Max Hastings Bomber command

[Wolf8312]

Must say I bought this audio-book kind of on impulse, but I highly recommend it. I have a backlog of audio books now (case red the fall of france, carrier pilot, Bomber, and D-day through German eyes) but after giving all of them a fair crack, Bomber command was the one that really compelled me. I fly missions in VR now with one earbud for the game sounds, and the other listening to the tales of the real pilots!

 

The book is a great blend of both the political, and personal, is reasonably objective (though Hastings like many British historians/history tends to lionize Churchill too much IMO) and never dwells for too long on any one aspect before switching the pace.

 

The personal accounts, and stories, are fascinating and at times very moving. I have never agreed with the policy of targeting German cities, but I can well understand in wartime when you see the enemies planes over your own cities murdering your own children, a society would want to hit back in any way possible. Bomber Harris seemed like a real psychopath though! A policeman stopped him for speeding once and told him 'you could of killed someone' to which he replied 'young man I kill thousands of people every night!'

 

Must recommend too getting the audible version of the book. A really superb narration by Barnaby Edwards, I should point out! Many great military audio books fall down because of weak narration, with accents that sound silly and pantomime, or just because the narrators tone/personality/charisma doesn't properly convey the gravity, and seriousness of the topic, but Barnaby with subtle intonations manages to really convey the emotions of the pilots.

 

I don't really fly bombers in BOS, and to be honest it always seems as if this forum is mainly concerned with the fighters (right or wrong?).

 

What a terrifying ordeal though. Not simply to fly one of those missions but to have to do it time, and time again after knowing full well, from prior experience how truly terrifying, and perilous it actually was. I often wonder if there has ever been a keen and eager professional soldier, who once he finally got into battle, didn't think to himself oops! 

 

As a crew member in a bomber you would -very much like the victims of the bombings themselves would be- feel utterly at the mercy of God I think. I'd much rather be a fighter pilot, as they -being so concentrated on the task of killing the enemy- I reckon would have felt more in control of their own destiny whereas bomber crews could do nothing but sit there and think about dying in the icy seas, or the flak, or 109's!

 

I remember a Vietnam fighter/jet pilot saying something like 'at first you're fearful and full of adrenaline but soon you're just working on pure hatred of the enemy in front of you.' But I can imagine that very focus can take you away from yourself, and your own fear for a little while, whereas a bomber crew would have nothing to do but think! Rather like how it feels much safer to actually ride a motorbike than it does to sit on the back of one!    

Does make me stop and think good lord I'm glad this is not real!

 

I really hope the new campaign will have a survival mode that means when you die you're dead and lose all scores etc. Just to see how long one can survive!

 

As even on a game, actually having a life to lose, not only builds up the tension (more with every mission you get through) and would make things more nerve racking, but I think will also force people to fly in a more realistic tactical/strategic manner. People would really try to think about how to get in and out again!

 

With no penalty whatsoever for dying, I fly like a total tool, and can rarely stop myself taking risks that no real pilot would ever have taken!  

 

 Anyway before I start rambling, any other good recommendations for future reference just let me know...

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Wolf8312

[Zippy-do-dar]

Thanks i will look out for this title

 

Have you read  bomber  by len deighton

[Wolf8312]

7 minutes ago, Zippy-do-dar said:

Thanks i will look out for this title

 

Have you read  bomber  by len deighton

 

I have it on audio-book. I like it but as I tend to listen when driving in short bursts, it was a little hard to keep track of all the characters. It's one I would need to sit down and concentrate more on I think!

Edited March 6, 2018 by Wolf8312

[DaveP63]

I have it in hard back. Quite the good book indeed.

[SqueakyS]

Finished the audio book just last week and I thoroughly agree with your post. Its very critical of strategic bombing (rightly so) but still manages to portray the crews as bravely doing a job they were led to believe was winning the war by higher-ups who should have realised area bombing doesn't work as soon as the Battle of Britain ended.  

[Wolf8312]

Yes all on audible.

 

Well Panzer commander may well be my next audiobook then, though I do have a crazy backlog now! Would be great if someone could make a truly great tank simulator, but then we'd probably all buying tank peripherals! I spend enough on flight sims!

 

Another great one is The rise and fall of the third Reich. I think the best History books are those that manage to tell a story, and capture all the personalities involved and 'the rise and fall' will always be a book (I have both audio and paper back) I go back to again and again. That is another book with superb and authoritative narration by Grover Gardner. 

 

I'd love to get the blitzkrieg legend on audible though! A great book but the title and premise is a little disingenuous I think, as if blitzkrieg is the concept of hitting the enemy at his weakest point breaking through en-mass, destroying/disrupting his supply lines and surrounding him then it was no legend. But it does really very vividly illustrate how so narrow and at times just plain lucky the German victory was.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Wolf8312

[Lensman]

On 06/03/2018 at 5:34 PM, Zippy-do-dar said:

Have you read  bomber  by len deighton

 

A superb book and one of the best involving aviation let alone WWII aerial bombing.

I'd also recommend 'Yeager' (General Yeager's autobiography), especially if you like the P51.

Also 'A Man on the Moon' by Andrew Chaikin the definitive story of the Apollo programme and its flyers.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Lensman

[Porkins]

Anything by Max Hastings is good, he's a brilliant writer.

 

And I absolutely recommend Blitzkrieg Legend! One of the most insightful books I've ever read to explain Germany's astounding victory over France. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Porkins

[Wolf8312]

On 3/8/2018 at 7:46 AM, Sambot88 said:

 

What's great about Panzer Commander is that von Luck is a truly likeable fellow, and the narrator who does the audiobook captures him nicely I feel. There's not a ton of nitty gritty battle stuff in there, but there is a metric ton of cultural information other little things of historical value that people interested in WW2 might find fascinating. I certainly got a kick out of it.

 

Rise and Fall is a supposed classic that I've never read. I'll have to make that my next history book!

 

 

I often find it better when there isn't too much description of the battles themselves as strangely for a WW2 buff, I find reading about the battles themselves often rather tedious or underwhelming. Might be why I hated lord of the rings! Whether watching a movie, or reading though, I always find actual battles themselves to be rather dull. It's why in my opinion the first (modern remake) planet of the apes blew the other two out of the water. Why I believe the first was great movie, the second a failure, and the third somewhere in the middle!

 

Perhaps its because I know full well the poor guy is attempting to explain an utterly ineffable experience that literally defies all verbal description,  but I think it's just not something that is that easy to make interesting which is probably why all the old WW2 soldiers got 'Uncle Albert' reputations for boring the pants of people with their stories! I'm sure some people can make it interesting but they would need to be selective. I actually have another book written by a guy who was on the Russian front, and I stopped listening to it, because it was such a constant A to B to C, blow, by blow, account of battle and I just felt lost in the end, thinking where are we and what's happening! 

I agree the culture, their ideas, and beliefs, and attitudes in that time period is always much more interesting to read about, as well as things that help people to realize that soldiers on either side of the divide were just normal people living in extreme situations.

 

Other Books (some a re audible) I recommend (I've read a great many but these stand out)

Rise and Fall of the third Reich

The blitzkrieg legend

Inside the third Reich

Albert Speer his battle with truth

Hitler Was my friend

The second World War Antony Beevor (a really great book but it actually leaves one feeling that there is no such thing as innate goodness)

Hitler Ascent

Forgotten Voices of the blitz (never actually finished this one but I know its perfect for members of this forum and I will go back to it)

 

[MiloMorai]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 12:34 PM, Zippy-do-dar said:

Thanks i will look out for this title

 

Have you read  bomber  by len deighton

 

I hope it is better than his Fighter book which is utter trash.

[Feathered_IV]

I just finished listening to Jonathan Dimbleby's Battle of the Atlantic.  That was a very good one.  I'm hoping to find some audiobook memoirs of RN destroyer crews but haven't discovered any as yet.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Feathered_IV

[DD_Arthur]

5 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

  I'm hoping to find some audiobook memoirs of RN destroyer crews but haven't discovered any as yet.

 

@Feathered; not sure if this will help but have you seen the Imperial War Museum's digital archive?  Packed with goodies.......

 

http://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/2530

[TheBlackPenguin]

I recommend:

 

Blitzed

Drugs in the Third Reich 

 

https://www.audible.com/pd/History/Blitzed-Audiobook/B06X9ZHMB4?ref=a_a_search_c3_lProduct_1_1&pf_rd_p=e81b7c27-6880-467a-b5a7-13cef5d729fe&pf_rd_r=2H1V31A0XSG44MGNZCTW&

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/books/review/blitzed-drugs-third-reich-norman-ohler.html

 

Not so much a book, but I recommend at least giving a free trial of Historyhit.tv a go:

 

https://tv.historyhit.com/

 

The episodes Lancaster and Out of the Inferno, Surviving Dresden should be of great interest.

[Rebel_Scum]

Greater focus on surface engagements than aviation in this book, but an excellent read nonetheless. 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Rebel_Scum