstood BlackSix quite a bit. My question had been directed at extending the career on the Moscow map (despite the lack of spring and summer versions of it) into 1942 and early 1943 using BoS aircraft. BlackSix's answer was negative for a host of different reasons, most of which have to do with the need to focus manpower and resources on future projects.

[falle96]

10 minutes ago, csThor said:

 

As I said I had misunderstood BlackSix quite a bit. My question had been directed at extending the career on the Moscow map (despite the lack of spring and summer versions of it) into 1942 and early 1943 using BoS aircraft. BlackSix's answer was negative for a host of different reasons, most of which have to do with the need to focus manpower and resources on future projects.

Ah, I see. Perhaps it’s something that can be retroactively added by the devs or by the modding community. 

[senseispcc]

Yes, there are mistakes that need to be ironed out, but, other type of Yak-7 where produced before the battle of Stalingrad, 12 Mc202 where present during this battle, Fw 190 A3 could have been present, La5 where present at a late stage of the battle, many other type of planes where present during the battle that are not in the game but this is only a game not reality.

It is not perfect but is the closed game you can get at the moment for the PC's we have for the moment and should be thankful for that. 

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, senseispcc said:

Fw 190 A3 could have been present,

 

Except that they weren't. 

5 hours ago, senseispcc said:

La5 where present at a late stage of the battle,

 

August 1942

[PatrickAWlson]

One thing that I find interesting is the force structure of the VVS.  7 bomber units (4 PE2 and 3 A20) but only 4 IL2 units.  

[Kawolski_VII]

I imagine they probably fudged history somewhat so that players like myself who own the A3/La-5 but not Kuban could actually use them in career. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

4 minutes ago, Kawolski_VII said:

I imagine they probably fudged history somewhat so that players like myself who own the A3/La-5 but not Kuban could actually use them in career. 

 

That's exactly what they did. I'm very much ok with them doing that too. There were certain legacy product considerations they had to make and they did.