Did you try the 37mm big gun?

[senseispcc]

I did and boum did the two trucks at onces...

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2013 by senseispcc

[ll./JG77_JadeBandit]

The 37mm and 109 gun pods are a lot of fun, wont take down a light tank but it shreds everything else. I kind of surprised by the sound and feel of the 37mm cannon, seems very light with very little recoil when fired.

[dkoor]

I reckon that will change.

 

I immediately noticed the absence of heavier recoil.

Edited December 29, 2013 by dkoor

[DD_Arthur]

I'm pretty sure recoil effects are not present in the game yet. 

[Finkeren]

I'm currently on vacation and haven't tried out the new gun, but I must say, that I don't get, why people think the recoil force should be so violent? I just tried to calculate based on Wikipedia numbers (so take it with a grain of salt), and it seems that continous fire from the Sh-37 only produces a recoil force of 2000N - almost exactly double that of the ShVAK. The recoil force from firing the Sh-37 is thus the same as that og the twin cannon of the La-5. Cutting the throttle and then firing the entire ammo supply in one burst should slow the LaGG by less than 12 km/h, if my numbers are correct.

 

Given that the gun is in a pretty solid engine mount and placed exactly central on the planes axis, I don't see why the effect of the recoil from firing a couple if rounds at a time would be very noticeable, except if the gun was mounted poorly.

[Fifi]

Don't have any real idea about the recoil matter, even though i tend to agree with Finkeren post above.

Only thing is i'm guessing rockets could have/give plane some more noticeable recoil...kind of with DCS P51 rockets.

But Laggs rockets seems very small compared to P51 ones, so... 

 

As about global BOS weaponery, my actual thinking is...not very clear, with a grain of scepticism 

Meaning i find it VERY easy to hit and destroy anything in actual state of game (not talking about tanks - didn't tried enough long)

Few times, was very surprised when pressing the trigger in a hurry (not very controled) and saw i badly hitted the ennemy, even though i was sure to miss him at this instant!

Maybe A LOT of dispersion? Don't really know...but still BOS planes give me a quite incredible great fire power feeling, greater/stronger than in any other simulation 

Something very noticeable is when i manage to get slightly behind the ennemy, i know he is already dead. And it's not very good IMHO.

Edited December 29, 2013 by Fifi

[Finkeren]

Actually Fifi the rockets are completely recoil-less. They generate thrust by blowing the gasses from the combusting fuel backwards at a high velocity. The aircraft will only feel a tiny, tiny bit of this blowback, hardly enough to notice.

[DD_Arthur]

Quick Google translate of Han - over on the Russian forum as usual - two days ago;

 

Slightly inside the kitchen - another month CAM gygy ( Petrovich that is) will be busy designing engines for aircraft project. Then, with the end of February , we will give you all different kinds of secondary and unimportant but nice features - trimmer recoil contrail , devices, selector of bombs and missiles , missile launch a separate button , well, stuff. And this process will continue until the release . And what is more, a lower priority , and after him, because by custom PC- geymdeva , work on the final polishing of the project and adding cherries rasposlednih proihsodit and after release, although everything you need is to release or even before.

 

Albert about this , by the way , spoke repeatedly .

[Finkeren]

AFAIK the accuracy problems of the Soviet 37mm were with the twin NS-37s on the IL-2.

Because the guns were mounted under the wings the recoil would produce a yawing motion, and since the guns weren't properly synchronised (meaning they did not fire each round at exactly the same time) and since the rate of fire was so low, this would cause the IL-2 to oscillate back and forth in the yawing plane while firing, throwing off the aim after the first shot.

 

On the LaGG on the other hand, the Sh-37 is placed exactly along the axis of movement and can thus only push the aircraft directly backwards, simply negating some of the thrust. The only way it could throw off the aim was, if the gun was very poorly seated in its mount, which seems very strange for an engine mounted gun.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

Quick Google translate of Han - over on the Russian forum as usual - two days ago;

 

Slightly inside the kitchen - another month CAM gygy ( Petrovich that is) will be busy designing engines for aircraft project. Then, with the end of February , we will give you all different kinds of secondary and unimportant but nice features - trimmer recoil contrail , devices, selector of bombs and missiles , missile launch a separate button , well, stuff. And this process will continue until the release . And what is more, a lower priority , and after him, because by custom PC- geymdeva , work on the final polishing of the project and adding cherries rasposlednih proihsodit and after release, although everything you need is to release or even before.

 

 

 

Albert about this , by the way , spoke repeatedly .

Thanks for finding and translating this. There is a lot of good information there including the time frames.

 

Cheers!

 

Cheers!

[SimFreak]

Still have issues with hitting things....but I expected bigger flash while shooting at night.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 It is about the recoil causing the aiming getting more difficult. If you read about the Yak-9 having the 37mm cannon, they could not fire off more than a few shots before aim was totally off. Recoil affects a plane in a different way than if it would be on a vehicle for example. Another issue I have is that the LagG-3 37mm has almost zero dispersion like the ShvaK. It seems they have lessened the spread of MG17's a bit, need to test other guns as well.

[Finkeren]

I understand what it's about Flanker, but I'm asking, why people would think, that the recoil of a centrally positioned engine mounted gun would throw off aiming rather than just slow the aircraft down a tiny bit?

 

Dispersion is another matter than recoil and since I haven't tried out this version yet, I can't tell if it feels off, but for an autocannon specifically designed for taking out armoured targets, it seems odd, that they would tolerate significant dispersion since any anti-tank gun depends on a great level of accuracy.

 

As for the experience with Yak 37mm, I have read a lot of anecdotes as well, but I have to ask: If recoil was such an issue, why did they mount an even more powerful 45mm gun to the light Yak-9 airframe? Surely the issue with the Sh-37 and NS-37 must have been something other than simply the recoil force?

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Because it will throw your aim off. For example when I worked on the Mig-21bis the Gsh-23mm cannon had a recoil at excess of 3500kg. The M61A-2 on the F/A-18C has even greater recoil. On a jet with that much thrust it can not be felt that much yet. GAU-8 on the A-10C causes effects that needed systems to counter it etc. What I mean is that if there is no recoil and dispersion whatsoever we will see the same poop as in original IL-2, the ultimate 1km+ sniper shots in Air-to-Air combat that in RL were next to impossible. NO gun has lower than low dispersion and especially when fitted on an aircraft with rudimentary systems used for aiming.

[Finkeren]

As I said, I haven't tried out the Sh-37 in BoS yet, and if it is indeed a "rail gun" then it should ofc be fixed.

 

But:

 

The Sh-37 is not a GAU-8, nor is it a Gsh-23, it is extremely slow firing compared to both of those. The GAU-8 has a recoil force of more than half the maximum thrust of the A-10s engines. The Sh-37 only produces a recoil force of some 2000 - 2500 Newton (Depending on the amount of expelled propellant, which I don't have numbers for) That's just twice the amount of the ShVAK, meaning that firing the Sh-37 is more or less the same as firing the main armament of the La-5. For an aircraft weighing close to 3 metric tons, that's not really very significant.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Aren't there sufficient accounts of the 37mm having sufficient recoil to throw the accuracy off when firing more then 2 or 3 rounds in a burst.

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

Aren't there sufficient accounts of the 37mm having sufficient recoil to throw the accuracy off when firing more then 2 or 3 rounds in a burst.

 

In the wing-mounted configuration on the IL2 perhaps, but no when mounted shooting from the very centre of gravity through the propeller shaft.

Edited December 30, 2013 by 79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer

[bivalov]

ricochet from game, in addition to rumors about ".50 vs. tigers"...

[Finkeren]

Aren't there sufficient accounts of the 37mm having sufficient recoil to throw the accuracy off when firing more then 2 or 3 rounds in a burst.

 

There might well be, but I sure haven't seen it. All I have read are the same few anecdotal stories, which don't actually address what the issue was. The thing is: With an engine mounted gun, the recoil shouldn't throw off the aim, because the force vector is on exactly the same axis as the thrust. Besides, as has been shown, the recoil force from sustained fire from the Sh-37 is actually not that strong, in the absolute worst case scenario the acceleration (or rather deceleration) is on the order of 1 m/s² which is rather miniscule.

 

It might well be, that there were other issues with the early Sh-37 on the LaGG and Yak which would throw off the aim. Perhaps the gun was improperly seated in its mount, but I kinda doubt it. 

[Nonolem]

Given that the gun is in a pretty solid engine mount and placed exactly central on the planes axis, I don't see why the effect of the recoil from firing a couple if rounds at a time would be very noticeable, except if the gun was mounted poorly.

 

You are correct only if the gun axis is going through the center of gravity of the airplane. If not, the recoil would generate a momentum.

 

And I don't think the axis of the propeller is going through the center of gravity. It must be slightly above, because this axis is relatively high on the LaGG 3.

 

This is a 38% version, and not yet implemented, in my opinion.

[Finkeren]

You are correct only if the gun axis is going through the center of gravity of the airplane. If not, the recoil would generate a momentum.

 

And I don't think the axis of the propeller is going through the center of gravity. It must be slightly above, because this axis is relatively high on the LaGG 3.

 

Pardon my ignorance, but if there is a thrust vector pointing in one direction and a recoil vector pointing in exactly the opposite direction on the same axis, wouldn't the recoil simply cancel out a bit of the thrust?

[Nonolem]

Yes, in theory, but there is other things to take in consideration... And other vectors. All this depends of a lot of parameters. Most of dynamic problems are not simple.

For instance, if the speed of the airplane is constant, you can consider it as an isolated system : your thrust vector is annihilated by the friction force vector.

To sum it up, the canon's recoil adds a force (and a momentum, if its axis etc.) to the system. So the airplane will react to it.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Nonolem

[Rama]

Pardon my ignorance, but if there is a thrust vector pointing in one direction and a recoil vector pointing in exactly the opposite direction on the same axis, wouldn't the recoil simply cancel out a bit of the thrust?

Nonolem is right to say that if this axis don't pass through the gravity center, then each force exercing exactly along this axis generate a momentum.

If an opposite force (recoil) combined to the thrust force on the same axes generate a lesser "thrust" force, then the momentum of this resulting "thrust" force will be different from the momentum of the initial thrust force.

So if the thrust force generate a momentum (which is countered by other aerodynamic momentums, including trim), then the recoil will modify this momentum, so breaking the previous momentum equilibrium and generating a pitch couple.

[Finkeren]

Ok, that makes sense to me, I believe you're right, but with the gun axis relatively close to the center of gravity (we're propably talking less than 50cm), there wouldn't be that much leverage to produce a muzzle climbing effect, and since the recoil force is already rather weak compared to the weight of the aircraft, I'll still claim that the recoil can't have thrown off the aim any worse than the two ShVAK cannon on the La-5, which produce about the same recoil force and are placed further from the center of gravity. Am I right in assuming this?

[79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer]

The vector represented by recoil (and the propeller shaft) is fairly close to the directional vector passing through the centre of gravity, I would assume they are less than a metre apart. Compared to wing mounted guns 2-3 meters from the COG, the angular momentum is rather small.

[Rama]

I'll still claim that the recoil can't have thrown off the aim any worse than the two ShVAK cannon on the La-5, which produce about the same recoil force and are placed further from the center of gravity. Am I right in assuming this?

Without doubt if the recoil force is the same.... and anyway the generated couple is most probably quite weak.

[Nonolem]

Yes, the canon mounted through the engine and the propeller is the best solution for the aiming, because the mount is rigid and the axis close to the gravity center. It must be why the engineers from Hispano-Suiza take several years to work on their "moteur canon" (they begin during WWI with the SPAD S XII), mounted for the first time on a serial airplane on the Dewoitine 501 in 1933. You can notice that the Klimov M105 is an improved version of the french engine Hispano Suiza 12Y, which was itself an improved version of the Dewoitine 501's HS 12xcrs (SSSR has bought a licence of the HS 12Y).

http://www.aviafrance.com/dewoitine-d-501-aviation-france-325.htm

To mount a canon in such way was not technically easy... Daimler Benz didn't manage to do it on the DB 601 on the Bf 109 E, even if it was planed to do so...

 

But an airplane, even heavy, will react as a horse moving on a 3D skating rink : every forces, every momentum, will move it.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Nonolem

[Emgy]

A few World of Tanks moments, and I don't only mean the Pz III pushing the engine-less Pz IV .

Edited December 31, 2013 by Calvamos

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 There are accounts on the Yak-9 for example not being able to fire off more than 2-4 shots of the 37mm gun without the aim being thrown off. Why would the LagG-3 be any different? P39 and it's 37mm caused such recoil that they could not fire a stream of bullets thus the plane was called "rocking chair". The Russian 45mm did not go farther than experiments due the adverse recoil effects etc. Just do a simple search with Google or whatever and you will find data and stuff about it. Maybe devs will comment on this, but if the implementation of these guns will be "rail gun" effect then bye. Saw enough of that poop in IL-2 and no need to get that to BoS either, it is so much better in every way so far and would like to see it be THE sim.

 

EDIT: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankbusters.htm Read that and you see what I mean.

Edited December 31, 2013 by LLv34_Flanker

[Volkoff]

The 37 MM is pretty neat. I like the trusty 20 mm best, out of the three canon options on the LaGG-3, though. MJ

[bivalov]

There are accounts on the Yak-9 for example not being able to fire off more than 2-4 shots of the 37mm gun without the aim being thrown off. Why would the LagG-3 be any different?

if i'm not mistaken, single burst for yak-9t little less, but no matter...

 

and why sh-37 on lagg-3 so? reason of - MUZZLE BRAKE on sh-37... - pls, just try to do your advice before posting...

 

The Russian 45mm did not go farther than experiments due the adverse recoil effects etc.

"В массовое производство Як-9К не запускался ввиду недостаточной надежности пушки." - plus i have quotes from docs with permanent intention to start production of 9k during 44-45, ie, of course, all not too simple as you want to think... 

 

Maybe devs will comment on this, but if the implementation of these guns will be "rail gun" effect then bye.

guys, again, of you really want friendly talks, PLS stop to writing posts like this - in game just NO recoil and it's will be so before end of february, how officially write devs, and looks like for all guns etc - and this is NOT insidious plans of "bad russkies/soviets" for humiliation of something... 

 

incredibly, sorry me, but it's looks like real paranoia without reasons by some users here, "red plans on capture of Europe", huh?  or world? you know what now no "state ussr" and planes with revolution for all world? hello, it's modern russia...  

 

and how we talk here - "надо почаще смотреть в зеркало и не валить с больной головы на здоровую" - just pogovorka for all sides, without insults...  

 

Ok, that makes sense to me, I believe you're right, but with the gun axis relatively close to the center of gravity (we're propably talking less than 50cm), there wouldn't be that much leverage to produce a muzzle climbing effect, and since the recoil force is already rather weak compared to the weight of the aircraft, I'll still claim that the recoil can't have thrown off the aim any worse than the two ShVAK cannon on the La-5, which produce about the same recoil force and are placed further from the center of gravity. Am I right in assuming this?

personally i cant say here nothing seriously... , but it was believed, officially, what even vya-23 was too much for fighters, mainly by recoil which bigger than of shvak, but this is can be one of proofs of "covert struggle of bulldogs" if you understand what i'm mean...

 

and simple, typical for USSR, imperfection of gun/designs of plane/gun at this moment without needful number of tests and solving of problems, but vya-23 and 37mm really had big recoil especially with long bursts and it's fact... but looks like you correct in total too, and problem of recoil it's and just bad after effects for engine, construction of plane etc = leak of oil, cracks etc, moreover sh-37 had muzzle brake, ns-37 no, ns-45 yes...

 

well, before including of recoil in next year, i think we discuss this question on russian forum with developers, and maybe got some answers with correct info for your/our conclusion and questions...

[AndyHill]

There's recoil with just about all types of weapons, but more powerful single shots are probably worse than a stream of smaller bullets. With a stream of small bullets you get a continuous force you might even try to compensate for by maneuvering, but the big cannons deliver all of their force in big, separate jolts. As mentioned earlier, the gun isn't firing through the CoG and since planes in air aren't exactly rigidly mounted, they have a tendency of swinging around when forces are applied.

 

I quickly (and probably wrong) calculated that the plane would lose a bit less than 1km/h of its speed when firing one shot - not a huge number, but considering the near instant deceleration I think you would feel it. Also it doesn't take much to throw off your aim significantly when firing at something several hundred meters away. Googling around the subject I noticed an anecdote about twin 37mm pulling an Il-2's nose down when fired in a shallow dive, which sounds a bit surprising to me. Personally having witnessed how twin 23mm claws though ground or rocks a truck when fired (a bit like these guys here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5qk0K2HyA0) I would expect a 37mm gun to kick an aircraft around a bit.

[dkoor]

I remember a few 37mm cannon jams in Il-2.

When I fired the other unjammed cannon aircraft would swing strongly... aim was one shell at a time.

Impossible to fire bursts.

[bivalov]

remember something about sh-37, on lagg, mainly from open sources -

Два звена (восемь самолетов) "ЛаГГов" в воздушном бою сбили из пушек три самолета противника. Летчики, участвовавшие в этом бою, восторженно отзывались о пушке, снаряды которой оставляли большие пробоины в плоскостях и фюзеляже вражеских бомбардировщиков. Однако, несмотря на тренировки, некоторые летчики в первой же атаке израсходовали все патроны. Выяснилось также, что при ведении огня из пушки длинными очередями "ЛаГГ" терял скорость. Подобное мы замечали и раньше, когда тренировались в стрельбе по наземным целям, но в бою это проявилось особенно отчетливо".

...

В период с 25 августа по 1 сентября 1942 года ЛаГГ-3 31213445 ...устойчиво пикировал под углом 60 с приборной скоростью 650 км/ч, но наивыгоднейшими углами были 30-40". Стрельба из 37-мм пушки не влияла на точность прицеливания, что было особенно важно в борьбе с бронетехникой.

 

here means comparision with ns-37 -

В июне-июле 1942 г. после проведения всесторонних исследований действенности вооружения штурмовика Ил-2 применительно к укоренившимся способам нанесения ударов по противнику специалистами НИП АВ ВВС КА была разработана более рациональная тактика его боевого применения, позволявшая значительно повысить эффективность бомбоштурмовых ударов.

...

"ЛаГГи" с пушками Ш-37 показали значительно лучшие результаты. Отдача при стрельбе из пушки Ш-37 в воздухе переносилась летчиком и самолетом легче, и очередь из 4-5 выстрелов получалась вполне прицельной.

 

one of quotes about il-2 with shfk-37, and in end good fieldmod for game... -

22 декабря 1942 г. состоялись полигонные стрельбы из ШФК-37 с Ил-2 в воздухе в ходе облета летным составом 688-го шап новых самоле¬тов. Летали пять летчиков разной квалификации. Оказалось, что кучность стрельбы из пушек была довольно приличной, хотя сама стрельба — неточной. Большая часть снарядов (из 153 штук) легла в 4—5 метрах в стороне от цели (щит в виде квадрата со стороной 6 м), остальные — в 12—15 м. Только командиру полка капитану Склярову удалось поразить щит двумя снарядами. Вторым по результативности оказался капитан Копаев. Низкий процент попадания в щит объясняется большими дис¬танциями стрельбы — начало стрельбы 800—900 м и окончание 500—400 м, а также «недостатками освоения техники пилотиро¬вания этим самолетом и ведения огня из пушек калибра 37 мм». Надо полагать, условия стрельбы в реальном бою были такими же или хуже. В выводах отчета летчики отмечали, что для поражения наземных целей из ШФК-37 прицельный огонь должен открываться на дистанции не более 500 м и вестись до 200—250 м очередями в 5—7 выстрелов. При этом «стрельба с самолетов Ил-2, вооруженных 37-мм пушками, производит большое моральное действие», а «применение огня из этих пу¬шек против танков даст лучший эффект, нежели авиабомбы».

Летчик--испытатель заместитель начальника ЛИС завода № 18 подполковник Е. Н. Ломакин в ходе приемо-сдаточных испытаний самолетов Ил-2 с ШФК-37 никаких особенностей в пилотировании и применении штурмовика не отмечал: «...1. Машина с пушками ШФК-37 устойчива в воздухе и ничем не отличается от машин серийного типа. 2. Для израсходования полного боекомплекта патронов необходимо делать не менее 4—5 заходов по 8—10 патронов в очереди. 3. Кучность попаданий при стрельбе в воздухе хорошая».

Анализ документов показывает, что основной причиной негативного отношения летчиков 688-го шап к противотанковому Ил-2 стала все же ненадежная работа автоматики пушки. Почти каждый второй вылет на боевое задание Ил-2 с ШФК-37 сопровождался отказом хотя бы одной из пушек. Это обстоятельство нарушало нормальную боевую работу полка.

«Большое количество поломок, задержек и отказов в работе пушек вызвало у летчиков неприятное чувство неуверенности в безотказной работе, и летчики поэтому часто с неохотой са¬дились на эти самолеты», — докладывал своему руководству старший техник военного представительства 18-го завода старший техник-лейтенант А. Г. Тишевский.

Положение осложнялось тем обстоятельством, что в полку отсутствовали запасные части к пушкам и ремонтный групповой комплект, так как завод № 18 отправил их по другому ад¬ресу. Соответственно бригада специалистов от ОКБ-15 не могла оперативно устранять отказы в работе и поломки пушек.

По этой причине после выхода из строя ряда деталей с трех самолетов пушки были сняты и они вылетали на боевые задания с бомбовой нагрузкой в 600 кг, 8 РС-32 и боекомплектом к пулеметам. Часть самолетов вылетала на боевые задания с одной исправной пушкой, а часть и с обеими неисправными пушками, используя в бою только реактивные снаряды, бомбы и пулеметы.

 

 

etc, just not have time for this...

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Again, MK.Bivalov. Not attacking you or "sowjets". I just stated that a BIG gun has recoil and it WILL affect the aim and other things. People just seem to want them to be "rail guns" and no vices at all. So as you said, in february we will know more as the FM is near complete with effects added. Just afraid that some users say "all is fine, keep this" and we get an incarnation of old IL-2 "features".

 

 Why I say old IL-2 poop is because when I was a part of a modding team I dug heavily into the FM etc. And oh boy what a mess they were for ALL sides. So I took the VVS planes and LagG-3 was a copy paste except a few very minor changes, LA-5 was a total mess with missing weights, fuel amounts and whatnot. And not to say the rather optimistic values put in there. German planes had their bad mistakes too in both good and bad, they were tuned down or up according to for example Kurfurst's page data..But the "red goggle syndrome" was very heavy on VVS planes, sorry to say that. You can imagine the outcry when I brought LaaLaa family back to NII VVS levels of performance The ONLY LaaLaa that was somewhat within specs was the La-7, it needed only very few tweaks and was fine as it was. Go figure.

 

 All I want is an accurate(within restrictions of a game) portrayal of things, not favoring Germans or Russians. The deciding factor in a game should be your skill, not developer made decisions of giving someone an edge intentionally or unintentionally. And please, do not say I know nothing about ex-CCCP stuff. Working with those things was a pain in the ass due somewhat poor quality in both construction and durability. Only things that were good: jet engines, ejection seats and guns. Electronics were so archaic, straight from the 50's or 60's and repairing was VERY difficult if impossible etc. It shone through that the mass production was favored over overall quality. The funny Uncle Stalin himself once said: Quantity in itself is quality.

 

 So let's keep on digging those archives and whatnot to make BoS something other sims have to look up on for the years to come. I think we all agree on that.

Edited December 31, 2013 by LLv34_Flanker

[bivalov]

ok, found here another interesting little quote about ns-37 and yak-9t - "Атаку малоразмерных целей (танки, артиллерия и минбатареи и т.д.) лучше всего было выполнять с пикирования под углами 30—40°, которые обеспечивали наибольшую точность стрельбы. Дальность начала стрельбы не должна была превышать 400— 600 м. На пикировании становилось возможным вести более продолжительный огонь как короткими очередями в 2—3 снаряда, так и длинной очередью в 6—8 снарядов без значительных отклонений на рассеивание. При этом хорошо видимая красная трасса снаряда позволяла корректировать огонь." - ie if even yak-9t could do 6-8 shots in one burst in dive, shooting with sh-37 in dive should be little better too, although something like this already could be in my post above...

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Good find Bivalov. But in game now you can fire off the whole belt of 37mm ammo without ANY adverse effects. I hope the last tunings to the FM/DM etc. in february will bring new data

[AndyHill]

What weapons are firing in this video (Says it's supposed to be Stuka, but I'm not convinced)?

Edited January 4, 2014 by AndyHill

[Jaws2002]

What weapons are firing in this video (Says it's supposed to be Stuka, but I'm not convinced)?

 

 

Most likely Hs-129 shooting the 30mm Mk101.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2014 by Jaws2002

[bivalov]

I hope the last tunings to the FM/DM etc. in february will bring new data

personally i absolutely not doubt, why should be otherwise? even in old il-2 have recoil, but which not depends on speed...

 

Why I say old IL-2 poop is because when I was a part of a modding team I dug heavily into the FM etc. And oh boy what a mess they were for ALL sides.

i absolutely agree with you about real mess in old il-2 for many planes, moreover, i tried to do something too, i mean what wanted official fixes after some my efforts, but looks like it's was vain and this is one of reasons why i'm now here...

 

And please, do not say I know nothing about ex-CCCP stuff.

and i not said this... where you found this? moreover, i too not think what ussr = strictly quality all time etc, this have and now...

 

So let's keep on digging those archives and whatnot to make BoS something other sims have to look up on for the years to come. I think we all agree on that.

of course... and belive me, i really try to doing this...