BF1909-F4 engine management

[Wolf8312]

I know this is supposed to be basically automatic (prop pitch etc) but I wish to control the mixtures (etc) and when I press left shift and M and then press the mixtures buttons nothing seems to happen. In fact very little I press seems to work in this plane. Is there no way to take manual control? My engine seems to cut out a lot mid flight but I really wasn't pushing the throttle all that hard. Must be doing something wrong!  

Edited February 15, 2018 by Wolf8312

[=X51=VC_]

As far as I know, you can only enable manual prop pitch and radiators but not mixture. What do you hope to gain from changing it?

 

The engine damage limits on the F-4 are pretty strict but leaving everything in auto is fine as long as you know your ATA and times allowed at each setting.

 

I'm not sure what you're doing to cause it to cut out. I've only blown the F-4 engine once and I noticed the damage early, flew 10 minutes toward base and probably would have landed if I wasn't followed and shot down.

 

What I learned after that experience and asking here is that the 1 minute emergency power timer doesn't reset until you go back to continuous (1.15 ata) for something like 5 minutes. So if you go 1.42 ata for 30 sec, 1.3 ata for 2 minutes then 1.42 ata again you only have 30 seconds before you start risking damage.

[THERION]

Hi,

 

first you need to bind a key to toggle between manual/automatic engine management, then you can use your axis for mixtures as I assume you have already

assigned one for the mixture for other planes which do not have automatic engine management.

So, mentioning manual engine management you might also want to modify the prop pitch. Historically I think for the 109 this was done by a two-way switch,

so no axis there.

 

Again, mentioning historically correctness, I've red many books about real pilots (veterans of WWII) who actually flew those planes and almost the majority

said, that it was absolutely unnecessary for not to say obsolete to manually manage the engine - automatic settings were just fine as they were.

 

So, it might have happened that a pilot had to manipulate his engine and overriding the automatic engine management because of system failure etc. but

certainly not in combat.

 

If your engine cuts out it might be that you exceed the duration limit for emergency and/or combat power, so better check the specifications for your plane.

 

Cheerio

[Finkeren]

All German piston engines at the time had automatic mixture.

 

As do most of the other aircraft to some extend BTW. 

[Wolf8312]

It's not so much that I want to take control over the mixtures, it's just my engine is cutting out! Maybe my voice attack is inadvertently messing with the settings as I am attempting flight in a noisy living room! 

[=X51=VC_]

Well, if everything is in auto the only setting voice attack could accidentally hit to cause that is the engine off switch. Or I guess the throttle, but I hope you would notice if that was moving without your input. Just keep an eye on the ata gauge and cockpit clock. Not more than 30 minutes above 1.15 ata, not more than 1 minute total above 1.3 ata. The plane has plenty of power in combat mode, use emergency mode only when it's actually, well... an emergency.

[=SqSq=switch201]

One thing that kept cutting my engine without me knowing why was prop feathering. I kept accidentally feathering my prop on the Ju88 and it stops your engine, but I don't think you can feather on any of the single engine planes.

[Wolf8312]

I kept it a 1.2 ata and the thing still chokes on me the throttle is certainly nowhere near emergency temps! I don't understand what else could go wrong giving that the plane is basically automatic. Voice attack is set to off by button! It's suddenly in flight the gauges go all wobbly and the engine dies. 

One thing that kept cutting my engine without me knowing why was prop feathering. I kept accidentally feathering my prop on the Ju88 and it stops your engine, but I don't think you can feather on any of the single engine planes.

 

Well no I make damned sure to keep feathers well away from the engine but I thought that was just common sense!

Interestingly I flew this same mission yesterday and got all the way to the target (it's quite a way off) and was pushing the engine a lot harder than I am doing now!

 

Will try again and watch more carefully perhaps I zoned out!

Edited February 15, 2018 by Wolf8312

[=X51=VC_]

1.2 ata is technically combat power. 1.15 is max continuous. If you run 1.2 ata for >30 minutes I think it might be enough to risk blowing your engine. Not sure because I don't do that, I cruise at 1.1 to be safe and go straight to 1.3 for fighting.

 

Also, the temperature gauge on the F-4 doesn't correctly change to show oil temperature. I have noticed on summer maps I sometimes get oil overheat warnings in the technochat (I keep it off normally) but the cockpit temperature gauge looks OK (because it's showing water temperature). Another reason I cruise at 1.1 ata or sometimes less. I imagine 1.2 continuous on a hot map could cause issues that you wouldn't notice if you play HUD off.

[Wolf8312]

Lol nope happened again! Is it possible to just get an individually faulty airplane? I saw it coming this time as the dials began to wobble I turned the throttle as low as possible. When I was heading down the engines briefly came to life again only to choke once more, don't know if that info is any use!

 

Nowhere near 30 mins but that's interesting thanks maybe try even lower and 1.15 ! And yeah Hud is off because of VR!

[Wolf8312]

EDit- what the hell is going on! Either Adolf is supplying me with a continuous line of duff planes or I am doing something majorly wrong here! I was even lower than 1.15 and it still happened. Is it perhaps because I am still trying to gain altitude but am not supplying the engine with enough power?

[=X51=VC_]

What you're saying isn't really making sense are you sure you haven't switched either the prop pitch or radiators to manual? Might be worth uploading a replay.

 

Oh one more idea, are you playing on the max realistic settings where you have to wait for your engine oil to warm up before you take off?

[Wolf8312]

Well I just left it on default so have no reason to think it has switched to manual. Start on runway with a bunch of other planes already warmed up. Engine is set to 'warmed up' in settings. Maybe it is on maual will check the air library tutorial again its bound to be a simple explanation...

Edited February 15, 2018 by Wolf8312

[Wolf8312]

It's actually possible that when I have been saying 'pause' the propeller pitch has been switched by voice attack! I just had to change my pause button to something else because it constantly pauses the game when I say pretty much anything beginning with P!

Edited February 15, 2018 by Wolf8312

[Wolf8312]

It happens with the throttle on 64 percent checked with the Hud defiantly on continuous mode. Everything else is left on default/automatic didn't change a thing just let it do it's thing! Totally scoobied!

 

By the way when it happens causes the engine to blacken the planes windows!

Edited February 15, 2018 by Wolf8312

[unreasonable]

Record a track of your flight and post it here. Someone will be able to tell you what is causing the problem. Without that there is no way to tell.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Well, if everything is in auto the only setting voice attack could accidentally hit to cause that is the engine off switch. Or I guess the throttle, but I hope you would notice if that was moving without your input. Just keep an eye on the ata gauge and cockpit clock. Not more than 30 minutes above 1.15 ata, not more than 1 minute total above 1.3 ata. The plane has plenty of power in combat mode, use emergency mode only when it's actually, well... an emergency.

This is very restrictive, the in game time limits are higher than those:

 

In short:

 

1.30 ata is combat mode, will last 30 minutes as minimum, there is some random time after that. I think I once got to 45 minutes with it.

 

1.42 ata is the max emergency mode with 1 minute limit, but it can go a bit further as well, maybe 30 seconds more.

 

Now in between these settings you have also in between timers. For example I find 1.37 ata a good compromise, it gives a nice bit of power, but it will last at least 4 minutes, and a bit more. I once had it run up to 9 minutes!! (although this is rare, most of the time it will be around 6 mins before engine damage).

 

[=X51=VC_]

Yeah I know, I was quoting the strict limits because I read a few threads saying how easy it was to blow F-4 engine so first few times I flew it I treated it like it was made of glass. What you say is correct but you're always rolling the dice if you do that because chance of failure is random after the quoted time, but the strict time is 100% safe. Anyway, not the OPs issue it seems.

Edited February 15, 2018 by VC_

[Wolf8312]

Well problem solved it was the radiator. For whatever reason it must have been switched to manual though I thought in the Bf 109 variants the radiator was inclusively automatic like the prop pitch etc. Must have changed a setting because yesterday it was working fine I think. I guess radiator control can be changed via the difficulty settings but not the others?

 

Anyway every cloud has a silver lining I actually by having this problem ended up learning a lot about how to fly this plane and it's engine management.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Wolf8312

[Fidelity]

Record a track of your flight and post it here. Someone will be able to tell you what is causing the problem. Without that there is no way to tell.

This. Make sure technochat is on.

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

I thought in the Bf 109 variants the radiator was inclusively automatic like the prop pitch etc. Must have changed a setting because yesterday it was working fine I think.

 

E-7 has only manual oil/water radiators, others have automatic radiators.

Edited February 15, 2018 by NahkaSukka

[=X51=VC_]

Must have changed a setting because yesterday it was working fine I think. I guess radiator control can be changed via the difficulty settings but not the others?

 

 

E-7 has only manual oil/water radiators, others have automatic radiators.

 

There's a button that flicks the F-4 and G-2 radiator to manual control. It should be in auto by default though, it's never happened to me that things like that persist from one flight to the next. Glad you solved it, now don't touch that button

 

EDIT: if you feel the need to check what it's set to, there's a handle in the cockpit. See page 128 here: http://www.simulatedaircombat.com/Luftwaffe/sites/default/files/Chuck%20Il-2%20Battle%20of%20Stalingrad%20Guide.pdf

Edited February 15, 2018 by VC_

[Wolf8312]

Hey thanks for that guide VC I was looking for something like that!

[Wolf8312]

Strange. If I put it radiator on automatic it will automatically choke the engine sooner or later. I can actually see the needle moving towards the red line which is there to tell you if the engine is overheating. However if I switch to manual and control radiators myself the engine cools (line moves back) and everything is fine. No automatic for me!

 

Is this a bug?

Edited February 16, 2018 by Wolf8312

[Finkeren]

Strange. If I put it radiator on automatic it will automatically choke the engine sooner or later. I can actually see the needle moving towards the red line which is there to tell you if the engine is overheating. However if I switch to manual and control radiators myself the engine cools (line moves back) and everything is fine. No automatic for me!

 

Is this a bug?

Sounds like something is off. I don’t fly any of the 109s that much, but I must say that I never have overheating issues with rads on auto (except perhaps oil temp during very long climbs under combat power)

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

[Finkeren]

Wouldn’t want to be the engineer who had to make that fuselage construction structurally sound.

[CUJO_1970]

 

Thanks, I was wondering what the Bf1909 looked like.

 

Damn, that's not a bad looking ride, lol

[unreasonable]

Bs109

[Wolf8312]

If I press A for auto pilot, he also tries to kill me as well! Starts pulling me sideways to the ground! 

[D3adCZE]

Sounds like something is off. I don’t fly any of the 109s that much, but I must say that I never have overheating issues with rads on auto (except perhaps oil temp during very long climbs under combat power)

As I fly G2 mostly, I cannot talk about F4. But on winter maps, engine on full auto, I am overheating if I go full combat power(1.3 ATA AKA 100%) above 4km, I have to manage radioators manually over 4km.

[Willy__]

[D3adCZE]

What, why...109s were so beautiful. This is hideous.

[Finkeren]

You think that’s hideous? Have you seen the Bf 109V-21?

 

Looks like someone thought “man that Japanese Ki-43 sure is pretty. I wonder what it would take to make our ugly-ass Bf 109s look like one?”

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Finkeren

[BlitzPig_EL]

That's actually really cool.

 

I'm assuming it is powered by a BMW 801 of some sort or another?

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Pratt & Whitney 1830 SC-G

Edited February 19, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Wolf8312]

And here's a picture of a chicken!

[BlitzPig_EL]

Pratt & Whitney 1830 SC-G

 

Interesting.

 

Of course the BMW, Soviet ASh, and Mitsubishi Sakae, are all pretty much copies of the P&W.

Edited February 19, 2018 by BlitzPig_EL

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Interesting.

 

Of course the BMW, Soviet ASh, and Mitsubishi Sakae, are all pretty much copies of the P&W.

Well, this one was to be an Export Model and thus meant to work with the most Common Engines at the time, the Wright Cyclone 1820 9 Cylinder Single Row, and the P&W Double Wasp 14 Cylinder Tow Row. 

It would have been a competitor for the Curtiss Hawk 75.

[Finkeren]

Of course the BMW, Soviet ASh, and Mitsubishi Sakae, are all pretty much copies of the P&W.

 

Well yeah, in the same way all modern pistols are copies of the Browning M1900.