Fauster Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 Could someone with some software talent please make some energy maneuvering charts for each fighter? I think the War Thunder-esque days of describing planes as turn-fighters and boom and zoomers can be misleading and the EM chart is the best way to show a fighter aircraft's performance. An example being that you could call a FW190 or P-40 a turn fighter in the sense that they can out turn the competition and high speeds. An example for the F-16 is attached. I think it would be helpful to all pilots to see the EM for all fighters at at least 2 altitudes (prob 1500m and 4500m). Obviously I'm just some good idea fairy proposing this with no ability to deliver but I hope some of you out there know how to make something like this 2
Panthera Posted March 8, 2018 Posted March 8, 2018 (edited) Holtzauge has already made some very nice doghouse plots showing the Ps=0 and VnE for for several of the ingame fighters. A complete EM chart like the one above with everything from radius, rate, load factor & Ps =><0 curves is a lot of extra work, esp. getting them all to fit on one graph. Edited March 8, 2018 by Panthera
Fauster Posted March 8, 2018 Author Posted March 8, 2018 I'll PM him to see if we can have this thread host the pics all in one easy to find spot
SCG_OpticFlow Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 17 hours ago, FFS_Fauster said: Could someone with some software talent please make some energy maneuvering charts for each fighter? I think the War Thunder-esque days of describing planes as turn-fighters and boom and zoomers can be misleading and the EM chart is the best way to show a fighter aircraft's performance. An example being that you could call a FW190 or P-40 a turn fighter in the sense that they can out turn the competition and high speeds. An example for the F-16 is attached. I think it would be helpful to all pilots to see the EM for all fighters at at least 2 altitudes (prob 1500m and 4500m). Obviously I'm just some good idea fairy proposing this with no ability to deliver but I hope some of you out there know how to make something like this Why do you call that turn rate chart "EM Chart"? E-M model was developed by col. Boyd and others to compare planes with different capabilities... For intro -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy–maneuverability_theory
Panthera Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 4 hours ago, OpticFlow said: Why do you call that turn rate chart "EM Chart"? E-M model was developed by col. Boyd and others to compare planes with different capabilities... For intro -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy–maneuverability_theory Because the chart shows way more than just turn rate....
SCG_OpticFlow Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 5 hours ago, Panthera said: Because the chart shows way more than just turn rate.... But what are the E and the M in that chart?
Panthera Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, OpticFlow said: But what are the E and the M in that chart? Energy Management, that's what said chart is all about. You've got VnE, Ps=<0<, load factor & radius at specific speeds all in one chart, and that's what we refer to as an EM diagram. Your E is your speed, and all the nice curves are for Managing said E. Edited March 9, 2018 by Panthera
SCG_OpticFlow Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Panthera said: Energy Management, that's what said chart is all about. You've got VnE, Ps=<0<, load factor & radius at specific speeds all in one chart, and that's what we refer to as an EM diagram. Your E is your speed, and all the nice curves are for Managing said E. I agree, it's a nice chart to have...
Panthera Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 1 minute ago, OpticFlow said: I agree, it's a nice chart to have... Indeed, as of yet you can't get a better visual illustration showing so many things at once
Panthera Posted March 9, 2018 Posted March 9, 2018 (edited) I should actually correct myself, M usually stands for Maneuverability, not management, eventhough the latter is exactly what the chart is for Edited March 10, 2018 by Panthera 1
Holtzauge Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 Here is a La-5FN and Me-109G6 comparison I did earlier. 1 1 1
Holtzauge Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Links to various doghouse charts and posts for the P-51D, Me-109K4 and Fw-190D9 from DCS forum: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2232943&postcount=469 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2172811&postcount=184 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2172921&postcount=187 https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2167631&postcount=154 Edited March 10, 2018 by Holtzauge 1
Panthera Posted March 10, 2018 Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Top dollar stuff Holtzauge, although as you probably know I'm using quite a bit lower a Clmax for the P-51 at maneuvering speeds so I get some very different results there That the P-51 would able to achieve the same Clmax as the 109 just doesn't seem plausible IMHO Edited March 10, 2018 by Panthera
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