How to land Me109 without turning on the ground in the end

[oho]

I can land a Me109 smoothly with full realistic settings. I have the tailwheel locked and pull on the stick to force tailwheel down, i use my pedals for breaking and steering, but before I can bring it to a hault it suddenly always turns so strongly (to the right)  that the wings are partially broken because they touch the ground. I can't get rid of this.

Any tipps?

[Herne]

do a little bit of a rudder dance jabbing the rudder first one way then the other. Let the aircraft slow without using brakes until you are under 100 kph. remember the 109 has toe brakes that you can use individually. This might seem obvious, unless you are used to flying allied aircraft where the brakes mostly work a little different

[SCG_OpticFlow]

I can land a Me109 smoothly with full realistic settings. I have the tailwheel locked and pull on the stick to force tailwheel down, i use my pedals for breaking and steering, but before I can bring it to a hault it suddenly always turns so strongly (to the right)  that the wings are partially broken because they touch the ground. I can't get rid of this.

Any tipps?

Go easy on the brakes. Also pull the stick while braking like in a 190. Try landing few times without brakes, flaps fully extended and see if you still tip over.

[BlitzPig_EL]

What is  your indicated air speed just before touch down?

 

Having too high a speed on your final approach is a very common thing that sim pilots do, for fear of going too slow.

 

Paradoxically I find the 109 to be one of the easier aircraft to land in the sim, which goes against all the reports since forever about it's poor ground handling.

[marklar]

What landing speed has to do with a plane turning just before it stops? It happens when the speed is about 5kph, not during a touchdown.

Edited February 5, 2018 by marklar

[BlitzPig_EL]

I know it does not make sense on the face of it, but none the less, a slower approach and touch down makes for a much more stable run out.

 

The ground loop issue is still on the wrong side of reality in the sim, you have to pay far more attention to when the aircraft starts to nod one way or the other and correct immediately to not have a ground loop.  In a real plane you would feel it before you saw it start to happen.

[oho]

Yes, the ground Loop is only on very low Speed, I even tried with full and no flaps - always turning. So I should do a rudder right and left quickly when this turn starts?

[216th_Jordan]

Possible that you brake with only one tire? Can you make a video of yourself landing and let it show your rudder work (put pilots head back)?

[BubiHUN]

The landing speed must be between 200 and 150 km/h. Keep the end of the runway in your reflexvisir. Just before you land, pull the stick backwards until the crosshair is slightly above the horizon.  When the undercarriage touches the runway, pull back throttle to 10%, then keep using wheel breaks: left - right, left - right, until you stop. While doing this, keep your stick pulled towards you fully. watch the speed indicator, the runway, and that little ball next to the speed indicator. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by -[HRAF]BubiHUN

[TP_Silk]

Another way to approach it is to keep the air flowing over your control surfaces by having prop still provide just a little thrust (say 20% or so) while rolling out then using the brakes (don't have both mapped to the same key) and small rudder inputs to keep the aircraft straight. A very common problem in sims is mapping both brakes to the same button and while this is fine for most Soviet aircraft (they have the so-called bicycle brake system) it is no use at all for German and some Russian aircraft (I-16, P-40) that have independent brakes for each wheel.

[ShamrockOneFive]

This might be obvious but.... lock the tailwheel?

 

The Bf109 is a handful on the ground. Unless I'm making a turn I have the tailwheel locked and am constantly on the left right brakes correcting any slip showing on the artificial horizon. You have to work fast.

 

Also EL is right that a slower touchdown seems to have an impact on how much the aircraft wants to snake back and forth and ultimately do a ground loop at the end of the runway.

[=X51=VC_]

You guys tap alternate brakes while landing? I thought this was a recipe for disaster, I use rudder only for these corrections and do intermittent braking with both together until the plane stops. I think the key is to not hold the brakes down, but do a kind of fake ABS on-off-on-off. You'll get a feel for it.

[TP_Silk]

I wouldn't say 'tap alternate brakes'. I mostly use equal braking, but during the final stage when the aircraft is slow it sometimes helps to just ease up on one side briefly to correct a possible tendency to spin. I just use any and all tools available to keep the a/c in a straight line. The main thing is not to over-correct at any point.

[sniperton]

before I can bring it to a hault it suddenly always turns so strongly (to the right)  that the wings are partially broken because they touch the ground. I can't get rid of this.

Always to the right? With the tailwheel locked and with no strong crosswind? If I were you I'd check whether the brakes function as designed, i.e. not only the right brake is engaged due to a wrong control assignment.

[Sgt_Joch]

You guys tap alternate brakes while landing? I thought this was a recipe for disaster, I use rudder only for these corrections and do intermittent braking with both together until the plane stops. I think the key is to not hold the brakes down, but do a kind of fake ABS on-off-on-off. You'll get a feel for it.

 

may depend on your rudder setup. I find the rudder reacts too slowly. Using brakes to slow down and alternating taps on left/right toe brakes to keep the AC straight, seems to work best for me. Works with all ACs btw.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Sgt_Joch

[unreasonable]

I know it does not make sense on the face of it, but none the less, a slower approach and touch down makes for a much more stable run out.

 

The ground loop issue is still on the wrong side of reality in the sim, you have to pay far more attention to when the aircraft starts to nod one way or the other and correct immediately to not have a ground loop.  In a real plane you would feel it before you saw it start to happen.

 

You might want to take a look at page 204: Spitfire under discussion (by someone who flies it a lot ) but same principle.

 

https://books.google.co.th/books?id=fkI62vT2Cm0C&pg=PA197&lpg=PA197&dq=spitfire+rpm+throttle&source=bl&ots=sF2ULmfpqL&sig=UAlB17XDaE5oC7Z9vC17gnoc0Xc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjTlePIpIzZAhUJ4o8KHYeVAao4ChDoAQg4MAQ#v=onepage&q=spitfire%20rpm%20throttle&f=false

Edited February 5, 2018 by unreasonable

[SCG_OpticFlow]

may depend on your rudder setup. I find the rudder reacts too slowly. Using brakes to slow down and alternating taps on left/right toe brakes to keep the AC straight, seems to work best for me. Works with all ACs btw.

 

Yes, that's how I keep it straight. The 109 currently has a tendency to lift one wheel at slow speeds (even during slow taxi). Once that happens its too late to stop the 180 degrees spin, your only hope is to cut the power and try to keep the wing from touching the ground. Keeping the tail wheel locked helps during taxi but doesn't prevent the spin from happening on landing. Hard braking during landing, especially at the final phase seems to make it easier to spin.

[Fidelity]

You need to use your brakes AND your rudder together. You need to pulsate your brakes while slowing down. On. Off. On. Off. Never holding a single brake for more than a second. Ideally you want to be braking equally with both sides. If you allow one side to gain momentum over the other you will not be able to stop the rotational effect that will develop. Once you speed gets very low your rudder will lose authority and you will need to rely on your brakes. Do not turn hard unless the speed is very slow at this point otherwise you'll just do a 360.

 

Oho, you should provide a video of your problem so we can identify exactly what is happening on your landing roll.

[Herne]

Oho I've attached a vid of me doing an emergency landing with the time stamp set to the landing part. Just watch until I clear the runway.

 

https://youtu.be/_UZpzTEF4VI?t=3m46s

[=X51=VC_]

I know that I will be tarred and feathered for saying this, but I've got my 109 brakes set up 'Soviet style' with a button on my joystick. Toward the end of the rollout I just hold the button down and steer gently with my feet (rudder pedals). Super easy.

 

I have 3 buttons for 109 brakes, one for each and one for both (same button as VVS plane brakes). That way if I know I want both I avoid accidental input issues with not pressing two buttons at the same time. But I don't have pedals so I have to compromise somehow.

[Oubaas]

I'm using toe brakes and pulsating them on and off, maybe a quick jab on one or the other as necessary, and I get on the rudder immediately at the first sign that she's wanting to drift. I also don't cut the throttle all the way until I'm stopped. Doing it this way, I land in a straight or straight-ish line every time, no troubles.

 

I also don't haul all the way back on the stick, just maybe halfway. If you haul all the way back, trying to employ rudder to correct isn't as effective. Half to three quarters of the way back works better, and feel what's happening as you go, letting off on the stick or pulling back harder, depending on what's needed.

[Lensman]

I land the bf 109 F4 nearly every day and never ground loop.

I come in straight, keep the ball centered, FULL flaps, engine revs fully retarded, STALL onto the ground from a few feet up.

As soon as I touch down I touch nothing and let it roll. If it drifts sideways then apply a small amount of rudder. If it's REALLY going sideways and you're on the runway and not the grass then counter the turn with VERY GENTLE braking on the side opposite the turn. I keep the stick centered in both axis.Tail wheel locked. Do NOT unlock the tail wheel unless you're taxing and even then very sparingly.

Only when below 50 kph can you risk full braking with both pedals.

I NEVER EVER ground loop on landing. NEVER!

(Taxing is a different matter but never landing or taking off.)

[Kalthios]

Keep the nose pointed close to the direction you are traveling. If it points too far to the side the plane spins out of control. I practiced by accelerating to take off speed and then slowing back down going up and down the runway, no need to take off and land. After you get the hang of that then work on landing. 

 

Spinning uncontrollably while taxiing is caused by making the plane spin faster than you can stop it with opposite rudder and the amount of power you are using. Practice making turns on the runway by using throttle, rudder, and brakes.

 

Also keep in mind that the planes have default trimmings applied. For example, the Lagg-3 has about ~23% yaw to the left and ~67% pitch down.

[ShamrockOneFive]

You guys tap alternate brakes while landing? I thought this was a recipe for disaster, I use rudder only for these corrections and do intermittent braking with both together until the plane stops. I think the key is to not hold the brakes down, but do a kind of fake ABS on-off-on-off. You'll get a feel for it.

 

I do but only after the speed has dropped considerably. It's the 100-60kph zone where things seem to get squirrely and that's when I tap the breaks left and right as needed. It's definitely a pulsing rather than standing on or holding them.

 

It's interesting reading the thread and seeing how many solutions there seemingly are to the same problem

[Blackhawk_FR]

Don't know if it has been said: Of course yes lock tailwheel, but also pull your stick back. It push the tailwheel against the ground (which is locked, so it goes really straight). 

 

You can also taxi with tailwheel locked. If you need to turn, put some power (30-50% it depends), and push the stick. It's really stable.