Aleutians

[Royal_Flight]

I'm optimistic that the Pacific is still on the cards. Now that we have the P-39 and P-40, the future Midway-era Japanese aircraft (Zero, D3A and B5N) have something to fight against.

 

All it would take is a small, rugged and montainous island map to provide a useful theatre to test and introduce the shift to the Pacific, and allows the devs to work on the main three Japanese types first without concerns about building a Midway map with two sets of assets and without needing to balance them by adding US Navy aircraft to match them, during the initial part of development.

 

I'm not a great expert on the Aleutian Islands campaign by any stretch of the imagination, having read a few articles online yesterday is about the extent of it, but the main US fighter strength was P-39s and P-40s, both of which we already have. There were also some B-17s and B-18s, which we can do without.

While P-38s took over from P-39s, we'll get a different version in Bodenplatte - the BoBo model will be a P-38L whereas the -38E or F was likely used in the Aleutians in 1942.

 

The Imperial Japanese Navy used their iconic Zero, D3A Val and B5N Kate combination, which will be a necessity for any mid-war theatre involving the IJN. 

 

Naval and ground assets can be added as and when ready. 

Could be a good way to make a transition to the Pacific theatre. 

[=27=Davesteu]

While I'm personally interested in this overlooked scenario I don't think it would be well received by the majority.

 

First of all, please excuse me, being someone heavily interested in the Asiatic Theatre of War I dissent with "the main three Japanese types".
Your latter "Imperial Japanese Navy used their iconic Zero, D3A Val and B5N Kate" I think is a more correct way to put it.
I'm nitpicking, please don't be offended. Just trying to make people aware of other aircraft than Zeros, Hellcats and Corsairs as well as other scenarios than Pearl Harbor, Midway and Iwo Jima.
Contentual you aren't quite correct either. Mentioned D3A and B5N were only used for the Dutch Harbor raid. Even the A6M2-21 wasn't used beyond Dutch Harbor, the main Aleutian campaign it exclusively was the A6M2-N "Rufe" subtype.

IJN:
Dutch Harbor raid only:
A6M2-21
D3A1
B5N1/2
Aleutian campaign only:
A6M2-N
E13A1

USAAF/USN/RCAF:
PBY-5
P-38E
P-39D
P-40K
B-25C/D (which I hope will be the model we get with BoBP)

 

H6K also were used for a short period during 1942, but being a four-engine aircraft it would be an unlikely type to be included.
If you want to include the Dutch Harbor raid this aircraft isn't justifiable in a "ten aircraft setup" anyways.

Nice but equally unlikely would be an early B-24 D. At least it wouldn't require large formations in this scenario.
Same is true for B-17 E which could be reused in a Midway and/or early Papua New Guinea scenario.


The big bummer in fact is the sheer distance between enemy bases.
Japanese bases were Attu & Kiska Island, closest Allied base was on the eastern end of Amchitka Island. Kiska and Amchitka are ~140 km apart.
140 km might be ok but Amchitka airfield was only partially opened in mid-February 1943 resulting in just one month of parallel usage of Amchitka and Kiska.
Next would be Adak Airfield, operational from mid-September 1942, at a distance of ~400km to Kiska.
Followed up by Umnak Airfield at a distance of nearly 1000(!) km to Kiska, 1300km to Attu.

I would, yet I can't see most Axis pilots enjoying their choice of aircraft. The Rufe being comparably slow and the Jake's limited bombload (it has a bombsight though) paired with long distance flights likely would bore most without special interest in this part of aviation history. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[Royal_Flight]

I'm not proposing a full theatre release, I'm not sure I explained properly. 

What I was getting at was an Aleutians map, which could potentially be done by a third party and would provide a place for the upcoming Japanese Midway aircraft to fly against the P-39 and P-40 that we already have. 

I wouldn't want any development time being spent on creating any other US aircraft that would only fit this theatre for a ten-aircraft set, but when I say 'main Japanese planes' I mean those three (A6M, D3A, B5N) which will be the central features of a 'BoMidway' release. 

Making an Aleutians map would allow them to be made first and released into a theatre where they fit, rather than having Wildcats vs Zeros over Stalingrad or off the coast of Crimea. 

 

Ultimately I'd hope for a CBI theatre and Solomons/New Guinea for land-based army aviation on both sides, as well as some carrier-based scenarios too, Midway for mid-war and Okinawa or similar to get the late-war period in and include the British Pacific Fleet. 

 

I'm a fan of Japanese aircraft and naval aviation in general so optimistic that the Pacific theatre isn't far behind Bodenplatte. 

[=27=Davesteu]

While I now see where you are coming from I don't think it really is necessary this way.

Both, BoM & BoK maps got released midway, so why shouldn't the simplistic Midway map be released midway () the latest?

As I explained in my previous post the Japanese Navy aircraft we supposedly see modeled with "BoMidway" (if it's still going to be our first stop-by) aren't really fitting the Aleutian campaign. Furthermore most people without specialized interest don't attribute the Aleutians and their landscape with the Asia-Pacific War. They think about tropical Islands of the Central and South Pacific.

Therefore I assume a generic Aleutians-themed map wouldn't be the ideal choice. It would have to be a generic one anyway as otherwise the Japanese don't have any airfields.

My opinion isn't based on personal preference, I happily would buy a "Battle of Aleutian Islands" and cheer to the producers for their courage of releasing a hardcore 2.0 "Forgotten Battles".

 

On 18.3.2018 at 2:37 PM, Royal_Flight said:

Ultimately I'd hope for a CBI theatre and Solomons/New Guinea for land-based army aviation on both sides

I absolutely agree with you there. While the Solomons are very interesting landscape- & theatre-wise they are behind (Papua) New Guinea & CBI for me personal, but by far ahead of anything Pacific Ocean Areas related, except Guadalcanal & Aleutians of course.

On 18.3.2018 at 2:37 PM, Royal_Flight said:

some carrier-based scenarios too, Midway for mid-war and Okinawa or similar to get the late-war period in and include the British Pacific Fleet. 

If we get Midway first I'm ok with it, I have to anyways, but I'm not particular happy about it either.
Honestly in terms of this game it is the best scenario to depict carrier battles I think, featuring land and naval targets without one side at big advantage(!) technological and/or numerical. 

But it's hard to properly depict in a game that isn't both, a naval and a combat-flight simulator, also not providing much in terms of campaigns or different missions, off- and online as well as historical and semi-historical. But at least Japanese aviation I guess... and possibly even a Devastator or Wind-Indicator?

SWPA & CBI though...

On 18.3.2018 at 2:37 PM, Royal_Flight said:

Okinawa or similar to get the late-war period in and include the British Pacific Fleet

Okinawa honestly is a very bad scenario to go to. The BPF you won't see near Okinawa itself anyways, their contribution to this campaign was solely focused on the Sakishima Islands.

[Gambit21]

I wouldn't mind an Aleutians map as long as it was 3rd party and didn't divert time and resources from what I think we really need - Midway, Solomons, (same plane set with a few additions) R-Area Air Force, (float planes) etc.

It's too early for me to get wrapped up on all of that though...much to do in the meantime.

 

I have a Solomons campaign all mapped out day by day though.

If it wasn't Bodenplatte that was inserted in between, giving me the Jug and Mustangs to work with, I'd be going nuts right now waiting for PTO.

As it stands, this theater and 9th Air Force tactical operations are a very close 2nd for me.

 

The Zeke will always be my favorite

 

 

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

Aleutians sound as a nice side project, not very well known but with some interesting possibilities.

 

However, at present state I do not think game engine could handle PTO, at least not in a realistic enough manner. With issues 3.001 introduced (that I'm more than certain will be ironed out) I simpy see no way that you could see a formation of 50-60 aircraft attacking 20-30 ships and being intercepted by a dozen or two of fighters. You would also need a far more extended object rendering distance since it matters in spotting and engaging fleets. That particularly translates to a multiplayer where some servers really struggle in terms of stability and fluidity of gameplay.

Sheer number of objects (and considering every ship would have from four up to a hundred anti aircraft guns) and effects could be too much to handle for some older pc's.