Which Wulf?

[=X51=VC_]

Just get both!

 

I guess the question is if you're interested in the rest of the Battle of Kuban content. There's some good stuff in there... the map especially.

That's the thing, I've realised I'm not really, and I already have the map in MP.

[216th_Jordan]

That's the thing, I've realised I'm not really, and I already have the map in MP.

A-20

P-39

Kuban Career (even for MP players this is going to be good I suppose)

Support of the title

 

So many arguments..

[-TBC-AeroAce]

A3 I think is a bit more nimble that A5. But I love the A5 with the smaller gun pods as they pack a mad punch for only a 4kph speed decrease.

 

D9 will be my bird of choice when it is out tho

Edited February 14, 2018 by AeroAce

[Wulf]

With BoK fairly imminent I'm considering my options for expanding my plane set. But I have to say, as someone who's mainly interested in single engine planes and online MP, I'm not that excited by the selection. The collector planes that go with it interest me much more in terms of variety, but then there's the Fw190A-5.

 

I want a Focke Wulf in my line-up eventually, I could just get the A-3 but I want to know how different these planes actually feel. Is the A-5 a straight upgrade or more of a sidegrade? Is the A-3 available and competitive in Kuban scenarios?

 

 

Save your cash.  Neither aircraft is much good in an online environment.  The A-3 is a bit more agile than its slightly bigger brother but can now be chased down by Yak 1bs and Migs, both of which will equal or out-perform the A-3 in any plane you choose to specify, including roll (the proposed new La 5 FN will absolutely slaughter the thing).  The A-5 promised much but unfortunately is even more of a disappointment than the most recent attempt at an A-3.  It's faster than the A-3 (so you can usually run away) but doesn't have the agility necessary to exploit the additional speed.  Apparently adding 6 inches to the length of the FW's fuselage destroyed its capacity to maneuver.  Why that should be the case I have no idea.  The sim it would seem gives with one hand and then takes with the other.

 

Just wait for the FN, buy it and go clubbing.  The FW is a lost cause, IMO.

[DD_Arthur]

  Neither aircraft is much good in an online environment. 

 

Eh?

[Ehret]

Eh?

 

Had to do a quick check myself after reading that...

On the summer Kuban map I could run +570km/h on the deck in A-5; in La-5 couldn't exceed 550km/h. Even A-3 is faster than boosted La, but not by much (around 5km/h). Without the boost the La is almost a sitting duck running at only 500-510km/h.

 

A patient La-5F driver can bother a 190, but only under 3km altitude, and the 190' pilot has to be oblivious to slowly closing ea.

La-5s can not fly much over 700km/h without risking losing control surfaces (ailerons rip first).

 

Overall the A-5 is better than A-3, but she needs manual control of cowl shutters, and tracking of engine's temperature. Maybe this is the problem?

Edited February 14, 2018 by Ehret

[Finkeren]

Come on Wulf: We have flown together, and against one another, plenty of times. You know exactly how capable the Fw 190 is in online combat, especially when working in pairs. Many a match where we have ranked up 5, 6, 8 kills without getting shot down. And I don’t think any of us can claim to be among the best fighter pilots.

 

I also know that you’ve seen the insane stunts that RAY-EU can pull. That guy fights so aggressively you’d think he was flying a Yak and not a 190, while he guns down multiple opponents in mere seconds.

 

The Fw 190 is awesome, offline and online.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Finkeren

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Come on Wulf: We have flown together, and against one another, plenty of times. You know exactly how capable the Fw 190 is in online combat, especially when working in pairs. Many a match where we have ranked up 5, 6, 8 kills without getting shot down. And I don’t think any of us can claim to be among the best fighter pilots.

 

I also know that you’ve seen the insane stunts that RAY-EU can pull. That guy fights so aggressively you’d think he was flying a Yak and not a 190, while he guns down multiple opponents in mere seconds.

 

The Fw 190 is awesome, offline and online.

 

Wulf is always in a 190 and he can fly it very well so I too dont get his post

[SJ_Butcher]

I agree. But let’s remeber that Jason doesn’t own the company, otherwise he’d have lead it a different direction long ago. He had to get 1C to invest in his dream to buy the name IL-2 Sturmovik. The Kickstarter wasn’t a kickstarter, 1C gave them the money already, the Kickstarter was to gauge interest in the game.

 

Anyway, Jason has to make equitable and economical choices for his backers, 1C, or they will make them. The company is Russian, and if memory serves right, they had the stipulation that the first few installments had to be eastern front, then Jason could move the title in the direction he saw fit... but that didn’t happen and it’s not because they can’t translate documents. Businesses are businesses and all anyone said for years here in these forums was “give us late war and USAAC/RAF aircraft and people will flock like crazy and spend money!” Well seems to me the people with the money agree and changed course accordingly.

 

I believe there is more interest in this community for N. Africa, Italy, 1940 France, and other theaters than there is for the pacific, and I gathered that from reading these forums. Just go where the money is, or where you think it will be.

All the people on my squad wants later planes, they like a lot the 44 Europe scenario, none liked the pacific

[216th_Jordan]

Wulf is always in a 190 and he can fly it very well so I too dont get his post

Me too, I totally don't understand it.

[Willy__]

The A5 needs more trim to be able to do sharp turns compared to the A3, but you can close the rads and get faster on the A5. With that said, if you are a lonewolf, you need to really pick your fights and be patient. If you are with a wingman and can fly coordinated, you should fear nothing, as a pair of 190s is able to handle anything that is thrown at them if the pilots are good enough. 

 

Plane wise they are very similar, you should be able to do the same things on both of them, it all comes down to personal preference. Since I'm a speed addicted I would go with the A5, but that just me.

 

About MP: the A3 gets picked more just because it was released a long time ago and more people has it; it's also featured on more maps compared to the A5, and thats why you see more A3 on the mp scene than the A5. With that said, I usually fly on expert servers (TAW, WoL, Coconuts expert). Finkeren and Wulf usually fly on the normal ones, where everything is so close together, with icons ON and whatnots. Its a not bad thing per se, but it can make a very biased vision of things and because of that you have to take things with the context in mind. Flying a 190 or 109 in a expert server is a bit different from flying in a normal one, and I'm not talking about FM wise, but more about Situational Awareness. Sometimes you dive on bomber only to get bounced by their escort later that you didnt see.... that doesnt happen on the normal server because you can clearly see that big label/icon... A russian player will never be able to run away because the german wont ever lose sight of it because of the icon, on the other hand, the german player will never be able to ambush a russian because he will always see it coming, and because of that, it makes flying very different from how it was done in reality.

Edited February 14, 2018 by istruba

[=X51=VC_]

Yes, but on expert you can also bounce people without them seeing you

[Willy__]

 

 

Yes, but on expert you can also bounce people without them seeing you

 

Thats the point, you should not dogfight on the 190. It was called the Butcher Bird for a reason.    

[Finkeren]

Thats the point, you should not dogfight on the 190. It was called the Butcher Bird for a reason.

I think that’s an over-simplification. The Fw 190 is a very capable dogfighter and can be flown very agressively. Difficulty level doesn’t really change that.

[Willy__]

I think that’s an over-simplification. The Fw 190 is a very capable dogfighter and can be flown very agressively. Difficulty level doesn’t really change that.

 

Yes you're right. But let me put this way: you should not be actively pursuiting dogtfights on the 190. You should get alt and then dive on the unsuspecting target, kill it and get back to alt or leave the area, thats simply the best way of using the 190 as fighter, even more if you are lonewolfing. You should dogfight only when you're forced to. Neeedless to say that without alt or speed the 190 is just a sitting duck, you can scissors all day long, but most of the times its only delaying the inevitable.

[=X51=VC_]

Yeah, but people say basically the same thing about the 109, or any plane that isn't a dedicated turnfighter. Hit and run is de facto optimal fighter tactic. I enjoy the 109 although I've had to readjust my expectations of it in IL2. But the control stiffening and low firepower combine to frustrate me when I try to play this "optimum" BnZ approach. Sounds like the 190 cures that.

[CUJO_1970]

If I have to choose, I take the A-5 over the A-3, simply because it is faster - and speed kills.

[Gambit21]

I think you are absolutely wrong there. Both with regard to the market and the intention of the devs to make a PTO title. They have talked far too much about the Pacific for them not to have any intention of doing it.

He is absolutely wrong

[GridiroN]

The A3 is more widely available on maps, but I prefer the A5 for the armour and engine boost system. It's highly effective at getting you out of gun range of Bolshies.

[SJ_Butcher]

A3 is a little faster than the A5, the last one is a little heavier but more armroed, with more load out options. I like both of them, to me they are practically the same

[Willy__]

 

 

A3 is a little faster than the A5

 

Wrong. 

[SJ_Butcher]

Wrong.

Wrong? Do you have any source? Because I have. Historically the A3 was a bit faster than the A5, so you are wrong

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

It all depends in the cowling shutter position. If they are full open the A-3 is faster I think, but if you close them the A-5 will be faster.

In Autumn conditions, at sea level with full open shutters, the A-5 has 546 km/h top speed without wing cannons. With them fully closed it's 579 km/h. You can have them open at around 23% without overheating, for a top speed of 571 km/h.

Edited February 15, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Willy__]

Wrong? Do you have any source? Because I have. Historically the A3 was a bit faster than the A5, so you are wrong

 

https://imgur.com/a/bcIzr

 

The ingame spec says they are really close; if you close the rads you get way faster on the A5 than the A3, just like Etendard said above. So, my point still valid, you're wrong. And I'm not gonna even mention the U17 mod with 1.65ata... 

Edited February 15, 2018 by istruba

[SJ_Butcher]

 

https://imgur.com/a/bcIzr

 

The ingame spec says they are really close; if you close the rads you get way faster on the A5 than the A3, just like Etendard said above. So, my point still valid, you're wrong. And I'm not gonna even mention the U17 mod with 1.65ata...

BS you pointed something I already claimed, no source or data that support your statement is equal to BS, by the way 1.65 ata is only active below 1k, and above that the A5/A3 is faster than the 1.65 ata

[Willy__]

 

 

BS you pointed something I already claimed, no source or data is equal to fake, I pointed real sources, you pointed mmm nothing

 

 

Oh god, whats up with you boludos ? I just posted the image from ingame specifications, it doesnt matter source A or B or whatever when you can get the data from the actual game, but I guess its okay, continue on your barbie world thinking you will be faster on the A3 

[KoN_]

Save your cash.  Neither aircraft is much good in an online environment.  The A-3 is a bit more agile than its slightly bigger brother but can now be chased down by Yak 1bs and Migs, both of which will equal or out-perform the A-3 in any plane you choose to specify, including roll (the proposed new La 5 FN will absolutely slaughter the thing).  The A-5 promised much but unfortunately is even more of a disappointment than the most recent attempt at an A-3.  It's faster than the A-3 (so you can usually run away) but doesn't have the agility necessary to exploit the additional speed.  Apparently adding 6 inches to the length of the FW's fuselage destroyed its capacity to maneuver.  Why that should be the case I have no idea.  The sim it would seem gives with one hand and then takes with the other.

 

Just wait for the FN, buy it and go clubbing.  The FW is a lost cause, IMO.

I tend to agree with the online enviroment .

[SJ_Butcher]

I tend to agree with the online enviroment .

Wait what? FW is the best plane in the game, every player who say the opposite is a real nooob, you can't catch a FW at same altitude, turn fast, have a great ability to hold energy and great firepower, I use the plane in bnz only and you cant catch me doing bnz

Edited February 15, 2018 by SJ_Butcher

[Willy__]

It really depends on the situation, the La5 can catch up the FW down low, and the MiG can do it at high alt. The La5 will have trouble to get near an A5 with the 1.65ata though. 

[Finkeren]

If the Fw 190 pilot has any time left on his emergency engine power, then a co-energy La-5 pilot won't catch him. A3 or A5 it doesn't matter.

[RAY-EU]

Thanks ... How mentioned the FW190 at high speed is much better , it deeps very well with the vertical stavilizator like the in bf109 trim , is the beast ! But You need ET=EP+EC is very good energy plane !

 

Energy Total = Energy Potential ( high altitude )+ Energy Cinetic ( speed) .

 

In 1935 Howard Hughes the aeronautical engineer and magnate who win with the race with his own designed plane H1 the plane racing aircraft in LA ans was the pioneer who inspired in part Kulrd Tank the designer to create and develope the FW190 by the way make posible a plane with many power hp to dive better with out any lack keeping many cilinders 14 in cofiguration star as more hp power for better dive speed .https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HughesH1racer.JPG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Hughes_H-1_Racer_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.jpg/1024px-Hughes_H-1_Racer_photo_D_Ramey_Logan.jpg

Edited February 15, 2018 by RAY-EU

[KoN_]

I think you are wrong about this. I think there is great excitement for a PTO title.

 

Personally I’m not a great Pacific fan and would rather see a 1939-40 Sitzkrieg/Battle of France title (or a 1944 Eastern Front one) but I think I’m in the minority. Apart from mid-late war Western Europe (which I’m personally not too excited about either) I think the PTO has the largest fan-base of any theatre in the flight sim community.

Anyway: Back to the Fw 190.

It will bring in the Yanks . more people more servers . 

[CUJO_1970]

Ive never been beaten in a drag race with a MiG at higher altitudes while flying the A-5.

 

The hardest aircraft to fight against 1v1 is the Yak-1B and it's not even close, but even then I choose the terms of the battle.

 

Most of the time I find myself dog-fighting online with Yaks and Spitfires as a courtesy to them, so that they will have fun on the server.

 

And Wulf, what are you talking about? - the last time we flew together in Focke-Wulfs we shot down 5 Yaks and a La-5 in a single sortie in about 10 minutes.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The FW190A-3 is now 50% off. So... pull the trigger?

[Wulf]

 

 

And Wulf, what are you talking about? - the last time we flew together in Focke-Wulfs we shot down 5 Yaks and a La-5 in a single sortie in about 10 minutes.

 

 

Sure, if you catch the enemy on the hop (ie 1000 m below you) you can make life very difficult for them, in a 190.  But as soon as another enemy enters the fight at a similar or higher altitude to you, your options shrink dramatically.  That enemy (Yak, LaGG, La or Mig or Spit) will probably have a solid speed advantage.  It will also turn better than you, climb better than you and, with the exception of the Mk V, (which we're now told is actually more like a Mk IX than a Mk V)  easily roll with you.  If you're in an A-3 at 3-4K the Mig, La and Yak 1b will catch you in a level drag race.  If you attempt a break turn they will turn inside you and kill you.  That's the reality.  Not necessarily the historical reality but certainly the in-game reality.

 

The A-5 has a better chance of getting away but turning that separation into an attacking option is another matter.  As noted previously, for reasons that escape me entirely, the A-5 is significantly less maneuverable than the A-3.   The A-5 has engine mounts that are 6 inches longer than the A-3 - that's essentially it.  Why that would so affect it's maneuverability I can't understand.  But if it actually did, it means the D 9, when we eventually get it, will be exponentially worse.

 

So yeah, I suggest the OP just holds out for the FN.  I'm sure it will be just wonderful.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Wulf

[Nightrise]

Sure, if you catch the enemy on the hop (ie 1000 m below you) you can make life very difficult for them, in a 190.  But as soon as another enemy enters the fight at a similar or higher altitude to you, your options shrink dramatically.  That enemy (Yak, LaGG, La or Mig or Spit) will probably have a solid speed advantage.  It will also turn better than you, climb better than you and, with the exception of the Mk V, (which we're now told is actually more like a Mk IX than a Mk V)  easily roll with you.  If you're in an A-3 at 3-4K the Mig, La and Yak 1b will catch you in a level drag race.  If you attempt a break turn they will turn inside you and kill you.  That's the reality.  Not necessarily the historical reality but certainly the in-game reality.

 

The A-5 has a better chance of getting away but turning that separation into an attacking option is another matter.  As noted previously, for reasons that escape me entirely, the A-5 is significantly less maneuverable than the A-3.   The A-5 has engine mounts that are 6 inches longer than the A-3 - that's essentially it.  Why that would so affect it's maneuverability I can't understand.  But if it actually did, it means the D 9, when we eventually get it, will be exponentially worse.

 

So yeah, I suggest the OP just holds out for the FN.  I'm sure it will be just wonderful.

If you get yourself in a bad situation with an enemy aircraft faster than you and/ or with more height you're gonna have a bad day in any aircraft. 

[Finkeren]

I don’t get this “well if I get bounced by an opponent in a higher energy state at low altitude, there’s nothing I can do”-argument. It pops up ever so often, but it is patently absurd. By this logic planes that turn well at low speeds will always seem to be the better aircraft - all other aspects be damned.

 

Yes, if you are caught low-and-slow in a Fw 190 and get bounced by a Yak with an E-advantage, your options are limited, well duh? However, if a Yak is coming at you swooping in at 600km/h and you are going 450 - not 275, then the situation becomes radically different. Not only will you be able to turn inside him, but you actually have a good array of options to choose from: you can try to high-speed turn fight him for a while, you can easily force an exploitable overshoot, you can make him drain energy while you yourself go into a shallow dive and gain the speed advantage to gain separation.

 

In short: Keep your speed up in the Fw 190. If you continously dip below 300, you really can’t blame the plane, when you get shot down.

[Dakpilot]

Sure, if you catch the enemy on the hop (ie 1000 m below you) you can make life very difficult for them, in a 190.  But as soon as another enemy enters the fight at a similar or higher altitude to you, your options shrink dramatically.  That enemy (Yak, LaGG, La or Mig or Spit) will probably have a solid speed advantage.  It will also turn better than you, climb better than you and, with the exception of the Mk V, (which we're now told is actually more like a Mk IX than a Mk V)  easily roll with you.  If you're in an A-3 at 3-4K the Mig, La and Yak 1b will catch you in a level drag race.  If you attempt a break turn they will turn inside you and kill you.  That's the reality.  Not necessarily the historical reality but certainly the in-game reality.

 

The A-5 has a better chance of getting away but turning that separation into an attacking option is another matter.  As noted previously, for reasons that escape me entirely, the A-5 is significantly less maneuverable than the A-3.   The A-5 has engine mounts that are 6 inches longer than the A-3 - that's essentially it.  Why that would so affect it's maneuverability I can't understand.  But if it actually did, it means the D 9, when we eventually get it, will be exponentially worse.

 

So yeah, I suggest the OP just holds out for the FN.  I'm sure it will be just wonderful.

 

There are some things about Fw-190 A3/(A5) that nothing will change

 

It is about 1 ton heavier than a Yak-1b

 

+-700 kg heavier than Mig-3

 

+-500 kg heavier than La-5

 

all at standard weights

 

(there are some slight real world disadvantages to weight and high wing loading that cannot be overcome by engine power in many 'combat' situations)

 

FW190-A5 is 100kg or so heavier and it is a fairly normal result that if you move C of G forward you do get reduced 'maneuverability' as a trade off 

 

Wulf may not understand (or want to consider) why that having engine mounts 6 inches further forward would have an effect, but physics does

 

But If flown within the performance envelope, Fw-190 is a great fighter(s) with very good handling, good situational visibility, great firepower, and can be very satisfying, even fun!

 

For that reason alone, if you enjoy aircraft at all, it is a 'compulsory' purchase if funds are available and you enjoy BoX series

 

some (few) peoples expectations of what it should do are unreasonable and best ignored

 

(I must have missed where we have been told that the MkV is actually a MkIX ? but let's leave answers to that for another thread)

 

Cheers, Dakpilot

[=X51=VC_]

The FW190A-3 is now 50% off. So... pull the trigger?

My thoughts exactly. Being tempted by the P-40 as well... topic for another thread maybe.

 

@Finkeren I sort of see where the "out of options" argument comes from. It's not about turnfighters being better but I would say having the advantage in turn is more important provided the loss in other areas isn't great. If the speed advantage is undisputed and overwhelming (think F4U vs Zero) I would rather be in the faster plane and how well the other guy turns is irrelevant. But making use of a relatively small speed/energy advantage against planes that also turn better than you is very hard work and can lead to a frustrating experience.

 

Back on topic, what's the consensus on the outer wing guns on the A-3? I'm licking my lips at the idea of a 4-cannon barrage and the speed loss looks small, but I bet you guys are going to tell me it isn't worth it.

[rolikiraly]

I don't think there is a consensus, it depends on personal style/preference. So far i haven't used the MGFFs much, as i'm pretty sure they would be useless to me, and i had thought it's the same for most other pilots, but since then i actually discovered that some 'aces' are using them all the time.

One thing to take into account however is that the default is the 2 cannons only setup (maybe it could be the other way), which in turn means that the official performance numbers (and perhaps some of the remarks above) probably refer to that variation. That being said, on some WoL missions for example, you are locked to have the MGFFs as well.

Anyway, i don't think it matters much when considering the purchase itself, as the armament is one of the best either way