Developer Diary, Part 188 - Discussion

[ACG_Gromic]

Wow, nice! Thanks to everyone contributing (developers and private) to taking this series to a whole new level. It's amazing how far this has come (and is going).

 

+1 to 1/JSpan_Guerrero's post. The ability to to add decals on top of a naked version is sorely missed for those flying in a squadron environment. Yes, it's possible to create individual skins with individual markings but, most here are discussing this with a player base of maybe 10 or so in mind. Agreed, perfectly doable for those numbers but there are organizations way larger than that.

 

Cheers

 

Grom

 

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Everyone,

 

There is lots of 4K content already available in this special part of the forum. https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/forum/107-4k-skins-and-templates/

 

BHH has worked with the team on one particular plane and I have worked with ICDP on providing 4K templates for many planes. ICDP has also done many skins as have other artists. We have also worked with Panzerbar to make unique skins for airplanes. Eventually, we will leverage all this work into creating a standard in which there will be more official 4K skins.

 

Jason

 

What happened to PzBar?

[Cybermat47]

What happened to PzBar?

I was wondering this as well.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

There is nothing 'clear' about any sort of 'sour agenda' in MrFries' post.

 

-snip-

 

Also, since you've brought up excessiveness, how about *your* suggestion that MrFries should be banned (for 5 years no less!) for a post that contains no profanity or inflammatory language. Are you for real?

 

Apparently you haven't seen his incessant, whining, trollish and off topic [Edited] about how he doesn't get to be a tester, begging like a child for DDs and everything else, crying to people who "get things early" because he doesn't realize testing is a job (dare I say this is probably a good reason for him not being granted a spot?)...

 

It has gotten beyond old. It isn't funny. It isn't entertaining. As a normal forumgoer, it's extremely annoying. I can only imagine how annoying it is for a producer or developer.

 

A ban is more than fair.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Bearcat

[Mac_Messer]

So if I have 4K skin installed (and choosen to fly with)- and it is not restricted by host - the next guy in the same server not having the same skin, does he receive my skin packet or not?

[Pupo]

So if I have 4K skin installed (and choosen to fly with)- and it is not restricted by host - the next guy in the same server not having the same skin, does he receive my skin packet or not?

 

No.

 

If you are using a custom skin  + it is not restricted by the host  + the next guy has it installed                   = he will see it.

If you are using a custom skin  + it is not restricted by the host  + the next guy does not have it installed  = he will NOT see it.

If you are using a custom skin  + it Is        restricted by the host  + the next guy has it installed                   = he will NOT see it.

 

 

In summary, for a custom skin to be seen online, both players must have it installed, and the server must not restrict it.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Pupo

[216th_Jordan]

What Pupo wrote is true. However for the last point: if the server doesn't allow custom skin you will not be able to select them (see Wings of liberty)

Edited February 19, 2018 by 216th_Jordan

[Livai]

If you are using a custom skin

 

+ it is not restricted by the host

+ the next guy has it installed = he will see it. If you are using a custom skin

+ it is not restricted by the host

+ the next guy does not have it installed = he will NOT see it. If you are using a custom skin

+ it Is restricted by the host + the next guy has it installed = he will NOT see it.

 

In summary, for a custom skin to be seen online, both players must have it installed, and the server must not restrict it.

 

 

Interesting case what if

 

For example the server allow 84x playesr on the same server:" We have a group of 42x players that fly together as a team and all install the same and use the same skin = "plane skins what are high bright colored". If custom skins are not blocked by the server operator all 42x player who use the same skin see each other in high bright colored planes. ! And the remaining player don't see the 42x players with high bright colored planes because they don't have this plane skins installed. The remaining 42x players only see the default skin? Correct?!  

[Psyrion]

That´s correct. Although I would argue that even if people did this the advantage would not be very great. Firstly because you cannot identify colours from a great distance. Once you´re close enough to see the colours you´re probably able to identify your mate anyway. My second argument is kinda weak but I don´t think there are many people interested in doing this. Most people I´ve met playing this game are interested in the planes and want a good fight. 

I don´t see how everyone could download every skin when they enter a server. I have something like 10 gigs of skins in my folder    . I´m also glad I don´t have to see some of the wierd skins people make (no offense), just check out war thunder live   .

 

 

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

There is one thing that the developer can do if it is not a lot of work for those of us who have custom skins for the squad.

 

The idea is that the game sets the default skin according to winter or not:

 

1) In summer, spring and autumn it puts gray by default.

2) In winter (white snow) the game detects that it is snow and defaults to the white winter skin.

 

As the simulator is now, if you wear a custom skin in winter (snow) the simulator defaults to gray. Therefore in winter you can not put on your custom skin, or the others (enemies) will see your plane dark gray on white snow.

 

On the other hand I think the official skins should be less, with the correct camouflage but without putting the aces and without marks and numbers.

 

A pair of green skins, two gray, two cream and two white. Total 8 skins and then in the simulator, in the interface of the menus, each one can put a brand, shield or number.

 

If we all load all the custom skins we would find enemies with this type of skins. : D

 

[Ribbon]

 

 

There is one thing that the developer can do if it is not a lot of work for those of us who have custom skins for the squad.

 

The idea is that the game sets the default skin according to winter or not:

 

1) In summer, spring and autumn it puts gray by default.

2) In winter (white snow) the game detects that it is snow and defaults to the white winter skin.

 

As the simulator is now, if you wear a custom skin in winter (snow) the simulator defaults to gray. Therefore in winter you can not put on your custom skin, or the others (enemies) will see your plane dark gray on white snow.

 

^^^THIS^^^

[Royal_Flight]

On the other hand I think the official skins should be less, with the correct camouflage but without putting the aces and without marks and numbers.

 

A pair of green skins, two gray, two cream and two white. Total 8 skins and then in the simulator, in the interface of the menus, each one can put a brand, shield or number.

 

This is exactly how it should be done.

User-defined numbers, letters or squadron codes as well as decorations like arrows down the side or yellow wing-tips.

Also roundels should be selectable from an appropriate list for each aircraft, so the Kittyhawk can have VVS, RAF, USAAF or AVG insignia, 109s can be Luftwaffe or in Hungarian, Finnish, Bulgarian or Romanian colours depending on model.

[Boris_CRO]

agree. Original skins should have numbers removed and skins should not be single pilot specific as they are now.

With better customisation like il2 CLOD had.

[Psyrion]

Um, I like the way skins are now.

[Frenchy56]

Um, I like the way skins are now.

[insert rude and demeaning post about conflicting opinion here]

[No601_Swallow]

In the original IL2 '46 - if memory serves, the decal system worked... But! It took a couple of really talented modders to make the decals look genuine and weathered. (But yep - decals would be great.)

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I support the idea as well, sign me up!

I support the idea as well, sign me up!

[Trooper117]

In the original IL2 '46 - if memory serves, the decal system worked...

 

Wasn't that a decal mod?

I seem to remember the game gave all the aircraft in your flight a basic number.

But you could actually also give all your flight an individual skin, that is what is needed for this version.

[Gambit21]

Wasn't that a decal mod?

I seem to remember the game gave all the aircraft in your flight a basic number.

But you could actually also give all your flight an individual skin, that is what is needed for this version.

 

Nah it was always there - they were very clean and bright though and looked funny if you favored weathered skins as I did.

The mod that made them more weathered looking I never saw as I'd quite flying IL2 by then.

[Trooper117]

I'm going to fire it up and take a look now...

[Pail]

 

 

This is exactly how it should be done.

 

Although there would be some skins available now that I (and no doubt others) would miss a lot....but it is the way to do it that would make sense for the purposes of the game and historicity.

[Pupo]

Nah it was always there - they were very clean and bright though and looked funny if you favored weathered skins as I did.

The mod that made them more weathered looking I never saw as I'd quite flying IL2 by then.

 

Despite all its defects, CloD really nailed this. There would be four layers to every skin, the first one being the actual camo, the second being a markings layer dependent on what your plane ID was, the third would be all the panel markings, and the forth layer would apply weather to the whole plane.

 

Granted, some custom skins had better weather and decals, and if you wanted, you could just turn off the in-game markings and the weather and roll with one of those. The only thing you had to keep were the panel lines of the planes, which kind of makes sense.

 

This, and the uber-powerful mission maker from CloD are the only two things that I miss in this sim. I have given up all hopes for the second one, but the first one, I belive one day the dev team will surprise us. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Pupo

[Gambit21]

This mission editor is about as powerful as I can imagine - not intuitive, but powerful.

[Jade_Monkey]

This, and the uber-powerful mission maker from CloD are the only two things that I miss in this sim. I have given up all hopes for the second one, but the first one, I belive one day the dev team will surprise us. 

 

What exactly was more powerful int he CLOD ME than in BOS? I never tried CLOD mission editor but the one in BOS is very powerful.

[Bearcat]

IIRC in IL2 you had to have the skin on your PC as well.. but because the skins were only 1M .. pilot skins were only 68k .. the skins were automatically downloaded to the cache and if you g=had a decent rig you barely noticed it. That was why often it would take a few seconds for the skin to appear.. the default skin would initially show until it downloaded to your cache. Can you imagine the lag if everyone had custom skins that had to be downloaded prior to mission start as opposed to getting the skin and adding it yourself before the mission. 

[Pupo]

What exactly was more powerful int he CLOD ME than in BOS? I never tried CLOD mission editor but the one in BOS is very powerful.

 

The CloD ME allowed you to script pretty much whatever you wanted in C#. Inside your mission you could create the craziest behaviors, and were able to track every single plane / player / AI and bomber, and program whatever you want with them. I managed to do some cool things on my free time, such as:

 

• Engine wear and tear. You were able to program planes to be persistent. If you abused the throttle limits for too long, you might have an unexpected engine breakdown on your 3rd flight.
• Weapon jams. I made a small script that would jam guns based on their overuse and the g load of the plane.
• Bomb areas. Objectives were completed based on the amount of payload dropped on a city.
• Destroying AI once they were too damaged. I had a mission where the goal was to destroy large He111 formations. To avoid He111 wandering off, if a He111 was too damaged to keep formation, it would suffer some critical damage.

 

All in all, the sky was your limit*. I did some really "fun" projects with it. Such as a level up arena, where you start with crappy planes and the more AI's you shoot down, the better the plane you can take, and a point based mission where you gained points only for completing objectives and staying alive. Some people did far greater things. I remember someone programmed an ENTIRE dynamic campaign into it. As in, you would launch a mission as a multiplayer server, and stuff would just keep on happening for you to take part. 

 

The great thing about it is that you didn't have to learn how to work with a specific program, or triggers or anything. All you had to do was a script in C#, a relatively popular and easy language to learn, and get a hang of the game's API. Meanwhile, the BoX mission editor, even if powerful, needs a 340 page manual and can't even be launched from the game. I'd like to take this opportunity to say thank you to all the crazy ones who actually learned the damn thing and keep providing us with awesome missions and campaigns.

 

(*Realistically, the terrible in-game performance was your limit.)

Edited February 21, 2018 by Pupo

[Ribbon]

The most powerfull editor i've ever seen is Arma3 eden editor using SQF language and now they are moving to arma4 with possible C++ or C# editor language following their new enfusion engine.

If il2 devs ever decide to improve their editor i hope it will be more like Arma editor, it's user friendly for beginners while giving endless options for advanced users which made AAA quality campaigns and mods.

In Arma editor i started as a noob and ended as advanced user making complex campaigns, using animations and scripting.

Il2 editor on the other hand i give up quickly cos i was too lazy reading that manual to be able just start using it, and i need to start something first to be hooked by it.

[15[Span.]/JG51Costa]

 

 

There is one thing that the developer can do if it is not a lot of work for those of us who have custom skins for the squad.

 

The idea is that the game sets the default skin according to winter or not:

 

1) In summer, spring and autumn it puts gray by default.

2) In winter (white snow) the game detects that it is snow and defaults to the white winter skin.

 

As the simulator is now, if you wear a custom skin in winter (snow) the simulator defaults to gray. Therefore in winter you can not put on your custom skin, or the others (enemies) will see your plane dark gray on white snow.

 

On the other hand I think the official skins should be less, with the correct camouflage but without putting the aces and without marks and numbers.

 

A pair of green skins, two gray, two cream and two white. Total 8 skins and then in the simulator, in the interface of the menus, each one can put a brand, shield or number.

 

If we all load all the custom skins we would find enemies with this type of skins. : D

 

 

+ 100

 

Saludos.

15(Span.)/JG51Costa

[Jade_Monkey]

@Pupo and @EAF_Ribbon, i had no idea you could script using C# in CLOD. That actually sounds very interesting and i would love to give it a shot if scripting ever comes to BOX.

 

Yes the Arma3 editor is insane, very user friendly for noobs and it can get complicated if you want to (never got too far).

 

Eventually it would make me very happy to have the editor in game, as switching back and forth (cant run the game and editor at the same time) is a bit of a pain and makes testing very arduous.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Jade_Monkey

[Ribbon]

@Pupo and @EAF_Ribbon, i had no idea you could script using C# in CLOD. That actually sounds very interesting and i would love to give it a shot if scripting ever comes to BOX.

 

Yes the Arma3 editor is insane, very user friendly for noobs and it can get complicated if you want to (never got too far).

 

Eventually it would make me very happy to have the editor in game, as switching back and forth (cant run the game and editor at the same time) is a bit of a pain and makes testing very arduous.

Yes having ability to use editor ingame is the most useful factor,when making missions 90% of time spent on it is testing and adjusting/fixing.

[CanadaOne]

This mission editor is about as powerful as I can imagine - not intuitive, but powerful.

 

  "Grrrrrr!"

[No601_Swallow]

The CloD ME allowed you to script pretty much whatever you wanted in C#...

 

And that was the problem (actually only one of the problems - given that you had to wrangle that sim like a deranged cowboy to get it to do even the most basic things - like spawning on a sodding runway - that we (as a squadron) wanted it to do, i.e. coops.

 

I really tried with scripting. I got as far as being able to string other people's scripts together and sometimes the scripts actually worked, but Gawd it was hard incomprehensible work. I still have nightmares featuring brackets and parentheses and semicolons and commas.

 

As I've written elsewhere, the ME in BoX is really just a way of writing scripted behaviour visually, using graphical 'MCU's representing behaviours and linking them with arrows to objects and other MCUs - it's like a cascading flow-chart of causes and effects, and once you get over the conceptual "what the hell...", it gets intuitive and - dare I say it - fun.

 

There's a load of great guides and intros available (the latest is a great Youtube serious by Vapor here) , super-helpful forum posters and a great ethos of cooperation in the mission building forum.

 

No more excuses, gents. Put aside a couple of hours to learn the ropes, construct a couple of basic experimental missions on one of the small maps, and then get building! 

Edited February 21, 2018 by No601_Swallow

[kendo]

Thanks. Will check out the videos. Made a few abortive attempts to get into this already. See if it clicks this time...

[Venom]

I thought most people are quite happy not being forced to play online with a bunch of WW2 planes covered in anime paintjobs?

That's indeed a very good point you made!

I get goose skin when I imagine how WT would look like with their anime custom skins visible to all. One anime fan would be sufficient to spoil the joy for the rest...

[No601_Swallow]

...All you had to do was a script in C# ...Meanwhile, the BoX mission editor, even if powerful, needs a 340 page manual...

 

That's a bit of a cheap shot. How many pages is a typical "Teach Yourself C#" book?

[Ribbon]

That's a bit of a cheap shot. How many pages is a typical "Teach Yourself C#" book?

It doesn't need to be that way.

With good user interface all you need is bare basics in any programming language to make complex missions.

 

Again Arma editor is the best example, you have units, triggers, waypoints, task creator, objects...etc with ability to sync them to each other and each of them containing condition subsections where you put very simple script lines (ammo, health, fuel..etc conditions) which deternime unit state after certain trigger is activated.

You even don't need to know single line of programming language to create very decent and fun mission while for more complex mission lines like //set fuel/health/ammo 0.3;// can be enough, the main part is logic and order with syncronizing objects/tasks/units/triggers between them.

 

Also devs provided list of script commands for each condition, animation...etc. for those who want create fully fleshed missions and campaigns decent of AAA titles.

[Royal_Flight]

now they are moving to arma4 with possible C++ or C# editor language following their new enfusion engine.

 

Wait, what? ARMA 4?

 

When did this get announced?

[BlackSix]

Guys, this is Il-2 Sturmovik Dev Diary, please, go to the Free Subject with any ARMA discussion

[Ribbon]

Wait, what? ARMA 4?

 

When did this get announced?

There were news leaked few months ago, and officially few days ago their producer Jay Crowe tweeted about Arma on new Enfusion engine, Arma 4!

Guys, this is Il-2 Sturmovik Dev Diary, please, go to the Free Subject with any ARMA discussion

Oh sorry!

[Pupo]

That's a bit of a cheap shot. How many pages is a typical "Teach Yourself C#" book?

 

Don't know, never picked one up. I understand that learning a programming language may be for some more complicated than learning a GUI. But there way more people in the world knowing how to program in C# (or any other OOP langauge that easily allows you to program in C#), than people that know how to operate the BoX GUI. Not to mention, the amount of resources and help available online is millions times higher. 

 

But we digress, my main point was that the CloD ME was incredibly powerful, the kind of power you can only unlock if you allow for scripting and a direct interaction with a in-game API. I'd like to clarify that I'm fine with BoX's ME. I don't use it, and never will, but I'm satisfied with the content people are popping out of it. Besides, BoX is a great game, I'd rather spend my free time playing it than spent tim in the ME.