Dog-fighting in the Mig-3

[LLv44_Mprhead]

Say what? On what basis are you making that claim?

 

I agree that we should always read memoirs with a healthy does of skepticism, but why single out Japanese and Soviet ones?

Based on what military aviation books I have read and also interviews of fighter pilots. I was trying to find one made with japanese WW2 pilot but unfortunately couldn't find it so now you just have to take my word on it . Point was that when asked about the amount of aerial victories he was credited the answer was something like "since the story says this it must be so ;)" This of course is anecdotal but then again Japanese overclaiming is notorious and I am assuming that this translates also to memoirs.

About Soviets it's because the nature of society where good propaganda stories were in much higher value than truth and nothing to keep this tendency in check. Like story of 28 guardsmen. Or take air battle of Tiiksjärvi, according to Valtonen and C-F Geust Soviet air force claimed 7 Finnish brewsters shot down and 4 destroyed on ground when actually there was no FiAF loses at all and that Soviet pilot Solomatin claimed 5 of those and was later honoured with Hero of the Soviet Union.

[Panthera]

What I find odd is how well the MiG seems to turn ingame, it seems to handily beat the 109 F4 atm.  Now I know that the 109's are underperforming in turn rate atm and will be fixed, but still the MiG-3 turns surprisingly well.  Had a go in one vs a friend flying the Spitfire, and I was almost able to bag him in the turn. A little odd when the Russians put its 360 deg turn time at 23 sec, which was worse than what they got the Fw190 to do running at 1.3ata.

[Dakpilot]

There is a bit of a difference between propaganda and Pilot memoirs

 

it is a bit pointless to put down two entire Nations pilots with the stroke of a pen, there was overclaiming on all sides, and citing occasions could go on all week/month/year

 

15 sept 1940 RAF claimed 185 the actual figure was 60

 

therefore all RAF pilot memoirs should be regarded with a bucket of salt...USAAF and Luftwaffe also suffered many equally 'quotable' instances

 

better to leave this area of subject, 

 

it has nothing to do with dogfighting Mig-3 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[Finkeren]

What I find odd is how well the MiG seems to turn ingame, it seems to handily beat the 109 F4 atm. Now I know that the 109's are underperforming in turn rate atm and will be fixed, but still the MiG-3 turns surprisingly well. Had a go in one vs a friend flying the Spitfire, and I was almost able to bag him in the turn. A little odd when the Russians put its 360 deg turn time at 23 sec, which was worse than what they got the Fw190 to do running at 1.3ata.

The thing is: The MiG we have in the sim turns really well within a very specific speed range. If you keep it around 350-450 you have an incredibly maneuverable fighter, but once you dip below 300 it is rather awful and will get easily outturned by any 109.

 

Is this behavior correct? I can’t say. But the MiG was one of the aircraft the devs actually had access to during development (albeit fitted with a lower-performing Allison engine)

[Wolfram-Harms]

... the 109's are underperforming in turn rate atm and will be fixed...

 

Ah - nice news!

[HR_Tumu]

I agree super beautiful plane.

 

 

 

For me is a very good plane... only thing i miss is better performance at high altitude ( 7 or 8 k ) in old il2 you can win combats at high altitude due best perfomance... here bfs at  high altitude are like a rockets... maybe im wrong, but is my feedback.

[FTC_Riksen]

The thing is: The MiG we have in the sim turns really well within a very specific speed range. If you keep it around 350-450 you have an incredibly maneuverable fighter, but once you dip below 300 it is rather awful and will get easily outturned by any 109.

Is this behavior correct? I can’t say. But the MiG was one of the aircraft the devs actually had access to during development (albeit fitted with a lower-performing Allison engine)

In my tests, the Mig turns better than any 109 at any speed as well even the F4. Also the MiG seems too fast at low altitude and too slow at high altitude.

[Finkeren]

In my tests, the Mig turns better than any 109 at any speed as well even the F4. Also the MiG seems too fast at low altitude and too slow at high altitude.

 

I'll do some testing myself. As much as I fly the MiG it's actually one of the planes I've properly tested the least. 

 

About the MiG being too fast down low: I have tested that, and to me it seems ok, but with one caveat: I tested with both radiators fully open, because that is apparently how the historical tests of the aircraft were done. With fully open radiators, the speed on the deck is actually right on the money (a little under 500km/h on autumn map) If something is wrong, it is not the performance of the plane but rather the heat model, which allows us to close radiators too much with no negative consequences.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Imho the level flight test speed shouldn't be with full open radiators. We need the info in which rad settings it was done.

 

Whats usually done with full open rads are the climb tests I think.

Edited February 21, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Panthera]

The thing is: The MiG we have in the sim turns really well within a very specific speed range. If you keep it around 350-450 you have an incredibly maneuverable fighter, but once you dip below 300 it is rather awful and will get easily outturned by any 109.

 

Is this behavior correct? I can’t say. But the MiG was one of the aircraft the devs actually had access to during development (albeit fitted with a lower-performing Allison engine)

 

The MiG actually seems to turn better at all speed atm, esp. very low speeds. Was outturned in a downwards max turn rate spiral yesterday, the MiG-3 was simply able to turn tighter, pure and simple, there was nothing I could do.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Panthera

[Wolfram-Harms]

...there was nothing I could do.

 

...even with flaps or use of elevator trim?

[Panthera]

...even with flaps or use of elevator trim?

 

Yeah, didn't help.

[Mmaruda]

A few tips on mastering any plane in any historic simulation game:

 

1. Real life pilots tell tall tales and we only get to hear the story from the point of those who survived. That guy who crashed and killed himself in the "best WWII fighter ever build" because the engine stopped working out of nowhere will be silent forever. It's nice to read and expand your knowledge, but that knowledge rarely contains raw numbers and scientific equations that would help the devs improve the FM in direct manner. Take it all with a grain of salt, if it's close to what the plane is said to have been, it's good. It's only a game after all.

2. Make sure you know how to fly that kite and I mean practice. Don't practice dogfights, practice flying, looking at your instruments, maintaining your power and engine health, doing precise manoeuvres and once you got that covered, go fighting.

3. Expect to lose. The AI flies better than you, it doesn't have a budget joystick with spiking pots and doesn't have to worry about optimising their TIR profile. The online crowd on the other had are a bunch pros who have been playing this genre for decades so if you go to TAW of WOL on a Friday evening it's basically like playing Street Fighter against Daigo Umehara (google EVO moment 37, if you don't know what I'm talking about).

4. Honor is for suckers, pick off easy prey and avoid equal fights - Hartman didn't become top ace of all time by being chivalrous.

5. If you get rekt several times in a row, don't push it, take break, do something else, maybe try a bombing milk run in a Peshka, or just go for a walk - avoid frustration, it clouds judgement, induces salt and then you feel like coming to the forum and complaining about FM bias or something being OP.

6. GIT GUD.

7. GIT GUD.

8. Spoiler

 

 

Now jokes aside (not really, but bear with me), the Mig-3 is well... the greatest and bestest plane in the game, don't let anyone tell you otherwise even if you realise yourself that it's just a budget Russian 190 knock-off. The only other machine that comes close is the La-5 but that is mostly due to the fact that it can do supersonic and go into space. But the Mig-3 is the proper kind of wild animal and seriously questions why the P-51 got to be called Mustang in the first place (blame ignorant capitalist swines!). Flying the Mig-3 takes balls. Hell, just taking off in this thing takes balls (I assume you do the proper manly routine with going full mixture and not the sissy 50% auto setting right?)

 

Anyway, if you like the plane and are a true believer in the Mig-3s power, just fly it. Try different things in it, fly it like you stole it, fry the engine a couple of times to see what it can take. And when fighting, stay calm, use all the dirty tricks you learned and trust your instincts. Oh and use the twin .50 cals - the only way to go.

[Danziger]

Oh and use the twin .50 cals - the only way to go.

Unless you want to be stealthy. The 20mm loadout has no tracers.

[Cybermat47]

5. If you get rekt several times in a row, don't push it, take break, do something else, maybe try a bombing milk run in a Peshka, or just go for a walk - avoid frustration, it clouds judgement, induces salt and then you feel like coming to the forum and complaining about FM bias or something being OP.

Can't agree more with this, great advice.

 

Yesterday, all my F-4 softies in MP were fruitless, with only one ending with me in my aircraft. I took some breaks to do ground attack in the E-7. 5+ ground kills in all of them, landed twice, bailed out once, and only died once. Much more relaxing and fun than just frustratedly looking for muh air kills.

Edited February 23, 2018 by FFS_Cybermat47

[Zirashi]

But the Mig-3 is the proper kind of wild animal and seriously questions why the P-51 got to be called Mustang in the first place (blame ignorant capitalist swines!). Flying the Mig-3 takes balls. Hell, just taking off in this thing takes balls (I assume you do the proper manly routine with going full mixture and not the sissy 50% auto setting right?)

The main reason the MiG is so rough on take-off is the poor design choice to link tailwheel steering with rudder pedal input forcing the pilot into an extra balancing act of having to counter normal takeoff turn tendencies with rudder while also trying avoid activating the steering and accidentally ground spinning the thing.

 

On the P-51, it was rumored (I've never seen any proof my self) that the engine was so powerful and had so much engine torque that pushing to full power on take off could potentially roll and flip the plane over if done before enough wing lift was built up to counter the roll force with aileron. More concretely, it had that 2600km range, almost 13km ceiling, and 700+ kph max speed.

 

One is bucking caused by poor design. The other is bucking because it's overflowing with power. Which one sounds more like a Mustang? 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Zirashi

[Finkeren]

Actually, the MiG-3 and the P-51D with a V-1650-7 has the exact same power/weight ratio under take off power: 0.18 hp/lbs.