Scaling seems to be wrong in VR

[Xerox]

Hi,

 

is just tried IL2 BOS with my PSVR Headset connected to my PC via Trinus PSVR...everythng works great and is more or less fluent, but i have the feeling, I'm sitting in a tiny toy airplane.

 

The scaling of the whole airplane seems to be completely  wrong in my eyes. Has anyone had made the same experience?

 

In DCS World 2.5. everything is correct btw.

 

Cheers

Xerox

[BeastyBaiter]

Had that issue with the Samsung Odyssey before returning it, looks spot on with the Rift though.

[161snails]

+1 all a ok with rift

[OrLoK]

The 3dmigoto thread in this forum should help you.

 

I use it on the rift as i still feel a bit to big and, for me, it scales perfectly

[WIS-Redcoat]

It seems like IL2 is "hard-coded" to the IPD resolution used by the Rift and the Vive.  I fear that the HTC Vive Pro will also have resolution issues once it is released.

 

 

Hi,

 

is just tried IL2 BOS with my PSVR Headset connected to my PC via Trinus PSVR...everythng works great and is more or less fluent, but i have the feeling, I'm sitting in a tiny toy airplane.

 

The scaling of the whole airplane seems to be completely  wrong in my eyes. Has anyone had made the same experience?

 

In DCS World 2.5. everything is correct btw.

 

Cheers

Xerox

Edited February 14, 2018 by WIS-Redcoat

[Guest deleted@134347]

The 3dmigoto thread in this forum should help you.

 

I use it on the rift as i still feel a bit to big and, for me, it scales perfectly

 

what are you IPD settings for Rift in the mod?

 

it's an interesting observation you're stating, I want to try it out your way to see if there's a difference.. i don't particularly have a frame of reference to the cockpit sizes, never been in one..

[dburne]

Hi,

 

is just tried IL2 BOS with my PSVR Headset connected to my PC via Trinus PSVR...everythng works great and is more or less fluent, but i have the feeling, I'm sitting in a tiny toy airplane.

 

The scaling of the whole airplane seems to be completely  wrong in my eyes. Has anyone had made the same experience?

 

In DCS World 2.5. everything is correct btw.

 

Cheers

Xerox

 

Is it correct in DCS 2.5 because you adjusted the in game IPD with that new feature in 2.5, or did it work at default setting?

[SCG_motoadve]

Real pilot here, have been in many Cockpits even a Corsair, the scale is spot on in IL2 BOS with the  Rift if you ask me, DCS in the P51 the wings looked kind of small to me.

[Guest deleted@134347]

Real pilot here, have been in many Cockpits even a Corsair, the scale is spot on in IL2 BOS with the  Rift if you ask me, DCS in the P51 the wings looked kind of small to me.

 

thanks, motoadve, I appreciate your feedback!

[SCG_motoadve]

I am really impressed with the work this guys have done for VR in IL2 BOS, its really amazing.

Hope they keep optimizing it.

[dburne]

I am really impressed with the work this guys have done for VR in IL2 BOS, its really amazing.

Hope they keep optimizing it.

 

Yes, it is absolutely stunning what they accomplished with their VR implementation.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Now if the optimization was remotely close to that, you could actually brand it "stunning".

 

It is torturing the CPU doubling the single thread demand. Dot scaling problems with aircrafts at range. No options in the graphics settings for texture-resolution, lightrays, clouds, contrast, nor land draw distance. Not pulling pixel dimensions from the connected headset, instead hard-coded. Strongly flickering dust that doesn't know its depth from taxiing airplanes. Without unofficial mods no competitive zoom, no way to fix the gfx artifacts of the propeller disk. Dual casting on mirror screen of the monitor, so you cannot capture live footage.

 

There is a lot to do to call it "stunning". There is a lot of room to fix and improve the (currently) bare-bones VR implementation.

Edited February 16, 2018 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[marklar]

I am really impressed with the work this guys have done for VR in IL2 BOS, its really amazing.

 

It's pretty much the same as in other cockpit games. I have not noticed anything that stands out as different or better. Maybe head movements limitations. No other game has this annoying feature .

[OrLoK]

Now if the optimization was remotely close to that, you could actually brand it "stunning".

 

It is torturing the CPU doubling the single thread demand. Dot scaling problems with aircrafts at range. No options in the graphics settings for texture-resolution, lightrays, clouds, contrast, nor land draw distance. Not pulling pixel dimensions from the connected headset, instead hard-coded. Strongly flickering dust that doesn't know its depth from taxiing airplanes. Without unofficial mods no competitive zoom, no way to fix the gfx artifacts of the propeller disk. Dual casting on mirror screen of the monitor, so you cannot capture live footage.

 

There is a lot to do to call it "stunning". There is a lot of room to fix and improve the (currently) bare-bones VR implementation.

AFAIK, its mainly stuff out of their control which causes us VR users issues.

 

Yeah, some issues could be tweaked but I find the VR support *stunning* 

 

YMMV.

[dburne]

It's pretty much the same as in other cockpit games. I have not noticed anything that stands out as different or better. Maybe head movements limitations. No other game has this annoying feature .

 

Obviously when comparing games it is very prone to personal perception.

 

IMHO 1CGS has done the better job with their VR implementation comparing to other combat flight sim, at least in my eyes.

 

As far as head movement limitation, I definitely do not like that and luckily for me I only play single player, so can keep that off by using custom settings or in case of stock campaign normal difficulty with engine management added.

[marklar]

IMHO 1CGS has done the better job with their VR implementation comparing to other combat flight sim, at least in my eyes.

 

What exactly is better in BoX? I played hundred of hours in WT and a few hours in DCS and for me VR implementation is pretty much the same in all three titles. You can zoom in BoS but on the other hand GUI has huge impact on FPS. No other game is so terribly optimised in VR. Just please point at least one VR related feature that is better in BoX.

Edited February 16, 2018 by marklar

[marklar]

 

 

no way to fix the gfx artifacts of the propeller disk.

 

Disable ASW. I agree with the rest of your post. 

[dburne]

What exactly is better in BoX? I played hundred of hours in WT and a few hours in DCS and for me VR implementation is pretty much the same in all three titles. You can zoom in BoS but on the other hand GUI has huge impact on FPS. No other game is so terribly optimised in VR. Just please point at least one VR related feature that is better in BoX.

 

I would consider DCS to be not as optimized as BoS for VR.

Granted ED are doing some good things, adding initial Touch support was a nice touch. 

But I think they need some better optimizations, especially in the Normandy map.

 

I guess a lot of this is personal perception as well, to me it just seems better in BoS and my performance is definitely better. I would note also I do not fly with the GUI active.

 

I have never played War Thunder so can not include it in my observations.

 

Edit: I would also add, before 1CGS officially released the VR support for BoS, I was already flying a lot - many hours in DCS VR. 

The day of release I grabbed the 1CGS update, and was quite surprised by how good it looked and the performance I was getting with higher settings. I was expecting to have to lower settings significantly, but did not need to all that much. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by dburne

[marklar]

I would consider DCS to be not as optimized as BoS for VR.

Granted ED are doing some good things, adding initial Touch support was a nice touch. 

But I think they need some better optimizations, especially in the Normandy map.

 

Normandy map is terribly optimised in general. Screen users complain about this too, so it's not a VR thing.

 

I guess a lot of this is personal perception as well, to me it just seems better in BoS and my performance is definitely better. I would note also I do not fly with the GUI active.[\quote]

 

I'd call it a bias .

I fly without gui too but you miss a lot of useful information when playing online. You get onscreen notification when enemy attacks your positions.

[dburne]

Normandy map is terribly optimised in general. Screen users complain about this too, so it's not a VR thing.

 

I guess a lot of this is personal perception as well, to me it just seems better in BoS and my performance is definitely better. I would note also I do not fly with the GUI active.[\quote]

 

I'd call it a bias .

I fly without gui too but you miss a lot of useful information when playing online. You get onscreen notification when enemy attacks your positions.

 

Nope, not a bias at all. Just my observations.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

AFAIK, its mainly stuff out of their control which causes us VR users issues.

 

Yeah, some issues could be tweaked but I find the VR support *stunning*

 

YMMV.

All the stuff I listed is in the developers' control .

[marklar]

Nope, not a bias at all. Just my observations.

 

Ok, so what they are? It's a genuine question. I read many times that VR in BoS is outstanding but no one is able to back this argument. I can list the zoom function. DCS does not have it, nor does War Thunder. If the head movement limitation was done properly I'd add this to the list. Maybe in the near future. What else? 

[dburne]

Ok, so what they are? It's a genuine question. I read many times that VR in BoS is outstanding but no one is able to back this argument. I can list the zoom function. DCS does not have it, nor does War Thunder. If the head movement limitation was done properly I'd add this to the list. Maybe in the near future. What else? 

 

The image looks better to me in VR in BoS than the image looks to me in VR in DCS. No way I can quantify that, just my own observation after spending many hours in both. Nor really sure how I can back that statement up to you. It is my personal opinion.  I still fly and like DCS as well in VR. I hope they can continue to improve their VR going forward. 

 

Performance is way better in BoS , especially in VR.  Just have a look over on the ED forums on all the threads discussing performance, especially in the VR section. Lots of threads discussing countless settings and adjustments to get an acceptable level of performance. Granted DCS is beautiful, especially 2.5 and Normandy. 

 

Btw, DCS does have VR Zoom, assignable to a button on the HOTAS, same as IL-2. 2x zoom. I have it assigned to both a button for momentary , and a toggle switch to have on and then toggle off when not needed. It also has the same zoom limitations as well. VR Zoom is in the UI Layer in controls.

Edited February 16, 2018 by dburne

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

There is more discussion about settings because its settings section is much more detailed.

 

I would want a "custom /advanced settings" button available for IL-2. We could drop the fps-munchers we don't need, which we don't see in VR anyway.

[dburne]

There is more discussion about settings because its settings section is much more detailed.

 

I would want a "custom /advanced settings" button available for IL-2. We could drop the fps-munchers we don't need, which we don't see in VR anyway.

 

I have always wished for more graphics settings, along with controller settings.

However in regards to the graphics , at least they have been adding more as time goes on, especially in the last year. Initially in the BoS Early Access days, very early on, they had more detailed graphics settings. Then they moved to just the Presets. No additional options, just the presets. We had AA but that was about it.

 

At least now we have a little more to choose from, and if they continue following the path they seem to have been on since Jason took charge it would not surprise me to see more coming down the pike.

[SCG_motoadve]

Just did a test.

Flying a 109, I have the Gladiator joystick with the 109 KG 12 grip.

 

Flying in VR  look at the joystick, look at the grip. then peak below the headset and look at the joystick, the grip looks about the same size as the one in my Gladiator.

 

So back to original question, scale looks good.

[ICDP]

Just did a test.

Flying a 109, I have the Gladiator joystick with the 109 KG 12 grip.

 

Flying in VR  look at the joystick, look at the grip. then peak below the headset and look at the joystick, the grip looks about the same size as the one in my Gladiator.

 

So back to original question, scale looks good.

 

Hardly definitive proof now is it

Ok, so what they are? It's a genuine question. I read many times that VR in BoS is outstanding but no one is able to back this argument. I can list the zoom function. DCS does not have it, nor does War Thunder. If the head movement limitation was done properly I'd add this to the list. Maybe in the near future. What else? 

 

This particular part of the forum doesn't deal in proof, just subjective opinion

Edited February 18, 2018 by ICDP

[Guest deleted@134347]

Ok, so what they are? It's a genuine question. I read many times that VR in BoS is outstanding but no one is able to back this argument. I can list the zoom function. DCS does not have it, nor does War Thunder. If the head movement limitation was done properly I'd add this to the list. Maybe in the near future. What else? 

 

i can tell you that in Il2 the ground objects appear larger than in DCS. I don't know if the size is comparable to the real-life but it is A LOT easier to sport and then shoot at tanks and cars in Il2 than in DCS. In DCS they are so tiny you barely have any time to align with them and if you manage to get one round in you feel like you succeeded in moving a mountain.

[Aloha-Snackbar]

I've created a support ticket about this, hopefully it'll get some more visibility and a official fix... or at least a dev comment :/

[ICDP]

They are a small team working towards the next big patch.  I would not image it will be a major concern at the moment.

[SCG_motoadve]

When you are at a base and you see trucks next to you, they seem normal sized.

[Aloha-Snackbar]

2 hours ago, ICDP said:

They are a small team working towards the next big patch.  I would not image it will be a major concern at the moment.

Sure, I'm just trying to ensure they are aware of the issue. As far as I can ascertain there has been no acknowledgement of it.

[Wolferl_1791]

On 2/14/2018 at 12:17 PM, Xerox said:

but i have the feeling, I'm sitting in a tiny toy airplane.

 

On the contrary, in the Vive I feel that the scale is about 5-10% too big. In some cockpits, I feel that the pedals are just too far away to be able to reach with my feet or that I'd have to stretch my hand quite a lot to be able to push the stick.

Some games have a 3d scale slider or even a .ini file parameter that you can change to tweak it to perfection. Maybe a new multiplier added on top of the IPD formula?

[Aloha-Snackbar]

7 hours ago, Wolferl_1791 said:

 

On the contrary, in the Vive I feel that the scale is about 5-10% too big. In some cockpits, I feel that the pedals are just too far away to be able to reach with my feet or that I'd have to stretch my hand quite a lot to be able to push the stick.

Some games have a 3d scale slider or even a .ini file parameter that you can change to tweak it to perfection. Maybe a new multiplier added on top of the IPD formula?

a tuneable "world scale" or IPD setting would make the rest of us with toy planes happy too!

[C6_lefuneste]

As Orlok you should try my mod:

I made an "IPD modifier" like because I found cockpit too small with my OSVR hdk2, but it will also work to reduce them. Modify the x6 variable in key section of d3dx.ini with a negative value.

By the way it also adds 10x instant zoom with the last in progress version (see at the end of the thread)

[Aloha-Snackbar]

2 minutes ago, lefuneste said:

As Orlok you should try my mod:

I made an "IPD modifier" like because I found cockpit too small with my OSVR hdk2, but it will also work to reduce them. Modify the x6 variable in key section of d3dx.ini with a negative value.

By the way it also adds 10x instant zoom with the last in progress version (see at the end of the thread)

I actually do use your mod  but its still not quite "right"...

I was wondering, can you explain how the "IPD modifier" works? does it actually move the "eyes" in the game? Or is there some other kind of trick?

[C6_lefuneste]

2 hours ago, Aloha-Snackbar said:

I actually do use your mod  but its still not quite "right"...

I was wondering, can you explain how the "IPD modifier" works? does it actually move the "eyes" in the game? Or is there some other kind of trick?

 

It depends :

• with the 6.1 version I move the output of a global VS shader used for post processing, so the global image is shifted to the right or the left, with of course an opposite direction for each eye. But this introduce some black areas because, as the global image is shifted after beeing computed, part of it is deplaced outside screen area.
• With the 7.x version I modify all Vertex shader that use "viewproj" matrix, in order to add a shift inside the process of computation, before the global screenspace scaling. So the computed view is shifted, parts outside screenspace are replaced by newly computed area => no more black bars.

But in both cases the effect done is to shift to the left or right the image of each eye. There is no rotation added, nor focus change. But it is enough to add a kind of IPD change. I do not know what is exactly done by rendering engines of games or software suite...maybe they are doing the same, or they have more complex algorithms...

Edited March 6, 2018 by lefuneste

[Aloha-Snackbar]

ah ok, so if im understanding correctly, its not changing the "perspective" or the "physical" position of the eye in game, just shifting the image?

 

that would explain why it works for smaller adjustments, but feels like im going cross eyed when i crank up the setting in your mod a bit too much  and no matter what setting my right eye is still offset too far to the right even to use the gunsight in a bf109 :/

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Aloha-Snackbar

[C6_lefuneste]

1 hour ago, Aloha-Snackbar said:

ah ok, so if im understanding correctly, its not changing the "perspective" or the "physical" position of the eye in game, just shifting the image?

 

that would explain why it works for smaller adjustments, but feels like im going cross eyed when i crank up the setting in your mod a bit too much  and no matter what setting my right eye is still offset too far to the right even to use the gunsight in a bf109 :/

 

 

yes. but if you want to change the scale, you can use the "w" variable with small change. But it will shorten or increase distance (regarding positive or negative zoom factor), maybe you can then try to modify IPD to fix that..

Edited March 7, 2018 by lefuneste

[Rataz]

I have the same problem.  In WMR the cockpit is little kid sized, like a little tykes car.    Zooming in doesn't help, nor does leaning forward, centering and leaning back.   Its playable but immersion breaking.

I know WMR is not supported, but with a little tweak it would be all good.