OpenTrack/TrackIR issues after update 3.001

[busdriver]

13 hours ago, Field-Ops said:

Thats no fix. Losing a feature is not a fix. Every other TIR game I have works. Even Arma3. Just because you've "reasoned" the usefulness of it away does not make it any less annoying to those of us who have years of it being used in this way. In fact its rather a spit in the face if you ask me.

 

How can you sit there and say that giving you a FIX, a SOLUTION,  a WORKAROUND, a WAY TO MAKE THE GAME PLAYABLE is a spit in your face. That is silly.  It is your choice to go through life always getting upset at unintended consequences. Until the Devs decide to address something they don't see as a problem in need of immediate attention, you will simply be pissed off. I honestly feel bad for you.

 

11 hours ago, 1CAG_Darrylx444 said:

This BUG has affected me also...But to anyone who claims that I don't need this roll axis: you are wrong and I don't care what you think anymore.

 

Just to be clear, due to the current behavior of TIR in 3.001, you are completely and totally unable to play this fantastic sim? You absolutely NEED to have Roll enabled in TIR to play BoS. Would it be unfair to suggest that you're being a little dramatic?

 

 

[=STP=Darrylx444]

Yes the word NEED is always relative to the subject.... I NEED air, water, shelter or I will die. I don't NEED to play a video game at all. 

Any chance YOU are being a little over-sensitive / literal ? :-)

 

How about lets say it upsets me a little tiny bit, that I can no longer use this feature? Its loss inhibits my enjoyment of this game. mmm OK?

 

I NEED to have it back the way it was, in order to enjoy this game properly... please?

Edited March 18, 2018 by 1CAG_Darrylx444

[=STP=Darrylx444]

Hey guys, I decided to make a video to assist others with identifying the problem we are discussing here. Also to demonstrate how it does not happen on 8 other games that use TrackIR.

 

 

[Field-Ops]

2 hours ago, busdriver said:

How can you sit there and say that giving you a FIX, a SOLUTION,  a WORKAROUND, a WAY TO MAKE THE GAME PLAYABLE is a spit in your face. That is silly.  It is your choice to go through life always getting upset at unintended consequences. Until the Devs decide to address something they don't see as a problem in need of immediate attention, you will simply be pissed off. I honestly feel bad for you.

 

Its the manner in which you delved into the "fix". Simply stating we should just disable roll axis until the Devs address it would have been fine. Its going into why the Devs probably shouldnt bother because roll axis does nothing for you and you should just"be like me"and had never used it. Thats what pisses me off. Years of working correctly and you want to explain it away into a non-issue when it clearly is. 

 

Your oppinion is fine and all, but I'm keeping my roll on and sticking with it for a long as I can (which is usually a couple of engagements in the air) or switching to games that do work properly. Yes it is game breaking, yes it is an issue that needs fixing. No other way to explain it.

[=420=Syphen]

4 hours ago, 1CAG_Darrylx444 said:

Hey guys, I decided to make a video to assist others with identifying the problem we are discussing here. Also to demonstrate how it does not happen on 8 other games that use TrackIR.

 

 

 

Great demo! Kept watching just to see how many sims you were gonna show   Was waiting for Aerofly and P3D to show up as well hah!

 

Hope this gets to the Devs and they can hotfix this silly bug.

[AstroCat]

TrackIR 5, same issue.

[=STP=Darrylx444]

I have been asking around today on a few of the Discord channels that I frequent too. A couple dozen there have said "me too" (=same problem) and only one "not me" so far. Interestingly some hadn't actually noticed the bug until I pointed it out, but I guess that depends on how much one uses the roll axis (and the amplitude setting of it) while looking back (or sideways). It slapped me in the face originally when I was flying the PE-2, since I often look back behind the headrest to see where my gunner is shooting. But I also use it for dog-fighting, checking six, anything really.

[JG1_Shadepiece]

Just wanted to throw my hat in as well. Having the roll issue when checking six. My profile makes it so when I check six my head rolls into the seat. This is really disorienting, and I really hope a fix is found soon. This is really making checking six a very irritating experience at the moment.

[Remontti]

I have inverted roll also when turning head over 90 degrees. Using Trackir 5 and TrackclipPro. 

 

In 1CAG_Darrylx444s video the other sims seem to work ok. But I get this inverted roll in Trackir before I even start IL-2. Can others confirm this?

 

I noticed that someone posted this this also at Naturalpoints forum but it was not mentioned if he was playing IL-2. Maybe it would be good idea to bumb that forum post also if you have account there. 

 

[Mukai]

7 hours ago, 7./JG26_Shadepiece said:

Just wanted to throw my hat in as well. Having the roll issue when checking six. My profile makes it so when I check six my head rolls into the seat. This is really disorienting, and I really hope a fix is found soon. This is really making checking six a very irritating experience at the moment.

 

4 hours ago, Remontti said:

I have inverted roll also when turning head over 90 degrees. Using Trackir 5 and TrackclipPro. 

 

In 1CAG_Darrylx444s video the other sims seem to work ok. But I get this inverted roll in Trackir before I even start IL-2. Can others confirm this?

 

I noticed that someone posted this this also at Naturalpoints forum but it was not mentioned if he was playing IL-2. Maybe it would be good idea to bumb that forum post also if you have account there. 

 

 

Can confirm the same is happening to me, using TIR5 with updated software and this issue only started with the new update. Its not the end of the world I can disable the roll axis until its fixed, I'll probably lose a few degrees of view in some planes but I'm flying he111's atm so I'm not going to miss much

[Tag777]

Same problem and for me also when I look back I have a zoom that is really annoying. I have to move my head very carefully to avoid the zoom effect.

 

P.S.: I use TrackIR

Edited March 19, 2018 by Tag777

[=STP=Darrylx444]

6 hours ago, Remontti said:

I have inverted roll also when turning head over 90 degrees. Using Trackir 5 and TrackclipPro. 

 

In 1CAG_Darrylx444s video the other sims seem to work ok. But I get this inverted roll in Trackir before I even start IL-2. Can others confirm this?

 

I noticed that someone posted this this also at Naturalpoints forum but it was not mentioned if he was playing IL-2. Maybe it would be good idea to bumb that forum post also if you have account there. 

 

 

Hi Remontti,

 

Yes, the TrackIR 3D view has always displayed roll axis inverted too, when looking back (like BOS does now in-game). Nothing changed there recently.

The last actual TIR software release was 2 years ago https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/downloads/

The other "game updates" you see in TIR from time to time are just additions to the game profile list, I think.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything TIR can (or should) do to adapt itself to the latest bugged version of Il2 BOS. IMO, anything they did now would just create the same problem in all the other games. I am not a programmer, so I could be wrong of course.

 

PS: I like your avatar - that happened to me once lol.

[=420=Syphen]

Got my canned support ticket reply "we didn't do it" message.

 

Hope they still fix it. It's so disorienting and I like to have a little roll. 

[=STP=MidnightOverture]

16 hours ago, Remontti said:

I have inverted roll also when turning head over 90 degrees. Using Trackir 5 and TrackclipPro. 

 

In 1CAG_Darrylx444s video the other sims seem to work ok. But I get this inverted roll in Trackir before I even start IL-2. Can others confirm this?

 

I noticed that someone posted this this also at Naturalpoints forum but it was not mentioned if he was playing IL-2. Maybe it would be good idea to bumb that forum post also if you have account there. 

 

Absolutely can confirm. Can't say I've tried other sims yet with TrackIR since this issue started, but it most definitely registers on mine. There's even a bit of an oddity in the X axis where there's acceleration when leaning to the right, but it's cut in half to the left. I think I saw someone say something similar previously. It's peculiar.

[Exon]

10 hours ago, [CPT]HawkeyeP said:

Got my canned support ticket reply "we didn't do it" message.

 

Hope they still fix it. It's so disorienting and I like to have a little roll. 

 

They took quite the time before answering you, didn't they? 

 

I'm so surprised they still don't acknowledge that something must have gone wrong during this patch, especially with so many now saying they have this problem. 

 

So keep sending the tickets to let them know. 

[Panthera]

Same issue here, can't believe they aren't ackowledging this?

[Lemon]

is it possible it has to do with the camera, cinematic file or smoothness thing in the game not directly to the irtracking, so that s why they say they did nt touched it ?

i say cause when i look behind the view is ok for a short moment, and event if i don t move my head a bit, the view is slowly rolling on ... i mean my opentrack dont send

any data to roll and the view is rolling by itself very slowly in my case, and it is worst on the right hand side.

Also, talking about cinematic , check in your starup.cfg file,  mine was set to ON ( cinematic = 1 ) even if in the game it was nt ticked, can it be related to the problem ?

 

i apologies if my English, is nt easy to understand but i think you can see what i mean when i say i believe they dont touched the ir trackir files when they say but for sure

the camera smoothness in the ingame setting influence the view behavior, put it to 100% and you ll see, and i guess this file is not considerate as a track ir file...

 

[=420=Syphen]

1 hour ago, Lemon said:

is it possible it has to do with the camera, cinematic file or smoothness thing in the game not directly to the irtracking, so that s why they say they did nt touched it ?

i say cause when i look behind the view is ok for a short moment, and event if i don t move my head a bit, the view is slowly rolling on ... i mean my opentrack dont send

any data to roll and the view is rolling by itself very slowly in my case, and it is worst on the right hand side.

Also, talking about cinematic , check in your starup.cfg file,  mine was set to ON ( cinematic = 1 ) even if in the game it was nt ticked, can it be related to the problem ?

 

i apologies if my English, is nt easy to understand but i think you can see what i mean when i say i believe they dont touched the ir trackir files when they say but for sure

the camera smoothness in the ingame setting influence the view behavior, put it to 100% and you ll see, and i guess this file is not considerate as a track ir file...

 

 

I'll test that tonight.

[=STP=Darrylx444]

5 hours ago, Lemon said:

is it possible it has to do with the camera, cinematic file or smoothness thing in the game not directly to the irtracking, so that s why they say they did nt touched it ?

i say cause when i look behind the view is ok for a short moment, and event if i don t move my head a bit, the view is slowly rolling on ... i mean my opentrack dont send

any data to roll and the view is rolling by itself very slowly in my case, and it is worst on the right hand side.

Also, talking about cinematic , check in your starup.cfg file,  mine was set to ON ( cinematic = 1 ) even if in the game it was nt ticked, can it be related to the problem ?

 

i apologies if my English, is nt easy to understand but i think you can see what i mean when i say i believe they dont touched the ir trackir files when they say but for sure

the camera smoothness in the ingame setting influence the view behavior, put it to 100% and you ll see, and i guess this file is not considerate as a track ir file...

 

Worth a shot, but that didn't fix it for me. Changed all my camera settings including cinematic but same problem exists :-(

I don't have the "slowly rolling on" (drift?) thing you mentioned, tho.

[Lemon]

sorry, i did not  meant i had a fix, in my post a wanted to point that if the problem can not be in the ir tracking files of the game cause they did not touched it like they say, and i dont see why they would lie,  it must be in other files, maybe in the camera files, since that feature is for the camera but can influence the track ir behavior too ?  it cannot be a coincidence that so many got the same problem with different track ir  software at the same time, lol

for now i play without the roll but i really wish to have it back someday , it s why i m still trying to understand what it could be...

cheers !

 

 

[JG4_Karl_Gratz]

16 hours ago, 19//Rekt said:

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion Busdriver...to be honest I've had a lot of problems with TrackIR jumping around on me, both before and after this patch. Turning off the roll axis seems to have really stabilized it. Even if 1C fixes the roll input issue I will probably leave it turned off. Feels more like my own head LOL.

To suggest to turn off roll rate as fix for a game problem that is under responsibility of programmers and let them go away with the excuse "we didn´t programm this" is a bad solution! Same would be to suggest to switch to monochrome mode when they had troubles with getting the colours right.

[=RAW=Tobermory]

On 14/03/2018 at 11:56 PM, ex0n said:

 

Which version are you using?

I'm using the one that's tailored for TrackHat.

im using Track hat version and i have no issues. isn't   there options in the setting to prevent inverting ? 

[=RAW=Tobermory]

ok so i tried setting my curves to this and it seems to work now. let us know if it fixes yours 

[=420=Syphen]

2 hours ago, Brave=Hollow-Man said:

ok so i tried setting my curves to this and it seems to work now. let us know if it fixes yours 

 

So... you set your roll axis to 1:1 ratio. Record and post a video demonstrating that this is working for you - because I can assure you it does not work in TrackIR or OpenTrack.

[=RAW=Tobermory]

12 hours ago, [CPT]HawkeyeP said:

 

So... you set your roll axis to 1:1 ratio. Record and post a video demonstrating that this is working for you - because I can assure you it does not work in TrackIR or OpenTrack.

Yeahh sorry.. i thought it had sorted it but i was wrong 

[palamud]

Looks like the difference is in the axis of rotation. New updated BoS uses the axis of the tilted head as axis of rotation, and before the update it used vertical axis.

[=STP=Darrylx444]

9 minutes ago, palamud said:

Looks like the difference is in the axis of rotation. New updated BoS uses the axis of the tilted head as axis of rotation, and before the update it used vertical axis.

 

Sorry, I don't understand this statement exactly. If you meant that the frame of reference (for further head movement inputs) moves along with the orientation of the user's head, then I think that was always the case.

 

Like even now, if you face backwards then shift (=slide) your head left, the screen shows your view to the back and then shifting to the left (not right) according to the way your virtual face is pointing (not the aircraft seat). That is the correct response.

 

The only difference since BoS 3.001 that I see, is now when you face backwards then tilt (=roll) your head left, the screen shows your view to the back then tilting to the right (=wrong way). So I guess just the roll axis alone does not "follow" your virtual facing direction any more, but rather stays put relative to the aircraft seat instead. That is the problem in a nutshell, from my observations.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Same issue here.  Very distracting when trying to clear your own 6.

[palamud]

1 hour ago, 1CAG_Darrylx444 said:

 

Sorry, I don't understand this statement exactly. If you meant that the frame of reference (for further head movement inputs) moves along with the orientation of the user's head, then I think that was always the case.

 

Like even now, if you face backwards then shift (=slide) your head left, the screen shows your view to the back and then shifting to the left (not right) according to the way your virtual face is pointing (not the aircraft seat). That is the correct response.

 

The only difference since BoS 3.001 that I see, is now when you face backwards then tilt (=roll) your head left, the screen shows your view to the back then tilting to the right (=wrong way). So I guess just the roll axis alone does not "follow" your virtual facing direction any more, but rather stays put relative to the aircraft seat instead. That is the problem in a nutshell, from my observations.

 

By rotation I meant vertical rotation from front view to back view. If you tilt your head to right, and then rotate your body 180 degrees on its vertical axis, your head will still be tilted to it's right. But if you rotate only your head 180 degrees on its own tilted axis it will end up tilted to it's left, not right.

 

But you are right , no matter the axis of rotation, when you face backwards and then tilt your head, the view tilts the wrong way. And it happens in trackIR itself, no matter which game title you select. And you can see that if you turn 90 degrees to left or right, tilting your head does not  tilt the view. I mean 90 degrees in TrackIR.

Edited March 23, 2018 by palamud

[=STP=Darrylx444]

Yep, as I mentioned somewhere above yesterday I think, TrackIR has always displayed it that (wrong) way in its 3D view. There is even a video of it from 2 years ago here: 

 

 

Nonetheless, all the game devs implemented it correctly in their games, prior to Bos 3.001 anyway.

 

[palamud]

It seems like roll happens only in its own two-dimensional plane, it does not turn with jaw. That's why it diminishes at 90 degrees and inverts at 180.

[=STP=Darrylx444]

Agreed. The roll axis somehow got de-coupled from the viewer's virtual head and just attached to the aircraft seat instead.

[HenHawk]

So glad I found this thread by chance, I thought I had gone a tad crazy. Completely reworked a trackir profile I had been using for years after this patch. I kept getting a weird (now I know roll inversion) when I was checking mainly my 4-5 o’clock. My work around was to adjust some sensitivities and tilt my head a tad different than I’ve done in the past, which took some practice. Seems to work well, but I’ll try to disable roll when I get a chance and see how that goes, too. What a strange bug!

[deckerrunner]

Hi i seem ok  trackir 5 but ive never had roll on ,all the rest,i have on  just not roll? ~s

[=420=Syphen]

53 minutes ago, deckerrunner said:

Hi i seem ok  trackir 5 but ive never had roll on ,all the rest,i have on  just not roll? ~s

 

We know that TrackIR/OpenTrack works for X,Y,Z, Pitch and Yaw. The only thing that has broken is the roll axis.

[EAF_51_FOX]

err.. I respect everyone choice of settings, but people here frustrated by this bug on roll feature should consider that "roll view" is completely unrealistic: try to look further any obyect and incline your head: do you see the obyect rolling to any side? 

no. because this is the marvellous "thing" named brain + hears otholits function.

[=STP=Darrylx444]

2 hours ago, EAF_51_FOX said:

err.. I respect everyone choice of settings, but people here frustrated by this bug on roll feature should consider that "roll view" is completely unrealistic: try to look further any obyect and incline your head: do you see the obyect rolling to any side? 

no. because this is the marvellous "thing" named brain + hears otholits function.

 

Interesting discussion point, as it pertains to real life vision. Thanks for sharing.

 

Similarly, it is not realistic to be able to pivot my virtual head 180 degrees each way to look straight backwards (like an owl) while strapped into a cockpit, but I really would miss that ability in all these games, if it were removed or broken at some point. I am glad that none of them impose anthropomorphic limits onto the TrackIR motion (actually, Elite Dangerous does a little bit).

 

Anyway, in the game roll input is not primarily used to change the perceived angle of a particular object we are viewing. That doesn't help me much usually.

 

Where it does help me is in aligning the view to best fit the scene or subject matter I wish to keep in frame.

Most monitors are 16:9 (W:H), or even higher aspect ratio for those with multi-monitor setups. The human eyesight area ratio is a bit less, but similar.

Tilting (rolling) my head allows me to naturally look at the complete area I wish to, if it doesn't fit the non-tilted view.

I find this can be important especially when combined with barriers to vision such as canopy frame, seat headrest, etc.

 

But like you say, everyone has their own preferences that are equally valid to them.

Edited March 24, 2018 by 1CAG_Darrylx444

[Solmyr]

Same problem as OP here, hoping for a fix soon.

[Swing]

Same problem with TrackIR 5 here...

[=420=Syphen]

On 3/23/2018 at 5:06 PM, EAF_51_FOX said:

err.. I respect everyone choice of settings, but people here frustrated by this bug on roll feature should consider that "roll view" is completely unrealistic: try to look further any obyect and incline your head: do you see the obyect rolling to any side? 

no. because this is the marvellous "thing" named brain + hears otholits function.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds brash but... Have you never taxied a taildragger while being strapped into a harness before in real life?  You absolutely roll your head, usually out the open window (or cockpit if in an open air biplane).

 

Also, while being strapped pretty tightly into a cockpit harness of a WW2 fighter aircraft, and trying to look hard over your shoulder - I guarantee you that will use some degree of headroll because as Darryl mentioned, we are not owls. 

Edited March 30, 2018 by [CPT]HawkeyeP